Endgame Moan

[vmxa1]

Not then, but later. Hitting a civ that had over 70 units in one city and it was not the capitol.

Sometimes watching as infantry armies get ground under counter assualts of scores of calvs. Not tedium, just agony.

[Theseus]

Hang on, hang on... vxma1, I think you are confirming something that I saw in my practice Celts game before AU 502.

I played on deity, and had none of the early resource trinity. Quite a bee-yatch... I did take them one by one, but, IIRC, this allowed the development of a KAI two civs distant from me.

When it was their turn (I don't remember who), I took a chokepoint city and loaded it up with my typical mid-game mix: a 3xMusket Army, prolly two Musket+2xMedInf, assorted Muskets, MedInfs, Longbows, etc.

Now, typically, that many Armies just won't get attacked... but the KAI was far enough ahead to have a large and fine military, IOW many many Cavs. AND THEY ATTACKED!!

And you're telling me they'll even go after Infantry Armies, given sufficient numbers??!!

So the problem isn't that the AI won't attack Armies, hmmm?? Rather that the total strength comparison is out of whack?

Well, fine then: All the more reason to face off against KAIs.

[vmxa1]

Well the AI will not go after a full health army in the field. It will attack armies in cities, go figure. It will attack armies in the field if they are damaged.

You can even use a bunch of armies to force the AI to follow a path you want them to and lead them into a trap. The armies can get in their ZoC shots and reduce HP's along the way.

If you have enough armies, you can have some that are stacked, kill damage units as they go by, very nasty.

You need at least 10 armies to make it work well. Calv armies are 4x are great for this and you will have lots of them.

BTW Theseus, I wonder now about using mixed armies in C3C. I know that some of the benefits apply only to armies that are homogenous. I don't know if it applies to one move units or not.

[Theseus]

Yeah, there seems to be an anomally there too, re Armies in the field versus in cities.

What do you mean in the last paragraph? I've done mixed unit one-movers, and they are still two-move Armies.

[vmxa1]

I am not sure what the impact is, only that I have read many top players mention this effect:

"So, if you load an army with all units the same type (as I've done in all cases so far in this game) and supposing those units are 6/3/3 (i.e. Cavalry) then:

Attack bonus with:
Neither Pentagon nor Military Tradition: (6+6+6)/6 = +3
Pentagon only: (6+6+6+6)/6 = +4
Military Tradition only: (6+6+6)/4 = +4 (rounded down)
Both Pentagon and Military Tradition: (6+6+6+6)/4 = +6

With Pentagon and Military Tradition, assuming you load 4 units of the same type into each army, the net result is to simply double their attack and defense stats, because the bonus is (4*X)/4 = +X Which makes a 4-Cavalry army into a 12/6/4 unit."

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Well I invaded many civs that had over 800 units and 1200 is not uncommon. I attacked one civ (Germany) in the ancient times when they had 8 cities and kill nearly 800 units. Ain't sid fun?

Thats about the time I'd rather beat my head against the wall, because doing that would be more fun than sending those units one at a time into battle.

Please Sid, for the love of God, streamline combat...

[Theseus]

Sorry, vxma1, still not sure what the confusion is.

The math you quote is all correct... for mixed-use Armies just replace 6+6+6[+6] or 3+3+3[+3] with the appropriate values, and divide by 6 or 4 as appropriate. For movement, add 1 to the slowest unit.

Thus, with HE and Pentagon, an Infantry+Musket+2xSwords Army is:

Attack:
Infantry-9
Swords-6
Musket-5

Defense:
Infantry-14
Musket-8
Swords-6

And the Army has 2 movement.

Got it?

And itsn't friggin' AWESOME??!!

[Cerbykins]

Solutions - animations off, continental rally points, stack moving and a little co-ordination. All readily available
Arty could do with stack bombard, but if the game is set - may as well leave the arty at home and take the tanks out for a joy-ride
Armies = too good to be true, AI needs a little brain on that one (or at least some arty )
Math = armies = waaaaaay too good to miss

Voila - no need to moan