Israel

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Salah al-Din
Philadelphia = Fila del Fia

Philadelphia, along with a whole pile of cities, and towns in the US got their names from other, or older cities around the world, or were named after famous people.

Uh, "Philadelpia" was not named after "Fila del Fia"; "Philadelphia" is a greek word meaning "brotherly love".

[MattPilot]

to sidetrack in this ancient thread, what bothers me is that there is a german civ, but no austrian civ.

Funny, how the german federation got created by the austrian empire only about 200 years ago (or also called the habsburg empire). The habsburg dynasty however started almost a 1000 years ago (first mention of austria as an independent 'country' was in 1156 - 'germany' was first mentioned in 1814).

It is true that the forfathers of the central european people were called germanic, though that doesn't make them 'german' per say. Austrians were 'germanic' too (mostly, <- also had a great number of slavic people).

So why exactly was the german name favored, over the more accurate Habsburg term that has a great deal of more history?

[joncha]

The recorded usage of the term "German" was by the Roman mathematician/philosopher Posidonius in 90 BC. I think that slightly predates the Hapsburgs. Germania was in constant usage in the Roman empire from Julius Caesar onwards, including in Tacitus's book Germania in 98 AD.

jon.

[Switch]

Not to mention that Firaxis looked a lot at the current situation of civs as well. Not to diminish Austria, but Germany is a MUCH bigger country on the world scale (politically, economically...*ahem* militarily). Except for some exceptions, they mainly picked civs that most people would recognize (I mean, America has only been around for a few hundred years, but it wasn't till conquests that the Maya and Inca were included...and England is really just a weird mix of Angles and Saxons).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MattPilot
to sidetrack in this ancient thread, what bothers me is that there is a german civ, but no austrian civ.

Funny, how the german federation got created by the austrian empire only about 200 years ago (or also called the habsburg empire). The habsburg dynasty however started almost a 1000 years ago (first mention of austria as an independent 'country' was in 1156 - 'germany' was first mentioned in 1814).

It is true that the forfathers of the central european people were called germanic, though that doesn't make them 'german' per say. Austrians were 'germanic' too (mostly, <- also had a great number of slavic people).

So why exactly was the german name favored, over the more accurate Habsburg term that has a great deal of more history?

Perhaps because Germany is an important country wrt the previous century, whereas Austria was largely irrelevent (despite its role in WWI)?

[MattPilot]

irrelevent? The only reason germany has more recognition is because they elected a madman who is known around the world.

If there were no habsburg empire, there would of never been a germany (of course, if there were no 'holy' roman empire, there would of never been a habsburg empire).

With the significant growth of the habsburg empire during Emporer Maximilius (sp?) period of the roman empire in 14-1500's, the habsburg empire decided to also 'split' its possesions (in 1814 during the vienna convention) to have more effective control over it.

Should a civ be in the game soley because they are well known because of a single war, or should a civ be in the game because of its evolution through time ?

[Kuciwalker]

I said IN THE PREVIOUS CENTURY.

[joncha]

hehe I love all these [insert my country] uber alles posts. Good for a laugh.

I don't think Canada should be in, btw (although... they could have a Mountie UU that gets a bonus for oppressing "barbarians")

jon.

[pauli]

"oh look, my elite mounties made an mgl!"

"hmm. his name is 'dudley doright..."

[Plotinus]

[Mattpilot] To be fair, I don't think Germany has world recognition simply because of a single war... I hope that you would have heard of the place even if the Second World War had never happened or Hitler (who was of course Austrian) had never existed. It has, I believe, the fourth largest economy in the world. Germany was a major player in nineteenth century politics after its unification under Bismarck - who, you will notice, is a pre-twentieth century figure who is used by Civ3 as Germany's leader. Germany as a single political identity may not have existed before 1871, but it certainly did as a cultural grouping - and if the Celts can qualify as a single civilisation in this game, then the Germans certainly can. You could date them all the way back to the ninth century and the Carolingian age, at least.

The English, by the way, are far more than just a bunch of Angles and Saxons... in fact, there has been so much immigration, invasion, and general mixing over the centuries that only about a quarter of our makeup is Anglo-Saxon. For example, three-quarters of all Britons today are partly descended from French Huguenots who came here in the seventeenth century.

Oh, and they *did* include Austria anyway, didn't they? You have to mod it into the game because they had reached the limit, but it's tucked away somewhere on the Conquests disc.

[MattPilot]

The austrian civ that is included is in the napoleon scenario.

As i've said, the 'Germanic' people have been around for 1000's of years, fighting against the roman empire North of the danube, if i remember correctly. As i've said, Austrians were mostly 'germanic', so to lable the germanic people as germans isn't quite right.

You can hardly call germany a 'civilization', but merely a nation. It is infact the youngest 'civ' in the game, next to the americans.

Though i will drop the subject now, since i'd have to go to an austrian Civ forum to find some sympathy.

[Switch]

It's actually a simple matter why Germany is in the game and Austria isn't. Germany is more well known to people generally, and so Firaxis went with that so more people would be comfortable with the civs, and would know more about them. And for the record, it doesn't matter how mature or 'civilized' a nation is, because in the game they're called tribes. And if you're looking at national age, America is actually older than Germany (mid-to-late 1800s, about the same time as Canada)

[Plotinus]

[Switch] Pardon my ignorance, but surely the United States came into being in 1783 or thereabouts, whereas Germany came into being in 1871?

Bear in mind, too, that the term "1800s" refers to the years 1800-1809, not to the whole of the nineteenth century. It's an increasingly common mistake...

[MattPilot]

Switch - i do believe thats what i said. maybe "followed" would have been a more proper word instead of "next" - guess i'm no expert in english.


btw, i think it has more to do to the fact that germany has over 10x potential customers than austria has.

[Switch]

OK, sorry...guess there have been some miscommunications and misreadings on my part...

What I meant to say is that America is older than Germany, as America was born before 1800 (1783?) whereas Germany became a nation in the mid-to-late 1800s (1871?). So Germany is the youngest, with America being second youngest. Sorry about the communication error.