Your Starting Position, and What to Do About It

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Arrian

p.s. WF = "work force" I used to say "citizen" but being part of the American Imperialist (tm) team in the MZO C3C Demogame has exposed me to E_T and his use of WF.

Just wait until you start confusing non-DGers with the keypad terminology for wf palcements!

[MotownDennis]

In my mind, there's absolutely no reason to even consider moving. If this were a MP game, you wouldn't even consider moving that settler. Time IS money.

There are very few instances where I would consider moving.



Mo D

[A_Turkish_Guy]

just ragenerate your map

[Aeson]

It obviously isn't MP. In SP it will definitely pay off to move off the bonus Grassland at least. There are more hills in the area than you can use early on, so building on one of them makes sense from a food standpoint. Over the course of a SP game (on Monarch), you'll easily repay the lost turns many times over.

Even in MP it might be best to move onto one of the Hills for defense. Depends on the type of MP game and who your opponents are. That city site probably isn't going to be very defensible with coastal Hills leading up to it from the N and S, while it's on flats.

[:) Smiley]

Speaking of such early things, does anyone join the worker into the first city immediately?

[MotownDennis]

Agreed - it isn't MP. And it is an easier SP level. Of course, you can get away with moving in this situation. I'd say the harder the game and the more unpredictable your opponent, the less it makes sense to move.

I personally still wouldn't move for the extra defense, though I do understand why you'd say that. I believe that this city would not be likely to be attacked as you'll settle in a ring around it (no, I'm not talking RCP either). The point is that it LOOKS to be in a spot that would be difficult for enemies to get to, unless they do it very early.

I guess I go with hunches, instinct, and experience in these situations, and my instinct tells me "settle now".

I'd be very interested to see some more screenshots as the game progresses.


Mo D

[MotownDennis]

Originally posted by Smiley
Speaking of such early things, does anyone join the worker into the first city immediately?

I've tried this many times (though I haven't done "scientific" tests), and my experience tells me that this is ALMOST always a bad idea.


Mo D

[Arrian]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt


Just wait until you start confusing non-DGers with the keypad terminology for wf palcements!

I haven't converted to that yet. Since the MZO demogame is still rather young, I can just specify a few tiles based on their description. Soon, however, I'm going to need to start typing things like:

Washington WF 6-7-1-10



-Arrian

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Arrian
I haven't converted to that yet. Since the MZO demogame is still rather young, I can just specify a few tiles based on their description. Soon, however, I'm going to need to start typing things like:

Washington WF 6-7-1-10

Luckily Arnelos and I are somewhat used to using that terminology too or we'd all be in trouble. But it does make it easier when you have a bunch of WF orders to specify.

[Aeson]

The point is that it LOOKS to be in a spot that would be difficult for enemies to get to, unless they do it very early.

I'm not sure I get your aversion to moving then. The only real danger in moving is that you'll get attacked early, and that lost turn or two will give your attacker the edge. If you're not accounting for an early attack, then the economic advantage of moving will have time to pay off. Either way I think it's more valuable to at least move off the bonus Grassland onto a Hill.

The only downside I see is if you're beaten by 1 turn to a tech, and lose out on trading. Given that you don't have a river start, it's a good bet you'll end up behind in the tech race anyways. Moving to the river could help a lot in that regard, or slightly hurt.

I guess I go with hunches, instinct, and experience in these situations, and my instinct tells me "settle now".

When it really matters I go with what I can see and calculate out (which does include probability for unseen things). My guess is that moving to the river is the best move if you expect to survive more than 20-30 turns, but I would definitely work out exactly what timeframe would be needed to have it pay off if it were a game I cared about.

[Puma]

is that a hut at 21 on theseus' starting position?

[MotownDennis]

Originally posted by Aeson


I'm not sure I get your aversion to moving then.

I'm worried about the lost production and exploration time.

Maybe you're right, though; maybe moving to the hill or river is the best course of action. Maybe Theseus could play out the game three different ways for a little while.

1) settle now
2) move 1 space to hill on coast then settle
3) move to river then settle

Whaddya think? I'd be interested to see how each scenario plays out.


Mo D

[Arrian]

Re: the suggestion someone else post a start position...

You know what might be cool, seeing as the game is now a good chunk of the way through the medieval age? Posting the Gathering Storm's start position, and what we ended up doing with it.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

A little bit down the road...

Good eye, Puma!!

Com'on, somebody post another! (and I do like Arrian's idea about the GS start, btw)

[Theseus]

Oh, and it occurs to me looking back at some of the saves, Aeson's point about Palace location was sort of irrelevant to me at the time... this was C3C BETA 1.12, so I assumed I'd be moving my Palace to a central location at some later date.

This ended up being a very very builder game, for me at least. Again, I have the 4000 BC save if anyone wants it.