Cultural Conversions/Rebellions

[Fistleaf]

According to the formula, its x2 if enemy has more culture in this city, always the case unless it was your city, x (ratio of total enemy culture versus your total culture), resistors count as double, x2 if rioting. Also, the nearer the city is to the enemy's capital, the faster it will flip.

[bongo]

Remember that it never flips the first turn. Often that turn is enough to get rid of resistance.

According to the formula, enough troops will completely remove the change of a flip.


What I dislike most with the current model is that your troops just disappear. FLipping itself seems logical enough, but your troops should have a change of survival (based on the number of troops, their strength, the size of the city, the tech level of their mother civ etc.)

Did some calculations in a PBEM once and found that after starving a city down to size 1, I still needed 10-15 units to completely prevent a flip. I don't see how a size 1 population could realistically hope to overwhelm a 10 unit strong state-of-the-art garrison.

[QuestGAV]

Thanks guys, I'd imagine that between all of the suggestions here I'll at least get a leg up on the competition. Pop rushing and worker starving seem especially useful as does changing the rules to allow captured cities to retain their culture. I'm quite partial to communism in late-game war mongering as it is, this only solidifies that.

While I was waiting for your advice, I played a game yesterday on monarch with corruption and cultural conversions turned off and the AI aggressiveness turned down a notch. It had a really strange effect on the AI, it nearly played dead. On a huge map with 15 opponents, none of the opponents were remotely competitive with me (I had 30+ cities vs. 10-12 of the top AI civs without any wars stared). There was none of the normal aggressiveness that I had seen in previous games at monarch, even ones with the aggressiveness similarly toned down. The AI civs seemed to have no desire to explore beyond the continent we were on and as far as I could tell were not trading technologies at all as I was far ahead of all of them. Has anyone seen this before and know what brought it about so I can avoid doing it again? It's no fun playing against a gimped opponent.

[vmxa1]

I have not played with the agressive settings, but if the AI reaches its OCN, it will be loathed to expanded. I would not think 12 would be enough though.

[Plotinus]

I like the idea of flipping, whichever way it goes, but like everyone else I hate the fact that any troops in the flipped city simply vanish. I just lost a game of the Japanese conquest because a city that had my Daimyo in it flipped... now how harsh is that!

[Shogun Gunner]

raze the cities, no chance for flip then

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Fistleaf
As a rule of thumb, for every enemy citizen in the city and for every city radius square under enemy control, you need 2 times that number of troops garrisoned to prevent it from flipping,

Does the power/hit point level of the garrison have any effect on the formula? Would an army of elite Modern Armor give the same prevention as four conscript warriors?

[bongo]

Yep. You only need an A/D value other than zero.

Catapults won't work. I'm not sure about ships, but as a rule of thumb, any unit that can be used for military police will also help in preventing flips.

Don't use you modern armor army for this, use you old horseman armies instead.

[latka]

I feel that there is critical flaw in C3C in relation to Culture. I just abandoned a Demi-god game, because there was no way I was even going to survive, with perhaps the exception of my capitol.

I was playing with eight Civs and four were on the same continent as I was. One of the Civs got off to such a huge lead that by 30 BC, they had GunPowder.

That factor by itself was not enough to get any of the other Civs to persue war against them. The killer was that they were also building most of the Wonders. Now their Culture was sky rocketting.

Due to this I had two of my own Cities flip. One was only six spaces from my Capital, had a temple, was a size four with eight units in it, one happy citizen and no unhappy citizens.

Their Culture was completely overbearing. I even saw another Civ lose a city to them due to a culture flip.

From what I can tell, the AI civs do not take another opponents culture into account when determining whether or not to wake war, or perhaps it does. It just determines that Civs with high Culture should be friends, rather than enimies. I don't know.

Any thoughts?

[Yef]

I think I will not play again with cultural convertions on.
Oh well.

[vmxa1]

latka just disable the culture victory and maybe one or two less civs for awhile.

[Fistleaf]

The AI has a slightly more positive attitude (-1) towards Civs with dominant culture. This is mentioned in the AI attitude thread by Bamspeedy in CivFanatics.

[The Hack]

Originally posted by bongo
Remember that it never flips the first turn. Often that turn is enough to get rid of resistance.

According to the formula, enough troops will completely remove the change of a flip.


What I dislike most with the current model is that your troops just disappear. FLipping itself seems logical enough, but your troops should have a change of survival (based on the number of troops, their strength, the size of the city, the tech level of their mother civ etc.)

Did some calculations in a PBEM once and found that after starving a city down to size 1, I still needed 10-15 units to completely prevent a flip. I don't see how a size 1 population could realistically hope to overwhelm a 10 unit strong state-of-the-art garrison.

They poisened their drinks while your troops were celebrating at the local brothal.