Your Starting Position, and What to Do About It

[Aeson]

Ok, here's a recent start I had that seems very interesting. All random settings except for standard mapsize, came up Sumeria (Enkidu, Agricultural, Scientific). It's on Sid... was looking to test if Theseus' Archers have a chance... but just treat it as your prefered difficulty setting.

Several ways to go with this, what do you do?

[Kropotkin]

I'm a CivIII newbie but I'd stay where you are. As you got the palace in the first city, you'll soon be able to get hold of the forests in the distance. It's better to be close to the river afterall, and those hills will come on handly a little later on when you're looking to boost your productivity.

[Arrian]

I might move to the gold hill, and start mining those grasslands like a mofo.

-Arrian

[steven8r]

Move to the Gold Hill and Settle. You'd get the extra Commerce bonus immediately. Otherwise, it would be awhile before you could WF that hill.

Putting the town on the Gold Hill will get 2f from it. With the River and Ag trait, would it ever produce 3f?

Steven

[MotownDennis]

Ahhh yes. That's an easy one. Go for the gold! Nice commerce right away plus the defensive bonus - and you're still on the river. Not much to think about there.


Mo D

[Aeson]

Moving to the Gold hill is a good option, gives you a Forest to work that one turn, and extra commerce. You get the +3 food city tile from Ag regardless of the terrain. (fresh water and/or advanced government of course)

Other good options too...

[Kropotkin]

It seems like you seasoned players of this game really like to place your cities on hills. This has been noticed and I'm currently incorporating this into my current game where it happened to be a suitable option. It's a good thing that you can actually learn something from the forum for once, being an old OT-fart as I am.

[furrykef]

Two reasons to build on hills:
- Hills add a defense bonus
- Hills are not very productive in the early game, so moving from a good terrain square to a hill frees up a "good" square and uses up a "bad" one (the city will be unaffected by the underlying terrain except for commerce bonuses)

- Kef

[ftrooper93]

Doesn't being behind a river add a bonus to defense if the accker has to come from that direction?

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by ftrooper93
Doesn't being behind a river add a bonus to defense if the accker has to come from that direction?

Yes it does.

[Dominae]

I would explore with the Worker first, moving either South or East (edit: Why South or East? Because scouting using the cardinal points for movement reveals the most tiles, and both directions yield a Hills tile, which offer the second-best visibility radius after Mountains). I would probably pick South, for no better reason than there appears to be more River tiles in that direction.

If the Worker reveals nothing interesting, I might be tempted to move the Settler in the other direction (the other option I mean, i.e. West if the Worker went South) just to reveal more tiles.

If both directions reveal nothing interesting, I would probably found my capital the next turn anyway, although I would be tempted to move "back" to the Gold. It would depend on what the Settler sees, to some extent.

At any rate, I believe that scouting is the right play here; the Gold is just there to distract you away from your real goal, that is, finding a high-Food city-site for your capital.


Dominae

[Aeson]

I would explore with the Worker first, moving either South or East (edit: Why South or East? Because the scouting using the cardinal points for movement reveals the most tiles, and both directions yield a Hills tile, which offer the second-best visibility radius behind Mountains).

I agree that if you are considering moving your Settler, unless it's because you are on a bonus tile that you will improve first, you should move your Worker first to Scout. This way you'll be able to make the most informed choice as to where to move your Settler.

I would probably pick South, for no better reason than there appears to be more River tiles in that direction.

Good reasoning. I wish I had been thinking like that! I moved the Worker East, mainly due to the position on the mini-map. I felt there was more likelyhood of Grassland/Forest to the West and Jungle/Marsh South. With random map settings it was mostly a guess though. The Worker didn't see the magic food bonus I hoping for, so the Settler then went South.

At any rate, I believe that scouting is the right play here; the Gold is just there to distract you away from your real goal, that is, finding a high-Food city-site for your capital.

I'd say that the Gold is a good choice still, and depending on the goal of the game can be a better or worse play. Moving the Worker first to explore though, given the position of the Hills.

The river forest you get by moving to the Gold helps the +3 food city squeeze out a few more shields (+2 in one of the first 6 turns, +2 on the growth turn). So moving (W, SW, S, SE, or E) will pay off from a production standpoint in the first 7 turns. I normally prioritize Food, then Production, then Commerce in my games, but the order of Commerce and Production is more a playstyle issue. If Food, Commerce, then Production is the order, moving to the Gold is probably the best move.

------------------

Here's what Dominae would have seen (just the S part with the Worker most likely, right? ):

[Aeson]

I just want to say that the 'right' and 'wrong' moves shouldn't be determined by what is seen through those moves. The reasoning behind the moves is what really matters. In this case it isn't so much to find a bonus food source (which may or may not be there), but you're given a good opportunity to see a good deal of what is around without much cost (a Worker turn or two). The likelyhood a better start location for your purposes is pretty high given the lack of early shield production.

Even if you were to move back to the Gold hill, ignoring the Game, you have a better idea of what to do in the future to maximize your efficiency. (ie. improve tiles towards the S instead of N, get a Settler out ASAP to use the Game)

Also, in case anyone was wondering, the archer rush attempt on this map was aborted very early... Carthage is your neighbor.

[Dominae]

Either South or East, it's the luck of the draw that determines in which direction there's a bonus Food resource (if any). With the moves I suggested it turns out that I would have been in the best position (Worker spots Game, Settler moves in same direction to create 4-turn pump with Worker nearby), but it could easily have turned out otherwise.

I agree that the value of information in scouting with the Worker is worth more than just the search for bonus Food tiles, although that is the priority.

What I meant about the Gold is that it's not a good idea to just move the Settler there right away, even though at first glance it appears like the best place to found the capital.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, the archer rush attempt on this map was aborted very early... Carthage is your neighbor.

Archer-rush on Sid, eh?


Dominae

[Mountain Sage]

OK, the first turn of my latest game (posted on the 'Emperor skills' thread).
What's your opinion?