Where to place Wittlich Ost

[Dis]

the only bad thing is we'll have to rush things to get anything built. I guess the majority is for the hill.

We'll have build build some walls and a temple to epand the borders.

[Wittlich]

I agree the only things that have to be built in Wittlich Ost are walls(first) and a temple(second). A harbor can be built at another more productive city and connected to Wittlich Ost via raods. A barracks would be a nicety, but if we're not feeling any pressure from the other civs, this can be delayed indefinately.

[Jon Miller]

are you sure temple instead of library?

library is faster, and we shouldn't have happiness problems there for a while

Jon Miller

[HarryH]

Macy wrote:
the city is there to control the channel, and start a foothold, nothing else.

I do not consider control of the channel to be that important. Wittlich City already provides some control of the channel. Any civ that wants to invade us can come from above or below without going through the channel. If we are not at war with the civ then control of the channel does not matter.

The defensive benefits of the hill will only matter if we are attacked quickly or Ost is the only city we put on Bob. I would rather plan for a few more cities.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
are you sure temple instead of library?

library is faster, and we shouldn't have happiness problems there for a while

Jon Miller

For Scientific civs(like us) Library costs the same as a temple.

So we need to decide between :
a) Happiness(1) and 2 culture.
2) 3 culture.

The Library science bonus is negligible until the city gets to size 3-4.

[HarryH]

I setup a little test scenario with an island that looks like the part of Bob we can see which is the hill plus the seven plains and the cow. I put a settler on the hill. I created the capital on another island in the location as The Voice so the distance to the capital is the same. I went through the test twice, once with the city on the hill and once taking a turn to move the settler and building under the cow.

Hill: Build order is walls, library, barracks.

Turn
1 Build city. Start walls.
Food = 3 (1 surplus). Production = 2 (no waste)
11 Walls complete. Start library.
21 City grows to size 2.
Food = 4 (no surplus). Production = 2 (3 - 1 waste).
31 Library complete. Start barracks.
34 Borders expand. Laborer moved to cow.
Food = 5 (1 surplus). Production = 3 (4 - 1 waste).
46 Barracks complete.
54 City grows to size 3.
Food = 6 (no surplus). Production = 4 (5 - 1 waste).

Plains: Build order is walls, barracks, library.

Turn
1 Move settler to plains.
2 Build city. Start walls.
Food = 4 (2 surplus). Production = 2 (3 - 1 waste)
12 City grows to size 2.
Food = 5 (1 surplus). Production = 3 (4 - 1 waste)
Walls complete. Start barracks.
26 Barracks complete. Start library.
32 City grows to size 3.
Food = 6 (no surplus). Production = 4 (5 - 1 waste)
38 Library complete.

As you can see even allowing for the one turn to move the settler we can complete the three builds 8 turns quicker on the plains next to the cow. The plains location also provides more land tiles in the city's radius so future production potential is higher.

If we decide to go with a settler instead of the library on the plains location it could complete the settler on turn 35 or 36, nearly 20 turns before the hill location reaches size 3. This increases our ability to expand on Bob.

I think it is likely we could switch to Republic in less than 34 turns. If we do then the plains location will have even better growth from the cow since the hill location will not get that growth until turn 34. Plus the anarchy will delay the building of the hill library and the resulting border expansion so it will delay its growth even more. The plains location will get to use the cow through the anarchy period so its growth will not be affected.

[HarryH]

Eli wrote:
For Scientific civs(like us) Library costs the same as a temple.

No. Library costs 40, temple 60. The library can be built faster (or cheaper if rushing) and it will expand the borders one turn quicker.

[Eli]

No. Library costs 40, temple 60. The library can be built faster (or cheaper if rushing) and it will expand the borders one turn quicker.

You are right both on this issue and on the Wittlich Ost placement issue.

I change my vote from "On the hill" to "South of cow".

[Wittlich]

Ok Harry, you've make a very compelling point. I too would like to change my vote from "On the Hill" (though it would look sooo cool) to "South of Cow."

[Wittlich]

Besides, this location still allows for extended coverage of the Strait.

[HarryH]

Edit: wrong thread.

[HarryH]

Since we are about to build the city I want to discuss the name. Instead of Wittlich Ost shouldn't it be Wittlich West as it is west of Wittlich City? Or maybe Bob Ost since it is on the eastern most portion of Bob (as far as we can tell).

[Wittlich]

Actually, since the city site is only one tile from its orginal position, I believe we should keep the same name as before - this will also indicate to the other players that it is a suburb of one of our continental cities (pshycological warfare).

[HarryH]

Witt, you missed my point. Ost means east but the city is west of Wittlich City.

[Beta]

Hah - you are right Harry - for some reason east and west has been hard to keep oriented at time.

So - as I agree 100% with Witt about the naming convention - I think we should name the new city Wittlich West, and the old one Wittlich East.