Of Tribes and Civs

[Chrush]

Concerning North American Tribes:

I heard the Seminoles were one of the most advanced North American tribes. Besides there was a hardly known civilization settling around the Mesa Verde region, which could easily compete with old Latin American Civilizations as the Mayas.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by LzPrst
oh yes the question.
4. the iroquis were the only "real" civilization in north america. though actually I think the cherokee were pretty advanced too...

There were other advanced tribes in North-America at other times. I would have liked to see the Anasazi, for instance. The Sioux, on the other hand, did little more than flee onto the plains at gun-point by the then almighty Iroquois and consequently lose battle after battle to the white settlers.

The Cherokee are an Iroquoian people that split off and went south, so it's basically the same culture.

After the Iroquois set the example with their confederacy, other similar (now mostly forgotten) unions were formed, also by non-Iroquoian tribes (including the white man, their's is still around ).

Further south, the Hopi and other pueblo tribes, descendents of the Anasazi, were pretty civilized as well.

And there was the large city (by North-American standards) of Cahokia, too.

So there were a few possibilities to add a second native civ in North-America.

though theres a valid point concerning some african civs that were left out. Mali and ethiopia etc...

Absolutely true!

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by LzPrst
hey!!! I was answering nr 4!
but you're post is better
but my point about the other tribes being nomadic stands. the iroquis had 5 tribes united with a council and stretched a fairly large area of permanent settlements. though I dont recall them being too big on the horseriding... I'm gonna look that up.

Hehe. I've asked to make sure (they ARE on the internet, like everybody) but no, even while at the time of their Golden Age the horse was already getting common, because of their environment they did not really ride horses then. The 'Mounted Warrior' as a UU is laughable.
A good UU for the Iroquois would be a Musketman that treats all squares as roads.

[vmxa1]

Ribannah good to see you post again. I agree with you that there are a number of tribes that could be used, the problem is they are not well known, even in America. Civ requires that they have a reasonable level of recognition. That cuts it way down.
Apache, Sioux and Cherokee a some of those that are fairly well known.

Many of the north eastern tribes are not well known at all.

[Mad Bomber]

Ribannah:

The Cherokee were a distinct and seperate nation from the Iroqouis. The Cherokees largest area of influence extended from North Carolina south to Florida and west to Arkansas and Colorado. Their ancient history also contains a legend (The Legend of the Keetoowah) that they had originated from island(s) off of the coast of South America. THeir capitol, Kituhwa, was located near present day Bryson, N.C. The Cherokee were eventually pushed off their lands by European nations (Spanish, French, English, Americans)

As for the Iroqouis the last UU they should have is a musketman. Better would be an Archer or Longbowman based UU.

for additional info check out:

Cherokee History

[Ribannah]

The musket was the weapon that started their Golden Age. At that time they had more muskets than any of the European powers had in the area.

Yes, the Cherokee formed a different nation. That's what I said. But that was after they split off from the Iroquois (before the League was formed). Language and customs remained similar.

The 'history' you are refering to is fake, deformed by an attempt to incorporate the beginning of mankind according to the Bible.

vmxa1: "Ribannah good to see you post again. I agree with you that there are a number of tribes that could be used, the problem is they are not well known, even in America. Civ requires that they have a reasonable level of recognition. That cuts it way down.
Apache, Sioux and Cherokee a some of those that are fairly well known.

Many of the north eastern tribes are not well known at all."

Yes, the USA have made an excellent job of hiding the history (and part of the present) of their patch of the world, as well as history in general. They are masters at it, still continue to do so today. This is very, very sad. By destroying their history, they are destroying their future.

[Caesar2760]

I am disappointed in the lack of a Polynesian civ. Come on! The Polynesians are the first people to travel the open sea, they settle all the way across the most massive ocean on the planet, without any access to bronze or iron! They form highly organized tribal kingdoms, one or two of which (Tonga and Hawai'i) are large, powerful, and cultural enough to deserve civness in and of themselves! Put in Polynesia! (Besides, everyone loves Seafaring...)

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber


For an African nation I always liked the Nubians. They were the only other civ in Africa or Europe to build pyramids (although much, much, smaller in size.)

Although the kingdom that built those pyramids was situated in Nubia, it's better known as the Kingdom of Kush, or the Ku****es.

Nubia or the Kingdoms of the Nubians are more properly the Christian entities that arose after the fall of Kush. In about 600 a.d., Syrian/Byzantine monks brought Christianity to Nubia, and Christian kingdoms were founded in the area of southern Egypt and northern Sudan, where Meroitic culture had been replaced with Nubian.

[Antrine]

quote by Ribannah

Yes, the USA have made an excellent job of hiding the history (and part of the present) of their patch of the world, as well as history in general. They are masters at it, still continue to do so today. This is very, very sad. By destroying their history, they are destroying their future.

We learned our bad habits from the Roman Empire... Too much latin in higher english schools and religious ones.

[LzPrst]

A good UU for the Iroquois would be a Musketman that treats all squares as roads.

I'd love to see an early guerrilla-like unit treat all terrain as road, fair attack and defence, possibly with bombard value, requires saltpeter. or just a big nasty huron with a tomahawk!

[LzPrst]

what about a unit animation that involves a tomahawk, a musket, a bow, and an ushiro mawashi-geri, thats a UU that I'd like to see
btw did anyone see the brotherhood of wolves? french film. thats the kind of iroquis I'd like to see.

[vmxa1]

I doubt any US companies are going to go for using tomahawks or anything involving native americans. It is just asking for grief.