Should the impi be changed?

[johncmcleod]

I think the impi should be changed. They should have the extra movement point, because they traveled far in real life, but they should be offensive units. First off, the Zulu have offensive units prioritized for building, the impis were offensive units in real life, and the Zulu are very aggressive so it would make the impis more useful. Should they replace the archer (after all, I don't think the Zulu used archers much)? The ratings could be 2.1.2. Would this unbalance the game or make them weaker? Or should the ratings be 2.2.2?

[The Mad Monk]

I don't know...the AI never seemed to have problems using Impis offensively in any of my games...

[CerberusIV]

I tried 2.2.2 impis. At 20 shields they are too cheap and allow the Zulus to rush everyone in sight. At 30 shields they take too long to build very early in the game. The Carthaginians can build a 30 shield spearman replacement because they are industrious and mine grassland for the extra shield output quickly but the Zulus can't.

A basic defensive unit is necessary but the impi isn't it. I am considering trying the impi as either a swordsman substitute or possibly a 2.2.2 30 shield horseman replacement that doesn't require horses and allowing the Zulus to build ordinary spearmen as well.

[sabrewolf]

2.1.2 couldn't be a spearman replacement anymore because they're too weak in defence.

maybe they don't represent the reality correct, but neither do the longbowmen which where used as a vital part of defence!
1.2.2 makes the impis THE ideal unit for pillaging. and they are perfect for protecting your horseman charge without having to wait for slow units to defend. impis can even withdraw from a fight!
they are perfect... only the zulu traits suck...

that's my opinion anyway

[Panag]

hi ,

, it would not unbalance a whole lot on larger maps , ......

the best would be 2 defense and 2 offense , only 1 as movement , same should be for any other combat unit , .....

why only one , simple they where foot soldiers , agreed they could cover something like 30 miles in one day , but still , ....

have a nice day

[Louis XXIV]

2.1.2 would completely screw Egypt

War Chariots are 2.1.2, requires Horses, and is wheeled

If Impis had the same stats without the penalties (and replaces Archers, so they start with them) they would be too powerful

[johncmcleod]

why only one , simple they where foot soldiers , agreed they could cover something like 30 miles in one day , but still , ....

That's 50 miles mind you.

If they replace the archer how about changing the starting techs so the Zulu don't start out with impis?

The Zulu have the two worst traits, and when the AI is them they always lose because of how aggressive they are and the only thing prioritized is offensive land units. So maybe making their UU a little unbalanced won't hurt.

How about making it 25 shields?

[Panag]

Originally posted by johncmcleod


That's 50 miles mind you.

If they replace the archer how about changing the starting techs so the Zulu don't start out with impis?

The Zulu have the two worst traits, and when the AI is them they always lose because of how aggressive they are and the only thing prioritized is offensive land units. So maybe making their UU a little unbalanced won't hurt.

How about making it 25 shields?

hi ,

, the zulu warrior came early , .....

well what about making wood a rescource or so , ..... shop down a forest and you can build them for twenty turns , ....

there are good results with higher cost , but the AI does not build them then , ......

fortunatly the impi is outdated fast and normally it does not present a huge danger , .....

have a nice day

[CerberusIV]

I have now tried impis as 30 shield 2.2.2 horseman replacements so they come with HBR but don't require horses and allowing the Zulus to build ordinary spearmen.

It seems to work well and the Zulus still build plenty of impis and use them aggressively. However they now seem to start a little more quietly and only become aggressive once their empire gets to being militarily strong (which the higher attack of the revised impi helps).

I like this change as it makes the Zulus more of a challenge as an AI civ. If you play with cultural linked starts on (I don't any more) then it may also give them a better chance against the Persians who usually wipe them out in my games.

[Lord_Davinator]

the 2.2.2 idea seems to be rather appealling... with a 30 shield cost it should make the impi and effective yet not too cheap unit.

[Bamspeedy]

The impi are fine the way they are.

They are flagged as both an offensive and a defensive unit for the AI, so they can and do use them on offense.

Bring horsemen along with your impi, and you have your 2.2.2 stack.

[star mouse]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
How about making it 25 shields?

I don't think that's possible in the editor - the CIV3 editor only allows shield costs to rise in jumps of 10. Don't know about the PtW editor, but this is likely to be the case here, too.

[Bamspeedy]

It's impossible for units to be at 25 shields, but you could do it for improvements by using the religious/scientific/militaristic traits (half-price of a 50-shield building). But the graphics aren't designed for these, so the city view screen gets screwed up when you try to see how many shields you've built towards that, because those graphics were designed only for shield increments of 10 (and a few other numbers, because of the AI discounts on higher levels).

[johncmcleod]

I'm surprised you can't type in 2.5 in the editor

[The Mad Monk]

You can type 0 in the editor, you still need a shield in the game.