How I would have done ___ in Civ3 ...

[Turrosh Mak]

I'm sure most of you have thought (at one point or another) "I would have done ___ another way". And I'm sure buried somewhere deep in the bowels of the board there is a similar thread (please don't shoot me for not finding it). Anyway, here are some of my thoughts on the vanilla version of Civ3 (not PtW).

Culture flip - every unit in the garrison suffers 2 or 3 attacks at a bombardment strength = city population and is pushed to the nearest friendly square. Planes and ships are sent to the nearest city/harbor.

Pollution - AI doesn't create pollution. Firaxis uses the time saved by coding the above culture flip change and new combat system. Pollution chances and number of pollution squares needed to cause global warming are changed to compensate. Move Mass transit into the industrial age.

Borders - AI respects borders, like in SMAC

Ground combat - units no longer move and attack separately. There are 2 movement phases and 2 combat phases. Units with 1 movement cannot move or attack in the 2nd phase. You select which adjacent units will attack and the odds are calculated from there. Damage is allocated based on defensive value (cavalry and tanks will take more damage than infantry when attacking). The Army unit is deleted. This will lead to broader, narrower penetrations similar to real WW1 and WW2 offensives.

Air combat - using the movement phase/combat phase model, fighter escorts are now possible for bombers. Air superiority fighters in range may attack as usual. Flak sites (new) and SAM sites attack all enemy aircraft in a 2 square radius using non leathal bombard (flak = 2 attacks at 4 strength, SAM = 3 attacks at 4 strength).

Corruption/Waste - this one's tougher. I would do away with the part of the equation relating to number of cities between x and the capitol/fp. The corruption due to absolute number of cities would be modified. This will lead to corruption/waste being spread out over the whole empire, as opposed to the current system where your core 16-30 cities do all the heavy lifting and everything else exists solely to deny land to the AI. GAME EFFECT - FP is rendered useless Capitol exists only as the place where the spaceship is being built and a free court house. Government type and ERA effect Optimal City Number (a modern republic should be more efficient than a middle age republic due to better communications and speed of travel)

Unit construction- excess shields not used in construction are converted to wealth. Why should a city with a production of 72 have the same value as a city with a production of 60 when making Modern Armor?

Modern Era Tech tree - needs a complete overhaul. The space ship victory can be completed long before you aquire robotics (IMO a must have if you're going 4.4 light years from home)

City interface - listing the total coins/shields a city produces without showing me how many I can really use after corruption/waste is useless information. City view is pointless. The graphical representation of how coins are being utilized takes up too much room. Cost of maintenance isn't listed (have to go to F1 to see this). I liked SMAC's psyche display and would add something similar to Civ3.

INDIVIDUAL Gold/Sci/Ent sliders for each city!!! And an AI governor who won't keep trying to make Modern armor in pop 2 cities that don't have a market or a temple

F1 - let me sort cities by production. What is the purpose of the smiley face/contented face column?

F2 - jeezuz this lady never smiles. I can have 2 of every resource and luxury and she still isn't happy.

F3 - Perfect! No changes

F4 - Hmm, kind of falls apart with more than 8 civs. Could use a rework.

F5 - um, does anyone use this page?

F6 - another gloomy Gus. This guy isn't happy unless I've got 60% going to research. Annoying.

Whew! That's all I have. What do you think?

[Theseus]

Nothing too major; you might want to try the AU Mod, btw.

City interface - It does show you usable production.

F1 - You can.

[vmxa1]

Not unreasonable, but the only one I have any hope of seeing changed is F4 screen. This is really needed.

[johncmcleod]

The biggest changes are respecting the border, being allowed to claim land (I am so sick of the comp putting cities in culture holes, it is just plain stupid), and change the system of self suffiency for cities when the industrial age comes. People choose where they move. Certain cities would be more desirable more then others due to culture, happiness, and especially terrain. Not many people like to live in the tundra. Farming becomes much more efficient and a single citizen can farm more then one square, and the squares produce more food. The food is distributed to the cities throughout the country. Also the trade and economic system should be completely revamped. I'll find a couple of my threads and post them.

[TheArsenal]

Re: F1, sorting cities by production. You can do it from most productive to least, by clicking the shields icon at the top of the column. If you click it a second time it sorts in reverse order. This can be done with all the measures shown on that screen.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
The biggest changes are respecting the border, being allowed to claim land (I am so sick of the comp putting cities in culture holes, it is just plain stupid), and change the system of self suffiency for cities when the industrial age comes. People choose where they move. Certain cities would be more desirable more then others due to culture, happiness, and especially terrain.

These concepts exist in Moo3 and Galciv. Pop moves on its own to other planets that they like better.

[johncmcleod]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88372

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92209

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90442

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92228

Here are a bunch of my threads about changes that need to be made in order of how good they are. I won't mention the ideas from those threads, you'll have to read them yourself. Barbarians should be able to raze cities, marines should be more useful, paratroopers should be able to move after they've been dropped, helicopters should be allowed to be put on carriers, and longbowmen need to be way better. Also, the civs should be more different. Each civ should have 2 UU and their should be more traits and more ways to make the civs different.

The navy and especially air combat system needs to be revamped. Fighters should be able to escort bombers. There should be fighter bombers. There should be jet bombers.

[Turrosh Mak]

Theseus: I hate to argue with you, but the individual city display only lists one number above the icons of red and blue shields, the total shield production for the city. When I hit F1 and scroll down to the city, I get a column with 2 numbers, wasted/useable shields.

The information on the F1 page should be indicated on the city display. I should not have to hunt on another screen for information that important. I should be able to tell at a glance whether putting a mined square or an unmined square in production has any overall effect the instant I make the change. I shouldn't have to hit F1 and scroll down or huddle near my screen and count shields manually.

TheArsenal - oops, I think you misunderstood. I didn't mean sort by shield production. I meant sort by what is being made. I would like to see if I've got 10 cities or 12 producing MA at a glance.

[Panag]

Originally posted by johncmcleod

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88372

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92209

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90442

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92228

Here are a bunch of my threads about changes that need to be made in order of how good they are. I won't mention the ideas from those threads, you'll have to read them yourself. Barbarians should be able to raze cities, marines should be more useful, paratroopers should be able to move after they've been dropped, helicopters should be allowed to be put on carriers, and longbowmen need to be way better. Also, the civs should be more different. Each civ should have 2 UU and their should be more traits and more ways to make the civs different.

The navy and especially air combat system needs to be revamped. Fighters should be able to escort bombers. There should be fighter bombers. There should be jet bombers.

hi ,

the last lines , well most people agree with it

at least 4 new air force family units are needed

2 UU's for some civ's , not for all , traitwise

stuff like canals are also needed , a firehouse now with the random events to help fight forest fires and lava , ....

a prison to lower corruption , nowadays the police arrests them , brings them to the courthouse and then nothing , .....

this game needs at least twice the size it is now

have a nice day

[TheArsenal]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Turrosh Mak
TheArsenal - oops, I think you misunderstood. I didn't mean sort by shield production. I meant sort by what is being made. I would like to see if I've got 10 cities or 12 producing MA at a glance.

You can do this. I am not sure if this was available from the start or changed with a patch. But if you go into the F-1 and click the icon above the city build list as I noted before (I can’t recall what that icon is) it will arrange cities by what they are currently building allowing you to check build production at a glance.

[Solomwi]

I think it's just the word "Producing" or maybe "Production", but you're absolutely right that you can do it. I've found this, in conjunction with sorting by shield output, to be a very handy management tool.

TM, just about the only benefit I've found from the Happy/Content column is being able to tell which of my cities are about to go into disorder, or fall out of WLTKD, when counting faces becomes cumbersome. Aside from that, it lets you sort cities by happiness, which can be helpful in the later game.

I'm with Panag on canals. That's really the only worker action I can think of to add (base cost same as clearing jungle, maybe maximum of two tiles long). The AI doesn't think to build "canal cities", and my current game is a classic example. Of course, the AI probably also wouldn't consider building canals a high priority, so it would be just one more thing tilting the game toward the player.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solomwi
I think it's just the word "Producing" or maybe "Production", but you're absolutely right that you can do it. I've found this, in conjunction with sorting by shield output, to be a very handy management tool.

TM, just about the only benefit I've found from the Happy/Content column is being able to tell which of my cities are about to go into disorder, or fall out of WLTKD, when counting faces becomes cumbersome. Aside from that, it lets you sort cities by happiness, which can be helpful in the later game.

I'm with Panag on canals. That's really the only worker action I can think of to add (base cost same as clearing jungle, maybe maximum of two tiles long). The AI doesn't think to build "canal cities", and my current game is a classic example. Of course, the AI probably also wouldn't consider building canals a high priority, so it would be just one more thing tilting the game toward the player.

hi ,

the canals as a worker action would not get preference over a small wonder that allows a canal with a max length of lets say 4 or 5 tiles , ........

have a nice day

[Solomwi]

Small wonder, I could see, though I like the idea of canals as worker action better, since it would better represent the investment needed for each canal. Make it available with Industrialization and take as long as clearing jungle. Just trying to flesh this out a bit more, in retrospect, beefing the base turns up enough on it should eliminate the need for a maximum length. It's got some promise either way, though.

[Uber Warrior]

Something interesting to think about.....Canals are very Important to modern life and Industrialized Countries, why cant we build them in Civ? "The Panama Canal" "The St. Lawrence Seaway."

[Panag]

Originally posted by Uber Warrior
Something interesting to think about.....Canals are very Important to modern life and Industrialized Countries, why cant we build them in Civ? "The Panama Canal" "The St. Lawrence Seaway."

hi ,

at the starts of C III they where thinking about it , but for one or the other reason they left it out , ......

they could fix it if they want , true terra forming worker action or so , .....

but a small wonder allowing all civ's one or two canal's would be good , ....

have a nice day