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**Rhothaerill** · June 15, 2003, 19:22

It's tough to lose your units to a flip like that, but it does add a degree of uncertainty to the game. It's a thin line we walk when warring with high culture AI Civs. We have to be careful not to leave too many units in a city if we're afraid it will flip, but at the same time we have to be able to protect it. I will occasionally put most of my defending units outside the city (depends on the situation), and if it does flip back then I'm ready to retake the city again.

**bobbo008** · June 16, 2003, 03:57

i'm questioning the "realness" of this though...

**Rhothaerill** · June 16, 2003, 13:15

I suppose it could be "realistic" in certain situations and "unrealistic" in others. Like I said above though I was just trying to justify for myself why a certain game situation is the way it is. It's not that I necessarily like it, but it's part of the game right now. If it gets changed then so much the better.

**PLATO** · June 16, 2003, 13:29

I don't think that losing your units is unrealistic at all. The citizens have risen up and gained control. Not all units will die. Some may surrender. When that happens they will obviously be disarmed and then imprisoned, executed, or sent packing for home as civilians. However they are dealt with, they cease to function as a military unit.

**Panag** · June 16, 2003, 19:07

hi ,

if one builds courthouses and other buildings , gets lux , makes his or her citizens happy there is no need to be worried about flipping , .....

have a nice day

**Rhothaerill** · June 16, 2003, 19:13

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

if one builds courthouses and other buildings , gets lux , makes his or her citizens happy there is no need to be worried about flipping , .....

have a nice day

There is always a chance it could flip. Awhile back I was playing a Monarch Chinese game and annihilating the Arabs. The Arabs were right next to me and had little culture compared to me because I took many of their cities (including their capital. then their next capital, and then their third capital

). Around 100 or so turns after I took this one particular city and had built courthouse, police station, marketplace, etc., had 7 luxuries, and was building the Iron Works (nice city), it decided to flip on me!

**bobbo008** · June 16, 2003, 19:22

"I don't think that losing your units is unrealistic at all. The citizens have risen up and gained control. Not all units will die. Some may surrender. When that happens they will obviously be disarmed and then imprisoned, executed, or sent packing for home as civilians. However they are dealt with, they cease to function as a military unit."

some may leave, too. i'm saying having the city stay with you and all your units alive or having the city "flip" over and all of your units gone isn't realistic. too black and white.

**Panag** · June 16, 2003, 19:26

Originally posted by Rhothaerill

There is always a chance it could flip. Awhile back I was playing a Monarch Chinese game and annihilating the Arabs. The Arabs were right next to me and had little culture compared to me because I took many of their cities (including their capital. then their next capital, and then their third capital

). Around 100 or so turns after I took this one particular city and had built courthouse, police station, marketplace, etc., had 7 luxuries, and was building the Iron Works (nice city), it decided to flip on me!

hi ,

and where was your second palace , .....

it can still happend , aldo the chances of doing so are less when you build firts a couple workers from captured cities , let a settler from your civ join and spread the new workers with the identity of the old civ join your cities far away , that tends to help a lot , .....

as you shall get more experience you shall manage at one point to have no more flips from your side , but loads of flips from them , ....

have a nice day

**Rhothaerill** · June 16, 2003, 19:34

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

and where was your second palace , .....

it can still happend , aldo the chances of doing so are less when you build firts a couple workers from captured cities , let a settler from your civ join and spread the new workers with the identity of the old civ join your cities far away , that tends to help a lot , .....

as you shall get more experience you shall manage at one point to have no more flips from your side , but loads of flips from them , ....

have a nice day

Umm, I may not be Aeson or Dominae, but I don't consider myself "inexperienced".

This was a completely random flip. My palace was closer to this city than the Arab's newest palace, it had been roughly 100 turns as I had mentioned, I had over twice the culture of the Arabs, and more of the citizens in the city were Chinese than Arab. It made no sense to me why it flipped, but it did.

On another game (also Monarch), I was playing the Carthaginians and battling the Babylonians in the industrial age. I took their entire empire with not one flip (and that option was turned on) even though they had half again as much culture as I did.

**Panag** · June 16, 2003, 19:40

Originally posted by Rhothaerill

Umm, I may not be Aeson or Dominae, but I don't consider myself "inexperienced".

This was a completely random flip. My palace was closer to this city than the Arab's newest palace, it had been roughly 100 turns as I had mentioned, I had over twice the culture of the Arabs, and more of the citizens in the city were Chinese than Arab. It made no sense to me why it flipped, but it did.

On another game (also Monarch), I was playing the Carthaginians and battling the Babylonians in the industrial age. I took their entire empire with not one flip (and that option was turned on) even though they had half again as much culture as I did.

hi ,

where does it say that you are "inexperienced" , ....

it does happend and this is normal if there are still a lot of citizens of the old civ in a particular city , ....

its a reflection of the real world , ....

have a nice day

**Rhothaerill** · June 16, 2003, 20:19

Originally posted by panag
where does it say that you are "inexperienced" , ....

From your quote above...

Originally posted by panag
as you shall get more experience you shall manage at one point to have no more flips from your side , but loads of flips from them

I wasn't offended by the comment, I was just wondering why you thought I was inexperienced. I may only be chieftain status on 'Poly, but I've been playing Civ3 off and on for a few years now and haunting 'Poly (without registering and posting) for almost that same amount of time.

Maybe I just read too much into the comment. If so then sorry. Shake on it.

**Panag** · June 16, 2003, 20:30

Originally posted by Rhothaerill

From your quote above...

I wasn't offended by the comment, I was just wondering why you thought I was inexperienced. I may only be chieftain status on 'Poly, but I've been playing Civ3 off and on for a few years now and haunting 'Poly (without registering and posting) for almost that same amount of time.

Maybe I just read too much into the comment. If so then sorry. Shake on it.

hi ,

read again , ....

as you get more experience > meaning as you play more games , this has nothing to do with your poly status btw , even people who play ten games on a row in deity can still learn something new when they play game twelve on warlord , .....

we are all different and we each have our own little tricks and experience to deal with for an instance the same problem , .........

so , as you get more experience while playing civ and ptw you shall yourself ( each individual on an other way ) develop your own solutions and adapt to the situation , with or without the input from others , .......

panag wipes sweat of head , hoping this is a clear explanation , ..... >

have a nice day

**Rhothaerill** · June 16, 2003, 20:41

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

read again , ....

as you get more experience > meaning as you play more games , this has nothing to do with your poly status btw , even people who play ten games on a row in deity can still learn something new when they play game twelve on warlord , .....

we are all different and we each have our own little tricks and experience to deal with for an instance the same problem , .........

so , as you get more experience while playing civ and ptw you shall yourself ( each individual on an other way ) develop your own solutions and adapt to the situation , with or without the input from others , .......

panag wipes sweat of head , hoping this is a clear explanation , ..... >

have a nice day

It is.

I was assuming that you were saying experience based on my current 'Poly status.

I agree with you totally about developing our own tricks and the like, as well as learning new things on 'Poly which is why I started frequenting the site in the first place. I've learned a lot here over the years, and developed some of my own "SOP" and "tricks".

Back to that game I was talking about though (and unfortunately I don't have screenshots since it was a while ago), but I still think it was a random flip. I had everything going for it not to flip as I mentioned in a post above, but it flipped anyway. I think it was just an RNG thing. There's always that slim chance of it flipping, even if you have everything going your way. But that's part of the fun of Civ3. If everything always went my way then it wouldn't be fun to play.

**johncmcleod** · June 16, 2003, 22:50

When I got civ3 the first thing I wished it had was some sort of rebellion or civil war, etc. The problem is that a lot of the time the causes for a rebellion would be very hard to incorporate into civ3. For example, how could you implement the War Between the States into civ3? Anyway, in civ3 a government always has perfect control of its nation, but in real life sometimes the government doesn't have control of an area of its empire because of poor police or the area has rebelled and made itself its own nation. And, it's safe to say most of today's nations did not start off in 4,000 BC. They were part of another country and then rebelled (look at the Americas).

**Deathwalker** · June 17, 2003, 05:36

I miss the barbs taking control of cities, it one of the things I wish they had left in the game

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