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  • #1

    Foreign Affairs - Volume 2

    Thought I would start a new thread - the other is getting fairly long. And since we have a new message in from ... not GS, but Lux, thought this was an appropriate time.

    Looks like they are keen. I'm a bit hesitant to stop our iron research - (that is what they are implying when they want to oknow how close we are - whoever is closest completes and shares it - the other abandons it and moves onto soemthing else.). In a perfect world - hey great. But what if they are chatting with GS, and GS has shared the situation on Estonia with them. Wouldn't we be the fools to stop researching. Then again - if they are legit about the trades ... it has potential.

    Here's the message. I would like to get back to them soon.

    Important Message from Lux Invicta
    Greetings, BetaHound! I hope you got my message about our interest in establishing a possible tech agreement for the future. I have just spoke with Trip, and he seems to love the idea of helping each other in the tech race against other civilization. After all, what better than to have the two scientific civ in this game to stick together? The future looks bright to me, Lux and Vox, as their scientists cooperate to advance this world.

    Anyway, I don't know if your senate held any meetings about such topic, but Trip and I went through great details about what would benefit the land of Lux and Vox the most. Currently our knowledge of your understanding of the world is a bit sketchy to us. As far as we know, you guys can do basic crafting skills that we Lux Invicta have learned long ago, Mansonry and Bronze Working. We also understand your alchemists are working hard to create a better alloy than bronze, which we already have mentioned are doing as well. And finally, you guys have the knowledge of burying the dead, which we also have.

    Which leads to this. Trip and I feel, according to our current knowledge of Voxian's understanding of the world, that as soon as their wiseman are finished with the production of this better alloy which you call iron, the best choice for next research topic would be Mysticism I am sure your wiseman considered this possibility. It is the next step up in the tree with ceremonial burial . To tell you the truth, our wiseman wants to learn this secret ourself, but the funding is limited that Mysticism doesn't come up as a priority for our nation. We need to learn secrets with more pressing needs, which we will share with you, if you only cooperate with us in researching this tech for us.

    Last but not least, We would like to know just how much turn it will take for you to finish Iron working. Perhaps we can see who can finish faster and help out the other? It's just a thought looming on my mind, but I'd appreciate it if you reveal us this information, so that we can better decid and plan the tech trades, should you agree to take part in this wonderful co-operative research agreement.

    Thanks!~
    Calc
    Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I see where they are coming from and IMO, I think we should be honest with them to let them know how many turns we have left for Iron Working - what harm can it really do and it will show our openess to the tech-trading sceme. By telling them how many turns we have left does not mean that we have to change our research priority...and to be quite honest I'm actually curious how many turn they have left for it. What do you all think?
    ____________________________
    "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
    "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
    ____________________________

    Comment

    • #3
      PM from Sir Ralph :
      Please accept trade deal


      To Eli and Dissident, whoever plays the next Voxian turn. Without any role play stuff, as I'm tired and need sleep.

      You have yet to hit "Accept" and then "Send" in the diplomatic screen popping, concerning the tech deal. Without this, the deal is not working. We accepted it, under the condition, that the Alphabet vs Iron Working deal in a couple of turns will be accepted too.

      About all other issues, our diplomats will contact you soon.
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

      Comment

      • #4
        yeah got that. And you know about it. We will hit accept when the next turn comes.

        Comment

        • #5
          about the pottery thing. Someone mentioned they didn't think GS had it when we made first contact. But we had no way of knowing which techs they had. I still think they got that from a hut. As pottery and ceremonial burial are popular things to get from huts. I am suprised they got the wheel so fast. Again I never figured out how many beakers and turns that worked out to.


          But still there is good reason to be wary of abandoning our research on iron working. We have been researching this forever. And so have they I'm sure. We may just have to cut our losses on this one and both continue to research it. But after Iron working we should not research the same techs anymore.

          Comment

          • #6
            And how are they able to have the Alphabet in a couple of turns as well??? I thought that it was their next research path - and that it would take them 20+ turns to research. He says COUPLE of turns.

            What gives? They started with masonry and c.burial. They now have pottery (hut?), the wheel, and Alphabet. And we are still researching our first, albeit more expensive tech. I don't care how good they are - they must have either popped a number of huts - or they have a trading partner at their end.
            Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

            Comment

            • #7
              I think the term "a couple of turns" is just a figure of speech - it will most likely take them 15-20 turns to get alphabet, but in the grade sceme of things, it's a couple of turns.
              ____________________________
              "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
              "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
              ____________________________

              Comment

              • #8
                Witt - I hope so. I am getting inreasingly uneasy about doing any trade. I believe it was Eli who voted against it.

                I have gone back and forth in my mind on this one. But I would sure like to force them to research bronze working. That would take them a pile of turns, and then they would have to research iron working, get a source, connect it, and produce swordsmen.

                NOPE - the trade works - I just mapped it out on a piece of paper - sort of like a Gant chart used in project mgt.

                Vox - we have iron working in 12 turns.

                GS - Option 1 - no trade

                They research bronze working - say 20 turns (just estimating here - they have a couple turns in so far, and seem to have a faster research rate than us - ie more gold from improved tiles.). Then they produce spearmen. They then start researching iron working - say 25-30 turns.

                This means:

                1. they won't be able to produce spearmen for 20 turns.
                2. they will have 45 turns to go before iron working.
                3. but we will likely face hassles from warriors and chariots in the meantime. This may inhibit our ability to get iron.

                GS - Option 2 - trade.

                They move to Alphabet - say 25 turns to reasearch. Then we say no to the second trade. Which forces them to research iron working. Say another 25-30 turns.

                This means:

                1. they will be able to produce spearmen now. It gives them a 20 turn headstart relative to above in producing spearmen. This is significant.
                2. they will actually have longer to go to get to iron working!!!! (this is a key point)
                3. we buy some time while they are reseaching Alphabet, which should allow us to get the road south built (which we will need to move an Immortal force quickly), one or more cities built south of the chokepoint, iron identified and hooked up (hopefully), without the hassles mentioned above.
                4. we get the wheel which we can hopefull deal to Lux for something else.

                This is a close one. The only downside to the trade is that it allows them to start producing spearmen now - but look at it this way. I would rather have them produce spearmen as opposed to chariots. And an immortal can kill a spearman almost as easily as a warrior.

                And as I said above if we pull back on the deal now, we are going to be facing chariot rushes for the next umpteen turns. That would be ugly.

                Any thoughts?

                (I acknowledge that my number of turns for research may be off - I was just using estimates for illustrative purposes.)

                (and the logic above may fall down if they already have Alphabet - which they may, and if we don't trade in 12 turns when we have iron working - they can commence that research right away. They may be bluffing us here about them switching to Aplahabet. Sir Ralph did say a couple of turns. Maybe he let something slip.)

                Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

                Comment

                • #9
                  I hear what you are saying. We will finish this deal and see where we stand after we get Iron Working. The availability of iron will dictate much of our strategy.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Their chariots can't hurt us. I'll explain why in another thread (should have it's own discussion).

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I dont know where to put it, so it'll be this thread :

                      Jon Miller was banned for a few days.
                      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        For what? Did he spam or have a DL?

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          I think that, with the threat of Chariots gone, we want to trigger at least a small war with GS. We can sacrifice one of our warriors, and they can't get ANYTHING!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Well - all of us but Witt are on-line - including jon. We may want to get his view before he is off-line for awile.

                            I got a similar message, Eli.
                            Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Get to the mIRC channel everyone.
                              "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

                              Comment

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