The helicopters

[Alfonso]

I do not like the utility that has the helicopters. These are my suggestions to improve this unit and to make it more interesting.

That the Paratrooper does not spend turn to the being transported in Helicopter.

Its capacity would have to be of 3 units.

That some boats can transport two helicopters, of that way soldiers could be sent from the air anywhere and would give a more real aspect to the game.

Increase its radius of activity.

[bobbo008]

yes, as it is, i've built one, and that was on accident, i guess i'm using it for recon missions hoping against all hope i get to watch it get shot down

[Solomwi]

I like the helicopter for limited uses, but agree that a wider radius would be nice, as would the unit being airdropped retaining its movement points. I don't think they should increse capacity, though. It's not a major transport unit, and shouldn't be, considering the scale represented by one unit. What it is good for, that I've found: airdropping an attack force of Marines or defense force of Infantry to increase penetration of an initial assault, recon, as mentioned above (I hate dropping a unit into enemy territory, only to find a Spearman in your drop zone and losing the unit), and "mobile airport" (load the chopper, then rebase it to a city on the front line and presto, instant defense or reinforcement). My favorite uses of this last one was during a war with India. I took a strategically necessary city with MA that was still completely enclosed by India's borders. The assault left fewer units healthy enough to defend than I was comfortable with, so I was able, through rebasing choppers, to reinforce them with an entire Airborne Division (8 Paratroopers) and hold the city. Choppering in reinforcements over a strip of enemy held territory also seems to mesh with the helicopter's natural use, where rebasing a unit immediately to another continent feels almost like an exploit.

[bobbo008]

you had 8 paratroopers? how far along on the tech tree were you?

[johncmcleod]

I have been griping about helicopters not being able to go on carriers and units having to use their movement points when getting dropped for years. Maybe someone will hack the game and make these things possible.

What I like to do is drop paratroopers on top of resources and pillage roads. Then you use the paratroopers airdrop function to move it to another resource spot.

I don't think they should increse capacity, though.

To make helicopters and the prerequisite somewhat useful I changed the transport capacity to 2.

[The Mad Monk]

I had no idea they retain transported units when you rebase them -- suddenly, they seem a hell of a lot more useful.

[Solomwi]

Mad Monk, that's another reason I keep a handful of Infantry units around once I get Computers (MI won't load into a chopper, and rightfully so). Got a trouble spot needing immediate shoring up? Nothing better than a rebased helicopter with an infantry brigade aboard.

Bobbo, when do you mean? When I got my first eight or when I was researching future techs and had about 64 Paras? That particular game was one I had decided to use to toy with military tactics, especially involving units I had never used. Before I just gunned for a slew of MA and MI (and generally tried to avoid war until I had overwhelming tech superiority), built some nukes and went rolling over anybody who stood in my way. Reading some bombardment unit threads planted the seed in my mind, though, that I was really missing out using that approach, so I forced myself to use practically every unit available.

What I found was that artillery units opened up a whole new world of combat options, marines are EXCELLENT if used logically, helicopters are limited, but well worth building, and paras can be used well and are cool to watch, but don't do anything I can't do with other units, even if they might do it cheaper at times.

To reflect today's reality, paratroopers should be able to drop practically anywhere in the world, but as a trade-off not be able to move after the drop (simulating the transit time from a base well inside the country to some remote Mongol stronghold). Without modding the ADM, I don't think this would make them overpowered, but would make them a lot more useful. Basically, they would be a rapid response force with no real results guaranteed.

Just to go on a flight of fancy for a second, imagine paras as described above with the "acts of war" diplomacy that's been discussed before (where small scale attacks don't necessarily cause full blown war). Xerxes getting a bit uppity? Show him how long your arm is by dropping some troops deep inside his borders and pillaging that precious oil supply. That little island city with your backup uranium just flipped to the Russians and your nearest port is five turns away? Jump the 3rd Airborne in and have it back next turn. Of course, if Catherine popped out an MI, or even an Inf, in the flip, you're going to take HEAVY casualties, and may not be able to take it back. A little too much pressure on your border cities from Bismarck's Panzers? Open a second front immediately, without the help of those foot-dragging English and Americans.

[johncmcleod]

Would it make paras too good if I did what Solomwi said and modded them to 8.8.1?

[Solomwi]

Probably not, John, since by the time you get paratroopers, the AI should be defending with MI, and definitely will have infantry in its top cities (unless they have no rubber, hey to Catherine in my current game ). So, 8 attack isn't overbearing, really.

I tend to like them at 6, just to keep the aspect of them being basically infantry troops who have this one specialty. I also like 8 defense for that same reason (the -2 coming from a slight scale down in equipment for jump purposes, etc.). Relative to each other, I like the stats of the four "modern" foot units (Infantry, Paratroopers, Marines and Guerillas), but that's just me .

[Panag]

hi ,

the chinook should be able to transport a mech infantry or artillery unit , .......

when it does not transport that , two foot soldiers

a regular heli would be nice in anti tank role and the transport of one foot unit

have a nice day

[Solomwi]

Artillery, yes, mechanized infantry, no. The Bradley weighs over twice the Chinook's external cargo capacity.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Artillery, yes, mechanized infantry, no. The Bradley weighs over twice the Chinook's external cargo capacity.

hi ,

155 and humvee is lifted on regular basis , so that should not be a problem , .....

maybe they should split the mech infantry up again , keep the bradley and add the hummer from civ II , .....

have a nice day

[Solomwi]

Then you're not so much mechanized infantry as just motorized. Besides, each of those pieces of equipment weighs roughly a fifth of the Bradley, and the BFV is what makes MI mechanized. MI and MA are best suited only being able to take advantage of airports, both for realism and gameplay.

[johncmcleod]

Who says it's just one chinook? I think it's more than one, just as one infantry isn't one guy and one bomber is probably more like a squadron.

[Solomwi]

Oh, most definitely, but by the same token, it's not just one BFV. My point is that for heavy equipment, as would be found with an MI or MA unit, the C-5 Galaxy is the air transport method, not the Chinook... voila, airports . From the gameplay aspect, MI is already very powerful, and to let them load into a helicopter would just increase the distance between it and the foot units.

Along the lines of my previous post, I used to get irked that heli's couldn't carry MA, and therefore didn't build them, until I realized there was more flavor to C3 warfare than searching for the one omnipotent unit.