CivIII at 'poly

[FrustratedPoet]

I would like to point out that the GOTM is a game that does not require a mod to play

From looking at CFC it appears that you need to download a specfic graphics pack to play the GOTM games.

I would also like to point out that playing with the AU mod is in no way compulsory for AU games. It is entirely optional. We don't even specify the difficulty setting any more, which is a good thing IMHO.

I think poly should challenge cfc to a duel off. The 20 or so best players from cfc play the 20 best from poly in 1v1 duels.

Several of the better players post at both forums. I don't think site rivalries are very healthy either.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

I think poly should challenge cfc to a duel off. The 20 or so best players from cfc play the 20 best from poly in 1v1 duels.

Several of the better players post at both forums. I don't think site rivalries are very healthy either.

A duel off is essentially what the ISDG is. I don't think we should have another one, but if that were to happen then restricting it to the 20 "best" players isn't the best option. We're trying to create a "join us, we're having fun" atmosphere not create another clique. Who is to say who the 20 best players on Apolyton are anyway? Everyone who wants to should have the opportunity to contribute.

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
With the AU its quite different, first its not supported by the site managers as the GOTM is, The mod has to be downloaded, and it is buried in the strat forum. Also their is a feeling of elietism that exudes from some of the AU community.

As to AU mod, you don't have to have it to play the AU courses (actually the latest one doesn't support the AU mod anyway). I haven't really noticed any elitism in AU either. Most of the strat forum posters (who are most of the AU players) are happy to take a look at saves and help others when it's asked for. Boosting AU to be supported by the site managers is one of the things Theseus was trying to do with his post. I think it can only help the Civ3 community here if it gets done.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Rhothaerill


As to AU mod, you don't have to have it to play the AU courses (actually the latest one doesn't support the AU mod anyway). I haven't really noticed any elitism in AU either. Most of the strat forum posters (who are most of the AU players) are happy to take a look at saves and help others when it's asked for. Boosting AU to be supported by the site managers is one of the things Theseus was trying to do with his post. I think it can only help the Civ3 community here if it gets done.

Which is the latest? There are so many of them its hard to keep track. I'm not saying that the members themselves are eliteist but that the 'poly community in general feels that it is. Many of the best players belong to the Au community and it seems to many (or at least to myself) that it is basically for players at emperor or above level. I'm not saying that Theseus should stop his efforts just realize that there are differences to the AU games and the GOTM. As for the GOTM requiring a graphics mod, I should say that I haven't posted on CFC in a long time so this may have changed.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

Which is the latest? There are so many of them its hard to keep track. I'm not saying that the members themselves are eliteist but that the 'poly community in general feels that it is. Many of the best players belong to the Au community and it seems to many (or at least to myself) that it is basically for players at emperor or above level. I'm not saying that Theseus should stop his efforts just realize that there are differences to the AU games and the GOTM. As for the GOTM requiring a graphics mod, I should say that I haven't posted on CFC in a long time so this may have changed.

It's AU402, and I agree it is somewhat hard to locate as well as knowing which AU course is the latest etc. That is one of the things that we want to change...to make it more user-friendly. I would think that we don't want to make it EXACTLY like the gotm games. We want to make it 'Poly's version.

Some of the players do play Emperor and above, but the beauty of the AU is that it can be played at any level. Many of the 'During Action Report' posters certainly don't play at Emperor level. I don't.

[Tassadar500]

Well if someone else would help me I could try to improve the AU.

[Jawa Jocky]

If scoring is the issue we could always restart the mini-tourneys.

[Arrian]

Mad Bomber,

I play my games on Monarch, with only occasional forays up to Emperor. I've seen plenty of AARs by Regent level players, and the occasional Warlord. Many of the regulars play at Emperor, yeah, but I like that, because a detailed AAR of a game played at a high level can reveal a lot about the game. Nathan, Catt, Alexman... I like reading about their games (and others, those were just off the top of my head!) and learning. And I don't see any arrogance or elitism in their posts.

AU games are typically created to be played with or without the mod, with or without PTW, and on any level of play.

I think that what Theseus wants is to make AU more accessible. Some of this has been done, it's just that a couple of key threads probably should be topped in the strategy forum and/or linked to from the main page.

-Arrian

[Tassadar500]

We could also make a grade system. To have it more like a university

[Arrian]

I personally don't like the idea of scoring or grades. In fact, that's probably why I have little to no interest in GotM.

To me, AU isn't about scoring/grading, but rather about playing a game along with other people and discussing it during and after. No pressure, but still plenty of opportunity to learn.

-Arrian

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
We could also make a grade system. To have it more like a university

That's certainly an idea that can be discussed. We'd have to find a way to implement it well though. Part of the problem is the subjectiveness. Just because you start in the same area, different things happen to each player. That's part of the fun of course and part of the learning, but it might make it difficult to grade. For example on AU402 I've had extremely poor galley luck which has made contact with other civs very tough. Some of the other players had contacts well before the time I did.

[Tassadar500]

No one else would need to see it. We could have a A B C F or what ever for each game. Depending on the score.

[Jawa Jocky]

Originally posted by Arrian
I personally don't like the idea of scoring or grades. In fact, that's probably why I have little to no interest in GotM.

To me, AU isn't about scoring/grading, but rather about playing a game along with other people and discussing it during and after. No pressure, but still plenty of opportunity to learn.

-Arrian

This is why AU was created.

This is why I suggested reviving MT if rankings, etc is a major issue. Keep AU in the Strategy and bring back MT or create something new in the General.

[Dominae]

The one and only reason GOTM gets more attention than AU is because it is competitive, including a highly-refined ranking system.

This is quite natural, if you think about it. Most people that play strategy computer games have the drive to win, else they would be tinkering around with The Sims or some other inane title (apologies to all Sims fans...). After getting bored of the SP experience, you can either turn MP (which, to most, is unsatisfying) or comparative games like GOTM (even 'Poly had these before the Powers-That-Be decided it was not worth the effort). The success of GOTM is proof that people love comparing their skills against everybody else's.

The goal of AU is to learn about the game, not simply "be the best". At first I thought GOTMs were rather boring because the best players would never reveal their "secrets" (just look at SVC, which is surprisingly devoid of any strategy-talk...no offense to Aeson). Happily, this trend is gone and now and the GOTMs are now a pretty good community for learning (as far as I can tell). At the same time, some competition has arisen in AU, although nothing too drastic.

The question is therefore: do we make AU a more competitive arena? Doing so makes it more like GOTM, which kind of sucks because the CFC and 'Poly would have to start competing with each other for players (and who at 'Poly is willing to put in as much effort as Cracker!?). Leaving AU as it is, however, means that it will never be as popular as GOTM. I see no middle ground, although I would very much like to hear suggestions.

Incidentally, it's quite funny that people think that AU is more complicated than GOTM. The first and only GOTM I tried to play I had to read about 10 web pages full of FAQs, then had to screw around for about half an hour to install the required graphics packages (a process which is horribly explained by the organizers...something to improve on, in case you're reading). Although it may be a bit harder to find an AU course (because they're not linked to from the main 'Poly page), at least once you're there it's a simple download and you're ready to play within a couple of minutes.


Dominae

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Dominae

The question is therefore: do we make AU a more competitive arena? Doing so makes it more like GOTM, which kind of sucks because the CFC and 'Poly would have to start competing with each other for players (and who at 'Poly is willing to put in as much effort as Cracker!?). Leaving AU as it is, however, means that it will never be as popular as GOTM. I see no middle ground, although I would very much like to hear suggestions.

That is why I think that IF we do try to institute a competition style AU that we should keep non-competitive courses as well. Not everyone will want to play competitive courses and might even be turned off by them. But I would imagine that people who didn't want to participate in the competitions might follow them in threads (depending on how it is set up). I think this whole idea needs a lot more discussion though before anything is implemented. We'd need to iron out a lot of different possibilities to make it work as well as promoting the heck out of AU courses. Plus we'd need input from Mark and Dan whether or not AU can become a "front page" option or not.

More thoughts anyone?

[vmxa1]

That is what happened to me when I wanted to try a few of the recent Gotm. I read all the FAQ stuff and started to install all the pieces and decide I did not want that much bother.
I figure it would be some learnig curve to figure out what all the units were about.
The other small part was not knowing what happened after the cut off date. It was like reading part of book and losing the book, what happen?