Cheating AI

[Scottyb]

Is there ANY way you can stop the AI cheating - its not right. I dont see the point of working out a strategy, a way to play the game well, only for the computer to BLATANTLY cheat its whiley ass back into it.



You get the idea... Please help. I have Civ III and conquests but am ready to uninstall the lot.

[Scottyb]

I just noticed - ther is another guy on here at the following thread here and this sums it all up really.

[alva]

The AI doesn't cheat the way you think it does.

[Scottyb]

How dows it cheat then...

Like this?

/*Wonders AI*/
If schmuck.current.Wonder <= 9 turns to complete
{
If current.ai.civ <= schmuck.current.civ
{
current.ai.civ.bigcity += schmuck.current.wonder;
}
}
/*Haha - Suckers*/

[alva]

No, It doesn't.
It does get production advantages from monarch on.
On regent both you and the AI get none, on lower levels you get get the bonusses.
(this applies to trade aswell btw )

[Scottyb]

Hmmm,
I usually play Regent, and do really well, i currently have a massive civ, technologically im the leader, but i can NEVER make wonders.

As soon as i get close (usually 9 turns away) the AI gets it, and to make matters worse, if there is another wonder to switch too, it usually gives another civ that one on the same turn. This leaves me with a mass of worthless shields.

Which means that i have to go war-mongering to get what i want.

And god knows how another CIV can keep up with me on the technology front (as they always do), as i have libraries and uni's in most of my cities.

So im just sitting here thinking - whats the point - no matter what i do i can't win by more than a couple of turns over a civ that can't possbly be up to my level - I still win, but - so what , i want to really win. And the only way you can do that in this game is to do it by force.

Boring.

[alva]

I still win, but - so what , i want to really win.

What's the point of winning without any competition.
Being a warmonger IS part of this game, trying to win by being a builder, however noble, is going to limit your capabilities.

You can always try a lower level if you want.
-
BTW:
Do you check F7 before you start building a wonder? Try investigating cities that build wonders etc.

Try using pre-builds/placeholders before you get the tech for the wonder you want etc.

In other words, be creative

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by alva
Try using pre-builds/placeholders before you get the tech for the wonder you want etc.

I think the "pre-build" is the key here. It does get tougher on higher levels to beat the AI to wonder building...

However, it's not in this specific way that the AI cheats. Other threads cover the lack of AI "fog of war" that the AI seems to use to it's advantage. One commonly held belief is that the AI can see unguarded cities and then it knows to send troops to capture them.

[vmxa1]

The AI cheat is to "know" the tiles as if it was looking at the map in the editor. So it knows where coal is going to be from day one. It knows if you have an undefended city.
At levels of Mon and above it gets extra units to start and some other handicaps.

If you are not able to build wonders before the AI at regent after say the ancient age, then you need to look at how you are managing your empire. It is not hard to make a more productive wonder building city than the AI. Now with SGL, they can get a leader and bust your roll on a given wonder, but that should not be common.

Like Alva said, when you plan to start up a wonder, do F7 and see if anyone has it already under construction. It is to be expected that the AI will switch from its current wonder to another if that wonder is completed by anyone. This often triggers a rash of completions and if you are careless, you will be hold the bag or looking for the chair to sit in.

Look at your wonder building city. If is not ringed by mines, you have a problem. If it is not a size 12 and full before Hospitols, you got a problem.

Post a save and we can take a peek to if things could be done or you are in fact just getting robbed.

[Outsider]

"One commonly held belief is that the AI can see unguarded cities and then it knows to send troops to capture them."

One can use this to his own advantage, of course.

Simply leave a city or three unguarded far enough back in your territory that the AI can't actually get to it (them) in one turn. It will often neglect to attack your units in preference for running a big pile of units towards the unguarded cities. Arrange it so you have some of your units in place to get passing shots at his as they go by, and also so that the troops he sends run out of movement points on unfavorable terrain. Whack, whack, whack, 40 chops with an axe, and his offensive potential is seriously weakened.

[Scottyb]

Okay,
I havent been checking F7, or surrounding my city with mines... Not a good start i suppose. I have had my workers on Auto (Mistake?)

Included is a save (Conquests required) - i am the Persians (renamed the Scots ), and its 1665 - so its mid-game really.

Any help you can give me - maybe point out where im making mistakes would be great.

Im thinking of going warmongering - espesially against the Spanish - good idea? - might wait until right of passage is up.

Incidentally another thing which really annoys me is that i can tell another country to get off my land until im blue in the face and they will just keep on trying. Telling them to get off or declare war dosent help - they just relocate to the border then try again on the next stop - turn after turn - shot after shot. Why??

[Outsider]

Because the computer is a relentless automaton. Usually it is trying to get to something on the other side of your territory (open land to found a city, or it is trying to get its troops over to another empire to attack it)

The best way I've found to prevent those annoying, repeated border incursions is to pick a narrow spot and line units up solidly across it (1 per square) such that the computer can't trace a path through my territory to whatever it wants to get to on the other side. If it cant find an unblocked path, it doesnt bother sending units down the first few steps.

It is a not so bad use for captured workers (the half efficiency ones) if you're not short workers but are tired of clicking on SO MANY of them to get anything done.

[alva]

I have had my workers on Auto (Mistake?)

Actually this the biggest mistake one can make (and aotu-gouvernor)
You really need to learn worker actions, this is the basic concept for CiV, good worker actions are a deffinate must!!!

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Outsider
"One commonly held belief is that the AI can see unguarded cities and then it knows to send troops to capture them."

One can use this to his own advantage, of course.

Simply leave a city or three unguarded far enough back in your territory that the AI can't actually get to it (them) in one turn. It will often neglect to attack your units in preference for running a big pile of units towards the unguarded cities. Arrange it so you have some of your units in place to get passing shots at his as they go by, and also so that the troops he sends run out of movement points on unfavorable terrain. Whack, whack, whack, 40 chops with an axe, and his offensive potential is seriously weakened.

Yes, a common small unit tactic to lure the enemy into a kill zone. It doesn't seem quite right to do that on a scale like C3C... well, my opinion at least....

I agree, the tactic works. Did it last night!

[Catt]

Re: Cheating AI

Originally posted by Scottyb
Is there ANY way you can stop the AI cheating - its not right. I dont see the point of working out a strategy, a way to play the game well, only for the computer to BLATANTLY cheat its whiley ass back into it.

I was ready to politely correct your perception and state that the AI doesn't cheat the way you think it does; wait for yuor inevitable rejoinder; and then bow out of the discussion as a frustrating way to spend my time. But instead you responded to others with:

Originally posted by Scottyb
Okay,
I havent been checking F7, or surrounding my city with mines... Not a good start i suppose. I have had my workers on Auto (Mistake?)

Included is a save (Conquests required) - i am the Persians (renamed the Scots), and its 1665 - so its mid-game really.

Any help you can give me - maybe point out where im making mistakes would be great.

So you are willing to look for other explanations to your frustrations than a cheating AI.

There is a lot of excellent information available here. Please spend some time here in the General and in the Strategy forums, and look to the topped threads. Lots of solid information to soak up.

I downloaded your game to have a look. Without trying to tackle everything, let me offer some broad advice and a specific exmaple as well (and it's all worth what you piad for it, which is to say nothing ).

First, automating workers is a bad idea generally. You can do a much better job of using workers if you understand the game factors at play and also control them yourself.

Second, on first glance you seem to have too much irrigation and not enough mines (you heard this in prior posts). The effects of this may contribute to your losing wonders to the AI by a few turns.

Third, you have too many defenders, especially in interior cities. It's all good and well to have several defenders in border cities -- and your border cities include coastal cities since you're at war with the Vikings and they are not afraid to use Berserks to amphibiously attack your settlements -- but having 5 or 6 defenders in internal cities that cannot be attacked in one turn just means that you are paying unit upkeep on units doing nothgin for you (if you prss F1 you'll see you pay 100+ gold per turn for units, an awful lot when you're only paying 200+ towards science research).

Fourth, consider changing your preferences (CTRL-P) to activate the option "Always wait at end of turn" -- this means the game will wait for you to hit the spacebar to go to the next trun, allowing you to look at cities, units, etc. with whatever thought process you'd like to indulge, without the game moving on to the next turn before you're ready.

Fifth: Trade! Look for opportunities to trade your excess luxuries and evn excess strategic resources to other civs for your advantage.

Okay, broad advice over -- some specific advice directed at your first complaint (losing a wonder by 9 turns).

Trade axtra supply of horses to Spain for Furs. Trade extra supply of Dyes and 3 gpt to Hittites for Furs. The two new luxuries from the trades mean that you no longer need any entertainers in your cities (you could also do a wide variety of trades, including getting all available techs, if you are willing to forgo your sole supply of saltpeter).

Glasgow is building JS Bachs, with 41 turns to go. Aberdeen is a potentially more powerful wonder-city: it has more shields available (if the terrain is improved) and isn't the capitol (meaning it can use the palace pre-build tactic / exploit). On turn 1 (1665 AD) three slave workers leave Stenhousemuir and move to the irrigated plains to the west and begin to build a mine over the irrigation. A native worker and a slave move southeast from Falkirk two squares and begin to mine the irrigated tile. Glasgow switches its production from JS Bachs to university, wasting 70 shields. Abrdeen starts building JS Bachs with 37 turns to go. Completion of Wonder: shortened by 4 turns.

A shot of Aberdeen at turn one (taken before the trades -- the city has 2 extra food, will grow in two turns, and the trades will put the entertainer back to work, producing more food meaing it will grow next turn).

Catt