Privateers: Useful or just bananas?

[Falco]

I have lost very powerful units to poky little sub-species so I cannot see why 5 privateers couldn't take out a Battleship.

I know it isn't reasonable but I had a number of tanks destroyed by spearmen a few campaigns ago, murdered my ego somewhat!

[TheArsenal]

easily sinking banana

Because my Clear My Continent First policy means any naval force of note doesn't come into play until/after destroyers, its a pretty useless unit for me. Sinks easily, and I've seen the AI travel quite a distance just to do it. It hates them.

I'm not sure if/how the AI tallies hidden nationality units when calculating the size of your military. Because if it doesn't put them in your strength column, instead of building a privateer fleet, I would think it would be better to build a force which cows the AI and aids in deterrence.

[Argos65987]

I've found that if you decrease the build cost for a privateer that the AI does end up using quite a number of them (especially if the AI runs England).

[Panag]

Originally posted by The_Falco
I have lost very powerful units to poky little sub-species so I cannot see why 5 privateers couldn't take out a Battleship.

I know it isn't reasonable but I had a number of tanks destroyed by spearmen a few campaigns ago, murdered my ego somewhat!

hi ,

are you patched , ....

it happens sometimes that you loose a tank to a spearman , but spearman destroying tanks , .....

next time you see this you should post a SAVe , ....

or a screenshot

have a nice day

[bobbo008]

"it happens sometimes that you loose a tank to a spearman , but spearman destroying tanks , .....

next time you see this you should post a SAVe , ...."

i'm assuming you mean when spearmen are the ones attacking is what you want to see? i'm not sure if he/she meant that...

I think judging military strength, the AI takes hidden nationality units into consideration since if you have a spy planted, you can see their privateers and all other units.

to another question, yes the AI will seriously hate you. I had a Hidden Nationality unit (guerilla) take over one of my cities. and while i never fought that civ in a war (Iroqious), my advisor told me that they had attacked me before. after I attacked a couple times, they were annoyed, but not a big problem, take over a city, and there's no way they'll even be as good as annoyed for quite some time...

edit: oh, and the non-involved AI civs dont seem to care too much either way.

in my last game, Scandinavia had 10 privateers and they were all building Guerillas, which were hidden nationality, too, in this game

[Aramis]

Originally posted by bobbo008
I think judging military strength, the AI takes hidden nationality units into consideration since if you have a spy planted, you can see their privateers and all other units.

I am assuming the AI knows all and sees all, but does a good job of faking that it doesn't (hence I don't see stacking my own frigate on them as taking any adavantage).
The privateers are often out at sea for long periods before seeing action (mine, anyway). If I were to mod guerillas to hidden nationality, and assuming the modded guerillas will see much more action, how will this further affect standing with the attacked civ, and other civs as well? Your experience in this matter appreciated--
Rob

[bobbo008]

if you attack a civ with hidden nationality guerillas, or any unit for that matter, they will hate you. the first couple attacks is alright, maybe they'll just be annoyed. after a few battles and especially after you take a city, they'll hate you.

the game i was playing on was on deity, and while other AI civs slowly became cautious, i think that was simply because of a lack of trading. fortunately, i had the whole world's supply of silks, so i could export them to all of the countries and they were all polite.

the nation i was fighting with were the Iroqious. They were furious but would still agree to MPP and ROP if i would ask for it...

The AI learned quickly how to use Guerillas. It learned that it could take my cities and not start a war (The advisor told me that i shouldnt trust them because they attacked me before, but i never had an actual war with them).

Hidden nationality guerillas are great. they treat all terrain like roads which is even better. The guerillas (with 8 attack and defense respectively, which i changed) are the most fun to use, in my opinion. With less defense, it helps to stay up in hills/mountains, and you mainly prey on workers and pillage improvements, working much like it would in real life. In my opinion, it just FEELS like a guerilla war.

In my mind, I had it going something like the guerillas were Iroqious revolutionaries that wished to form an "American Union" with the larger more powerful American nation (me).

[Falco]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

are you patched , ....

it happens sometimes that you loose a tank to a spearman , but spearman destroying tanks , .....

next time you see this you should post a SAVe , ....

or a screenshot

have a nice day

Answers in order:

1. I am patched up to the last one they released but they haven't done 121f in the UK yet .

2. It doesn't happen a lot but it does happen.

3. I can post a SAV but to whom? How does one post a screenshot? Surely it will just show the space where my tank was being occupied by a spearman wont it??

4. STILL telling me what to do eh!! Grr!

[King_Henry]

If I have a good tech lead over every one, I'll send them out and burn some galleys. If you're just even with everyone, You've got one shot to use them well otherwise, they will be destroyed in large numbers against ironclads. But if I'm behind, I won't bother. I'll focus on something better.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by dexters
Using Sullla's measuring stick for this, stacking your own ship on your privateers is definately an exploit, since this is a blind spot for the AI and it has no idea how to deal with it.

IMO, having large fleets of privateers roaming the high seas is also an exploit. Given the AI is not very keen on using this and it becomes a one sided affair.

Also, the privateers appear to have been intended as harassment units, and not units people go around sinking entire navys with. I would certainly propose a fix whereby if attacks are frequent enough, it is tantamount to a declaration of war, and the victim civ will tell everyone aobut it and players would also take a reputation hit.

Seems reasonable to me.

The low reputation could cause them to declare war.

I wouldn't call stacking an exploit, really. It makes sense. The Privateers are just pirates. You are protecting the pirates.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Rob_S

I am assuming the AI knows all and sees all, but does a good job of faking that it doesn't (hence I don't see stacking my own frigate on them as taking any adavantage).
The privateers are often out at sea for long periods before seeing action (mine, anyway). If I were to mod guerillas to hidden nationality, and assuming the modded guerillas will see much more action, how will this further affect standing with the attacked civ, and other civs as well? Your experience in this matter appreciated--
Rob

It doesn't even do ANY job of faking that it doesn't. There are only two things that Hidden Nationality does: a) changes the color scheme of the unit to Barbarian (this means the Human can't tell what it is) and b) makes it so that combat with the unit does not constitute an automatic declaration of war.

[dexters]

Originally posted by skywalker


It doesn't even do ANY job of faking that it doesn't. There are only two things that Hidden Nationality does: a) changes the color scheme of the unit to Barbarian (this means the Human can't tell what it is) and b) makes it so that combat with the unit does not constitute an automatic declaration of war.

Simply not true.

The AI is not a human. It knows all and sees all, yes, because we also happen to rely on it to play our game and at the same time want it to somehow play a fair game.

That said, there are significant evidence that the AI units and AI leaders have imperfect information. Their settler galleys will sometimes move ahead several turns before turning back (after it finds out the location it wants to settle in is gone). Invasion forces will contine to move towards you even after you make peace.

There is a lag time.

The AI does get a bonus in terms of finding out where you weak points are and are likely to attack there. That said, I'm not entirely convinced it is blatant cheating. The rules seem to be set up such that the AI doesn't really know where your units are when it is making other decisions (diplomacy, trade, moving its military around to defend its cities) and it will only get a little extra help when it calls the "attack function" and have to decide where to attack.

[Panag]

Originally posted by dexters


Simply not true.

The AI is not a human. It knows all and sees all, yes, because we also happen to rely on it to play our game and at the same time want it to somehow play a fair game.

That said, there are significant evidence that the AI units and AI leaders have imperfect information. Their settler galleys will sometimes move ahead several turns before turning back (after it finds out the location it wants to settle in is gone). Invasion forces will contine to move towards you even after you make peace.

There is a lag time.

The AI does get a bonus in terms of finding out where you weak points are and are likely to attack there. That said, I'm not entirely convinced it is blatant cheating. The rules seem to be set up such that the AI doesn't really know where your units are when it is making other decisions (diplomacy, trade, moving its military around to defend its cities) and it will only get a little extra help when it calls the "attack function" and have to decide where to attack.

hi ,

seconded all the way

and the problem with hidden nat units is that when you use them , for example your privateers , your rep take a blow , .....

in one particular game far away civs that where angry go more or the less neutral after the 50+ privateers where disbanded , .....

have a nice day

[Jac de Molay]

Never use them.

[Aramis]

Thanks for your thoughts, all of you.