PtW scenarios

[SpencerH]

Does anyone know if the players who built the PtW scenarios got paid for their effort?

[Lord_Davinator]

as far as I can say: NO... most of those files were free for download

[SpencerH]

I ask because I found it strange to see the units I mod-ed on a "secure" disk and I wondered whether the players who put in a huge amount of effort felt about it.

This isnt a *****, I realize that the original work came from Firaxis/infogreed but given that the stuff is all free I just think it would have been classier if it was all on a (non-safe) second disk.

[Panag]

hi ,

nope , .....

should it be like that , ......


have a nice day

[vmxa1]

I am not sure I can say anything for sure, but what I remember reading form some of the people that submitted work, is that it was free.
I would imagine they did it because they like that stuff and it would be a kick to see it on a commercial package.
Many have posted updates to their submissions.
This is not uncommon and you can see it in Heroes expansion disk. In some of the Homm cases, the users agreed to not post their stuff on the net until after the package was out.

[Hagbart]

All the extra stuff you get in PTW are user made and submitted to Firaxis who then took a look at it and added it to the PTW cd. Well apart from a few (very few) maps that where made by some of the Firaxis people (not good maps btw).
The maps/mods/scenarios were not originally made to be submitted to Firaxis, but were posted on Apolyton, Civfanatics for free download. Like the map I point to in my signature.

[SpencerH]

Talk about psychic powers eh? The day after I post this thread what do we see at poly news .

You'd almost think that the Firaxians read these threads and take our ideas without acknowledgement

[Hagbart]

Well... maybe they do

[WarpStorm]

Not hardly, on CivFanatics Jeff from Atari said that this was going to happen at least a month or so ago.

I know for a fact that nobody got paid for the PTW mods included.

BTW, if you read your EULA for Civ3, it says that if you post a mod anywhere, Infogrames (now Atari) has the rights to use it in anyway they see fit.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
Not hardly, on CivFanatics Jeff from Atari said that this was going to happen at least a month or so ago.

I know for a fact that nobody got paid for the PTW mods included.

BTW, if you read your EULA for Civ3, it says that if you post a mod anywhere, Infogrames (now Atari) has the rights to use it in anyway they see fit.

Doesnt change a thing, I was still picking up psychic emanations from those who knew about it.

Fear me. Fear my powers!

As for their EULA, **** em. It still smells for a company to cause many bugs that are still ongoing by virtue of their copy protection crap to appear so loose with others work and ideas.

[vmxa1]

It is kind of like coming up with an idea at your company, using their equipment and time. It is not yours. The mods are made using the editor and units and such that they made.
If you want to be mad at copy protection, blame the people that are stealing software and music. They are driving the whole thing.

[SpencerH]

Wrongo. those mods are ours. A good analogy is music sampling. If I use part of your copywrited song in my own song, I may owe you (something) for its use, or you may prevent me from using your work. But, you dont own my song just because I included some of what you created in my creation. So, those of us who have mod-ed the original game or components have certainly infringed on Firaxis copywrite (although it may be argued that such infringement was expected given the inclusion of an editor and the historical precedent from civ2) and they are entitled to compensation for their effort or to stop our use of their material. BUT, they are not entitled to include our mods on their disc as if it is their material either. You'll note that ATARI have been clear that people submitting mods for inclusion with C3C must own the copyright to that material i.e. someone at ATARI knows what they're doing. The EULA is a red herring that could easily be fought by someone who wanted to (and had the money).

Maybe I have a warped perspective, I just found it odd how infogreed handled the mods included with PtW. Personally, I was tickled to see my small unit mods included with such a great scenario.

As for software piracy, I agree that it is a problem. But let me point out that I, like many others, started playing games such as civ with pirated versions. Later on, we purchased follow on games (hell, I even purchased the original after civ2 was out). Why do you think that MS whined about piracy in the early years but didnt use copy protection for their material? Because we used it! Our piracy and use of the OS's and Office suite, when there were still decent alternatives, built the MS monopoly.

[vmxa1]

It is always amusing to see people justify their misdeeds. No matter how you slice it, you stole from them.
I agree the EULA may be overturned in court, but anything can be over turned in court.

[SpencerH]

I bow before your innocence and purity. I'm sure you've paid for everything on your PC prior to using it.

[TheArsenal]

Spencer H:

To put it as simply as possible, the sampling analogy is not a valid one. This assumes the intellectual property governing music and literature, and the proprietary rights of use of elements of the game, are the same. They are not. Music can be used by means of simple and fair compensation. Not so for things like Civ series.

A better example is the patent and copyright elements used by drug makers. A drug is exclusive property of the drug maker, and so are all elements making it up as it creates the whole. Let's, for example, say Viagra, which is manufactured by Pfieffer. It is wholly protected against "free competition". Not only can you not manufacture and market Viagra, but if you create a drug based upon specific composition of Viagra - say you add something to it - and Pfeiffer can prove it, they can stop you. Or claim ownership of the drug you make as long as Viagra is under protection.

You as a licensed user have no rights to any protected elements of the game. By the very nature of creating mods using nothing but the elements of the game, you are creating property which rightfully belongs to Atari. If you threw a fit, you may be able to prevent them from using a mod you created - and I doubt this seriously - but in no way could you claim you should be compensated or stake any ownership claims whatsoever. It's just how it works.