Foreign Affairs Communications (Vol 3)

[Jon Miller]

This thread is for publishing communications with other civs. The thread for dicussion of these communications is here http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=77714 .

Jon Miller

[Beta]

Received from Legoland.

Re: Proposal
My dear Sir,

The wise men of Legoland have carefully studied and debated your proposal and reached the following consensus:

Regretfully we have to decline your offer. It is not that we don't want to talk or trade with Vox Controli, but we have so little information that can be made public, that it wouldn't be a fair deal.

The minimap trading would have been perfect because our primary goal is to find out your geographical position in the world and we don't mind if you find out ours, but, with all respect, we are not prepared to give away sensitive information about how our landmass' size, topography and such. Btw we have exchanged minimaps with all the others teams, except yours.

I agree with you, "we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being friends and open with each other". Thus even without a trade I will tell you the following information:
- we are alone on our landmass
- we are separated by others by a vast looking ocean
- we haven't made contact yet with any other civ
- no, we are not in a "deep technological hole"
- we are eager to make contact with the other civs, therefor our first galley is almost ready to sail
- we have only one type of luxury (but fortunately plenty of it)
- we do have some information on what is happening on the 4-civ continent, but our knowledge of what's happening is far from complete.

If you feel like telling us similar things about you, we will appreciate it, but for the moment there is actually hardly anything else to report.

If you think that in certain fields we could exchange more info please let us know. For a more "direct" communication (scheduled chats, for ex.) please contact Redstar (our FA) or Vondrack (our President). Especially Vondrack is almost always online.

Cheers and good luck

Tiberius

quote:

BetaHound wrote on 15-02-2003 15:25:
No - I don't mind at all. What I mean is that I will provide detailed written description of where we are in the world, what our land looks like, who are neighbours are, what kind of relations we have with them, etc. And you do the same. It is widely understood that you are on a landmasss by yourself, but we asssume you have made contact with other civs over a straight of water of some sort. Otherwise - you would be in a deep technological hole.

Hope ths clarifies what I mean. Let's talk. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being friends and open with each other. We are not nearby neighbours, so we won't be vying for the same piece of geography in the near future. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Cheers! ... Beta.

[Beta]

Sent to Legoland:

Tiberius, my friend.

Good news. The 'rules' fundamentalist movement in Vox has crumbled, and a mini-map is on its way to you from Dissident. Commerce rules!

We are very keen on establishing solid and long-term relations with you. We industrious civs need to stick together, eh. Speaking of which - we have a good relationship with the people of the Gathering Storm, our neighbours.

I can give you much more detail on our technical achievements. We are world leaders in this regard - and are currently researching Philosophy, as part of a joint-team research arrangement on our way to The Republic.

If you could sail in our direction with your first galley - we think that would be due west from your locale - the mini-maps should help here - and help see if your galley can make it - then we could establish formal trading relationships. We could also guarantee you a good trading deal on a wide selection of technology at a very good rates. We believe that reasonable deals pave the way to a solid friendship. In fact - we are willing to offer very, very good deals if we were to be your first contact.

Please give this some consideration, and I can provide more details later. Alas - it is late - and I must be off to bed. The mini-map should be on its way. We look forward to yours in return. Dissident at Krusher3x ()at()yahoo.com is the best address to use.

Cheers my dear sir. And regards to the industrious folks of Legoland. We salute you!

Sincerely - BetaHound, Voice of Foreign affairs, Vox Controli

edit by dissident. I just edited my e-mail to avoid spam bots.

[Beta]

Received from Neu Demogyptica, via e-mail.

Dear BetaHound,
Dear Voxians, dear friends,

let me introduce myself. I am Louis, citizen of Neu Demogyptica and
designated ambassador for the empire of Vox Controli. I'm really looking
forward to settle down in the embassy of Neu Demogyptica in your glorious
country.

First I have to apologize that the people of ND were so quiet for a long
time and could not answer your messages. All of your letters arrived, even
if they had to cross the ocean, but, alas!, our scribes found no time to
answer them, because they were forced to put away their plumes and take up
their swords instead to go to war. As you surely already heard, the
untrustworthy people from Lux Invita first invaded our country with their
warriors, frightening our farmers and disturbing our harvest seasen. In the
end, they killed our brave scout Thor in an ambush in No Man's Land, thus
forcing us to declare war on them.

This war goes on for some years now and the politicians and generals of Lux
Invicta have proven more wicked and selfish then we ever would have thought:
They rather prefered to burn down their cities, killing their own people
then allow us to liberate them and show the citizens the advantages of our
civilisation.

This is mostly the reasen why none of our scribes found the time to answer
your messages. Nevertheless, we still honour the friendship that Vox has
shown to us some ages before and we often think of you and your continent
which must be a continent of peace, without any malicious generals who burn
their own cities.

But let's stop this discussion of bloodshed and war and focus on more
important issues. As I said I am designated to be your new ambassador. I
will try my best to explain my people how your country functions and how
special your culture is and what they may be able to learn from the empire
of Vox Controli. As a matter of course, you can also always ask me to tell
you more from Neu Demogyptica and I will try to answer all your questions.

We're also very interested in how your relationship with Gathering Storm has
developed. We know very little of this nation. But as you told us you had
difficulties with them, my people look at them with suspicion. We hope that
everything is reassessed now on your continent and that you can prosper and
develop your society.

Finally, I wanted to talk with you about our tech-trade. Our scientists
finally discovered the secrets of Mysticism. They are behaving a little
bit... mysterious ... since then. Well... they had help from the scientists
from GoW... but as we honour the friendship between our two nations, we
still want to share with you the secrets of the numbers, called "Math".
Unless the scientists from GoW haven't already explained it to you. Please
note that we have our own system of counting, called the "Arabic numeral".
You might find it very useful, perhaps more useful than the numbers you used
before in your daily life. And definitly more convenient than the
complicated number system from GoW. If you already discovered the secret of
"Math" we still want to offer you our Arabic numerals as a gift: one = 1,
two = 2, three = 3, ... [etc.etc.]

My warmest regards to you, BetaHound, and to the glorious nation of Vox
Controli. I pray to the Mysterious Gods that our friendship will last
through the ages.

With sincerity
Louis, Ambassador of Neu Demogyptica

[Beta]

This is the note received from zeit of GS. nathan had asked for this two turns ago as well. I'm trying to figure out why it is so important to them. I suspect it may have something to do with lowering tech research costs on techs that other teams have, but this will be irrelevant shortly. ?????? Any ideas? Sentiment?

"Contact with Lux (before its too late)
Greetings, BetaHound of Vox Controli Foreign Ministry

How are things faring, neighbor?

What a great time to cherish peace, when one of our fellow teams is about to leave us in a rather abrupt and violent way.

But still, we wish to have contact with them before they're gone. I kindly ask from you one more time, could you send LI's contact to us in this turn?

Thanks in advance
Zeit, Gathering Storm Head of Diplomacy scholia."

[Beta]

nbarclay's incoming note today and my response. I had earlier in the day grilled Shiber in a chat with him and BFM, trying to figure out why the contact was so important. I may have ruffled a few feathers, but I got a reasonable comfort level that GS and Lux were not up to anything. Shiber even indicated that he had floated the idea of asking Lux for their treasury, but that the idea had not gone over that well with the Gs team. The Sir Ralph showed up, with Eli and I there- so I put the Lux plan on the table. SR went back to discuss the idea with GS. This note showed up, and I responded. I had earlier written Sir Ralph about keeping the situation quiet. I will post that next.

Re: The Lux Contact Situation
Hi nathan. Busy day. Thank-you for the explanation. I should've asked earlier as well. I apologize if I put Shiber on the spot today.

I thought we had already provided contact with Neu D. We will with the upcoming turn.

And - as discussed with Sir Ralph today - we are going to have new neighbours. We have reached agreement with Lux, and our southern border city will be renamed Portia and turned over to them.

They understand our, GS and Vox, treaty agreements, and will abide by them. This is a temporary move, and they are not allowed to settle another city on this continent. They pose no threat to either GS ot Vox.

We can provide more details on this arangement as required, but time is of the essensce, and I must return to some other duties.

Regards - BetaHound


quote:

nbarclay wrote on 23-02-2003 18:38:
Greetings BetaHound and People of Vox Controli,

I apologize for the concern my not doing a better job explaining our reasons for wanting to contact Lux seems to have caused. We've been tossing around a few wild ideas (though none as wild as your thoughts of giving/loaning them Dissidentville), but they've really been just that - wild ideas that the team ultimately did not view as practical. So really, our interest comes down to two things. (1) We don't want Lux to disappear without our ever getting a chance to see them on our F8 graphs and so forth. And (2) we want a chance to talk to them just in case some kind of mutually beneficial arrangement might be possible. We haven't had anything specific in mind - at least nothing that seemed particularly workable - but we would be remiss in our duties as leaders of our nation if we didn't explore whether there might be any possibilities. By the way, I might note that Shiber was the source of at least one or two of our "wild ideas", and when you chatted earlier, I think that may have led him to sound like our plans for what to do with contact were clearer and more concrete than they really are.

In regard to Horseback Riding, our inclination for the moment is to hold off getting it from you until sufficient time has passed that it's unlikely to cause serious friction between you and GoW. We'll let you know when we think the time is right.

Also, with Code of Laws nearing completion, we would like to get contact with Neu Demogyptica so we can shop it around to them. You stand to gain as well, of ocurse, if we can arrange a trade for something they are currently researching. If you could provide us with contact (or sell contact with us to ND in the next turn or so), we would greatly appreciate it.

Sincerely,

Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm

[Beta]

sent earlier in the day to Sir Ralph - as discussed in the other thread. I will confirm this low key approach with nathan tomorrow as well.

Lux
Hello Sir Ralph. Regarding our earlier discussions, and your current deliberations, there is a desire by the Voxians that IF this is done as discussed, that we keep it quiet, and between GS, Vox, and Lux. For now. Some may wonder what is up when they still see Lux's name on the board, but we figure we should let them wonder. And BTW - if this does go through, we are insisting the new city be re-named Portia, from the Merchant of Venice and the "Quality of mercy..." speech.

Regards .... Beta.

[Beta]

To Nathan Barclay of GS as mentioned above.

Hi Nathan. I sent a similar request to Sir Ralph yesterday, so if this is repeating myself - sorry.

What we are asking is that we keep Lux's presence on our continent quiet. We have renamed the city so there will be no connection to our civ or continent when it shows up on the F11 screen - is it? Given some of the recent tensions on the other continent, I do not want our humanitarian actions to be seen in a darker light and to affect our present good relations with the remaining 3 civs on that continent. Also - it will be interesting to see the speculation regarding where Lux ended up and how they got there.

As you no doubt are aware of, the eventual plan is for Lux to take up residence on Legoland's continent, once communications are established with them.

Again - in the meantime, if you have any questions or concerns regarding this recent, and I admit, somewhat rushed arrangement, please let me know.

On another topic - we forwarded communications to Neu Demogyptica to you last turn as 'accepted', so you should have that by now.

That's it from our end.

Regards from your northern friends .... Beta.

[Jon Miller]

ah, we dont' have the same deal with lux
we don't give them our tech
they will want mapmaking though
see. they are desperate for cash. they could easily use their position to flip techs.
(and we want them to have it)
oh, you know that we both have contacs with the rest of the continent
we would deal with the tech first
yes, we want them to have MM, but not anything outside that path.
we won't give them anything else
great.
we might trade, but they won't have anything to trade for a while
(and yuo would get benifits of trade also)
oops.
ah, bad?
yes, not good.
so you want adon to the trade bill?
I don't think that there is anything special with lux
no. we do not want vox to give any tech to lux for any reason.
hmm, is that deal breaker for you guys, or can we have discussion on that?
we can make sure they get MM soon enough to get off our lands.
please discuss.
I mean, I guess it does not matter which of us trades with them (if they have something to trade)
but it is weird that that is such a big deal to you
I will present this request to Vox

[Beta]

Hi Jon - I assume that was chat room conversation.

Trip has responded to my note. They have ben chatting with GS. At first glance, I'm not sure I like where this is headed.

Reply Part 1
As it appears that you were not available at the time, I shall respond via PM instead then.

quote:
Are you OK with us sharing the recent Lux-Vox agreement with GS if it is necessary to calm their nerves. Haven't heard anything, but I want to be ready to react quickly if need be. Especially if their warrior takes a more aggressive stance. ..... Beta

Trip's response:

Once you talk with them about recent discussions between Lux and GS, you can be assured that we have no devious agreement with them.

We've had many discussions with GS this past day. They've been relatively accepting of the situation and Lux's presence on the continent, though they were a bit forceful, though they desire nothing tangible from us or Vox, luckily. They are willing to let Lux stay under a few conditions, which they will probably lay out for you when you talk with them. They have no desire to attack Lux, though they want assurance of the security of their interests.

A couple things for Vox to be aware of is that GS wants to keep units inside of Lux borders (but at a distance of no closer than 2 tiles from our city). In addition, Lux will be keeping all of its units outside of our city so they can be sure we are not building up units for an attack or other malicious intention. Vox is permitted to keep any number of workers and 1 defensive unit inside Lux borders to defend those workers, but is not to use Lux territory for any kind of military purposes (acceptable demand from GS, as I see it).

Lux is also working on a deal to get Writing and Map Making from GS, which is part of what they want so that conflict of some sort does not erupt over the existance of Lux on this continent. This deal will likely require the withdrawing of 130 gold from the sum that Lux gave to Vox for safekeeping, in accordance with the terms of the agreements made with both Vox and GS. While we regret having to request most of our cash back, we are required to do so to acquire Map Making, which was one of the terms to our treaty. The sooner we get this tech, the sooner we can be gone from this continent, which in turn means the sooner Vox can get its city back, and the sooner that Lux can start becoming strong again to help Vox with what we've agreed to. We also remain firm on our guarantee to provide our techs to you, and have no intentions of changing the treaty in any way.

GS has no aggressive intentions towards Lux or Vox from what I can tell. They are, understandably, trying to protect their interests, and want to make sure that Lux doesn't cause too much trouble, which is the same as Vox wants. GS and Vox will have other matters to attend to, but Lux will remain outside of such discussions. I think what GS wants is quite fair, especially considering the fact that they have no sore feelings or harsh demands regarding this situation.
__________________

[Beta]

Reply Part 2
quote:
Also - we have been thinking about the tech arrangement that has been agreed to, and unless you can think of a way around it, we suspect only the first civ into the new era will get the techs. That civ cannot pass the newly acquired techs back to a civ still in the previous era. And when the second civ hits that era, it will likely get the same techs. As we are probably the ones going to be the first civ through - it will not be possible for you to honor that part of the deal. Any thoughts? Have we got it wrong? ....Beta

Trip's Response:

After a lot of thinking, you may be right.

It may be possible to cheat the game in a way to trade techs one after another to get Lux into the Middle Ages, then to give us Monotheism in order so that we may get another tech, though the game will probably recognize the transition, and require the deals to take place on different turns. This is, however, unproven and very sketchy. Your concern is valid, and we may need to consider alternatives. Some verification on who gets what techs and when will probably be necassary in order to make some sort of exact agreement though. BFM led me to believe that scientific civs always get the same free techs, but I do not know this, so perhaps someone from Vox knows for certain.

Lux hopes to hear back from our neighbors to the north again soon. Let us know soon what becomes of the talks between Vox and GS.

Trip,
King of Lux Invicta

[Beta]

Received from Panzer32 of GoW today:

Little bits of paper called Maps
Greetings, BetaHound of Vox Controli!

Glory of War scientists have been working tirelessly to discover a new technology. We call this "map making". It allows different civilizations to share maps with each other, thus sharing their knowledge of geography.

The Glory of War is working on finding a suitable deal with Vox Controli in which Glory of War will trade map making to Vox for something in return. I was hoping that you would supply us with the information about what you would be willing to trade for map making. By the way, the Glory of War will aquire map making in 5 turns.

Thank You,

Panzer32
Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War

[Beta]

Sent to nathan barclay of GS this evening. I also sent him other PM's proposing the multi-point arrangement discussed in the other thread, and a proposed ageement for Lux to 'sign'.

Hi nathan. Sorry for the deluge of PM's. But we should discuss something else. We got a letter from GoW announcing they would have map making in 5 turns and asking if we wanted to start working on a trade for it.

Which on the one hand is good news. It would suggest that the arrangements regarding our tech trading relationship are not public knowledge. This can only work to our advantage. This may have been helped by us not yet having passed on Horseback Riding. GoW would be able to see this - so they must figure that we have not been able to reach an agreement with you yet.

And that brings us to how we best keep up this image for the rest of the world. It would seem to be in our best interest to do so. It means that civs are not as reluctant to deal with one or the other of us - as they figure they can get a deal with the other. It may actually lower the cost at which we obtain techs. As long as we are not constantly dealing with the same civ, either from our side, or from the continent, they will probably not figure out the arrangement. And my suspicion is that there is no such unified trading relationship on the continent - it would appear to be an open market so to speak. Which means we benefit from trading with them.

So - what do you propose we say in response to GoW that maintains the image we are looking for. I suspect we can stall by saying our research rate is very slow - partially true (although it is slated for considerable improvement in the near future). And therefore we cannot propose any trades at this time. We discussed Vox sitting on Philosophy for a period of time to force the others to research it. This makes good sense. But we should keep our eyes open if someone else hits the market with it. We should then try and get something for it.

Anyways - any thoughts on our collective marketing and communications strategy? Also, any thoughts on Vox's next research path. Currency?

Also, the new patch for PTW is out (1.21). One of the changes is to make the random tech received by a scientific civ entering a new era, well, random. Before it was fixed. We would get Monotheism. And so would Lux. Which cuts into the value of the agreement we made with them as we will likely beat them to the new era. The new fix may help considerably - if it is implemented for this game.

Regards - Beta.

[Beta]

This came with the 1450bc save from Togas of RolePlay. I am checking with nathan of Gs to see how we want to play this - and whether we can use Cod of Laws to snag Literature as well.

Guys,

Not sure why Nuclear Winter hasn't PM'd this to you, but anyhow, we have
Literature now and we would like to trade it to you. Can you offer us anything
for it? Tech? Gold? Etc? Please let me know. We would like to offer it to you
next turn if possible.

[Beta]

Received from Trip via PM today. I gave him a quick heads up when the save was sent the previous turn that we had a deal for writing and map making for him. Then wehen they took so long to play the turn, I sent him a reminder that they had the save. Now he sends this. My patience as Mother Theresa is wearing thin.

Re: ptwdg save
Yes, I know, I was still waiting to talk with you.

Since you seem to be too slippery to track down, I'll have to talk with you in here.

In response to your previous offer for Writing and Map Making. While I'm sure Vox likes the idea, Lux does not approve. Instead of using our gold to trade for Writing and Map Making, we have to give you construction and our entire economy for them instead? Lux could not accept such a deal and continue to function.

Lux has found a deal which works out better for us getting Map Making. It will only cost us 40 gold, so that's all you'll have to return to us for that. It does not involve GS, do don't worry. A better idea for Vox may be to give Lux Invicta Writing, since they will end up keeping the large sum of money we stocked with Vox anyways. It will either be that, or one of our neighbors will profit from our acquisition of Writing anyways. Lux feels this is the best and cheapest way for both teams to get this deal done. Remember, the money you're holding for us is still ours to use as we please until we get Map Making. Lux feels this is the best way to keep you with most of that, without hurting Lux to the extent that Vox's previous offer did.

Let me know what you think. I'd like to send the save sometime.