Lack of Resouces...

[Last Conformist]

Please. Just that aluminium is a common component in the earth's crust doesn't mean that commercially usuable ores are. For practical purposes, aluminium is alot harder to get by than iron.

[MartynC]

Also playing on a huge map, only 2 tiles of Oil, both on the same island (that i don't control!), only about 10 tiles apart, makes me very angry!!!!

[Melboz99]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Please. Just that aluminium is a common component in the earth's crust doesn't mean that commercially usuable ores are. For practical purposes, aluminium is alot harder to get by than iron.

Actually, I don't think the ores are too hard to come by, though I could be wrong.

What I learned in Materials Science class is that the refinement process (via electrolysis) uses so much electricity that it is almost always done in places where there is cheap hydro-power.

Although, even though the earth is over 5% iron, I know we have very little useable ore in this courntry, though we are developing new methods for refining the ore we do have.

You could be right, but it just doesn't completley agree with what I learned in Materials Science.

Dan O.

[Last Conformist]

I'm right.

Very much of those 8.23% of the earth is spread out in concentrations that are not commercially interesting, which problem is reinforced by the energy-intense extraction cost - since you're likely gonna have to ship the stuff to Norway (frex), you really don't want to have most of your shipments consist of silicium oxides.

Iron is simply more commonly found in high concentrations (pure magnetite is something like 80% iron by weight!), in addition to being simpler to extract.

[Melboz99]

Yeah, we ran out of pure magnetite here in the states years ago. Since then, states like Michigan have been working hard trying to refine some much lesser qualities of Iron.

Wouldn't they be able to stip-mine aluminum much the way they do gold? I saw something on the TV one day about how they mine gold these days. They basically dig up 100s of cubic acres of soil and rock, extract the gold, and put the dirt back, with top soil on top. I hear they get more gold that way in a year than what existed (refined) on the earth 100 years ago.

All in all it's amazing how cheap metals are as it is. I'm in a cost estimating class, and the value we use for stock steel is only $0.25 USD per pound. That's not bad at all for what your getting. Of course, add cobalt as an alloying ingredient, and the cost goes up exponentially.

Funny how I never heard the fact that aluminum isn't frequently found in high densities in that materials class. The instructor made it sound like high refinement costs were the only reason for aluminum's price.


Dan O.

[Cerbykins]

Maybe you guys should play the DYP mod some more

[Melboz99]

DYP?

[Cerbykins]

'Double Your Pleasure'. Insane numbers of techs, resources, units....possibly a little TOO complex for the likes of me
To the best of my knowledge, a cut-down version is built into PTW anyway...?

[Mad Bomber]

Re: Lack of Resouces...

Originally posted by Melboz99
Hey all. I've been playing a builder game on a huge map. I'm really beginning to wonder about Firaxis.


Do you guys know what the third most abundant element in the earth's crust is? It's aluminum. Yes, right next to oxygen and silicon is alumimum. Thus, is the most abundant metal on the earth......

Although I agre that Al is much more prevelent than the game suggests, I must disagree with your assertion that its the third most abundant element, especially when you do not list Hydrogen above Oxygen and Silicon. Also it should be pointed out that much of the metal that does exist is located in the molten core of the earth, which is not currently available for consumption.

[Blademun]

FYI

The largest source of Aluminum actually comes from French Guiana (and neighboring countrys) in Northern south america. Aluminum comes, basicly, from certain kinds of clay, and they have alot of that clay with high densitys of aluminum in that part of South America. As a bonus, there are several rivers running from a interior rain forest that provide lots and lots of sources for Hydro-power. That large source of Aluminum is also one of the reasons that France bases its Space industry there.

(Of course, the most important reason is because it is close to the equator, and costs millions of dollars less to launch something from the equator then it does in the Temperate areas. ((thus why Americas space pad is in Florida, Russias is in Kazahkastan...)) I think because Centrifical force is stronger along the equator, and helps fling stuff off the planet. Not sure on that though!)

I also heard you could also get just about every imaginable resource and metal out there..from sea water. Have fun trying!

[Melboz99]

Re: Re: Lack of Resouces...

Originally posted by Mad Bomber


Although I agre that Al is much more prevelent than the game suggests, I must disagree with your assertion that its the third most abundant element, especially when you do not list Hydrogen above Oxygen and Silicon. Also it should be pointed out that much of the metal that does exist is located in the molten core of the earth, which is not currently available for consumption.

Actually, I'm looking at a periodic table right now.

Under the heading "Elemental Abundance In the Earth's Crust" is the list of the top ten, as follows.

1. Oxygen
2. Silicon
3. Aluminum
4. Iron
5. Calcium
6. Sodium
7. Magnesium
8. Potassium
9. Titanium
10. Hydrogen

Of course this is not in the amount of atoms, but rather mg per kg of crust. Hydrogen not having any neutrons, only one electron, and one proton is very light. How much there is in atoms I have no clue, but in weight it is the tenth most common element in the earth.

As for the molton core thingy, technically, the core is made up of uranium (in theory) but if you refer to the mantle that is under the crust, well I think there is more of everything down there, not just aluminum. Besides, what is in the mantle makes no difference to the stated list, which is the most abundant elements in the earth's crust, not mantle.

Dan O.

[Mad Bomber]

Re: Re: Re: Lack of Resouces...

Originally posted by Melboz99


Actually, I'm looking at a periodic table right now.

Under the heading "Elemental Abundance In the Earth's Crust".....
Dan O.

I apologize, I failed to read the statement that you were specifically discussing the earth's crust. (it's been a while since I took earth science)

As for the Core I found this info on:
www nineplanets.org/earth.html

The core is probably composed mostly of iron (or nickel/iron) though it is possible that some lighter elements may be present, too. Temperatures at the center of the core may be as high as 7500 K, hotter than the surface of the Sun. The lower mantle is probably mostly silicon, magnesium and oxygen with some iron, calcium and aluminum. The upper mantle is mostly olivene and pyroxene (iron/magnesium silicates), calcium and aluminum. We know most of this only from seismic techniques; samples from the upper mantle arrive at the surface as lava from volcanoes but the majority of the Earth is inaccessible. The crust is primarily quartz (silicon dioxide) and other silicates like feldspar. Taken as a whole, the Earth's chemical composition (by mass) is:


34.6% Iron
29.5% Oxygen
15.2% Silicon
12.7% Magnesium
2.4% Nickel
1.9% Sulfur
0.05% Titanium

[spy14]

This is getting complicated. If less aluminium (english spelling!!) than is realistic equals better gameplay then so be it.