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  • Plans for Future Spain

    I am concerned that our Kingdom is without a long term plan. I trust that the Dukes will be fine stewards of their cities, however, the needs of the nation may not be met unless we gather periodically and discuss what must be done.

    Let's use this thread to discuss what our cities should be building in the years to come, and to develop our priorities and build queues. I have written down what I forese for our future but I wish to hear from my Lords about what their plans are and how our plans should be adjusted to serve the betterment of Spain.


    Madrid -- Our most productive city and one of our two barracks cities. This city will produce spearmen for our expansion sites, occasional horsemen and swordsmen, workers on the turn before it grows, and when a marketplace can be fit it, one should be built. Our first Library and Cathedral should be built in Madrid once our military needs are met.

    Zaragoza -- Our 2nd barracks city, and a very productive city, shall be a primary military production site, but it should build a marketplace when our military needs are met and settler when it grows too large to be policed ... which needs to be planned well in advance.

    Pamplona -- An IDEAL Settler creating factory, it will likely remain on Settler duty for quite some time. This needs to be discussed -- when can we take Pamplona off Settler duty? When Settler duty is complete it will need to quickly build a temple (or Cathedral), marketplace, and library ... possibly with additional settlers and workers due to it's incredible growth rate.

    Santiago -- An ideal commercial site, once the worker is complete, it needs to modify WF and build a marketplace or courthouse (as corruption will increase as we build more cities), then library. Santiago might contribute a few more workers, but it will not otherwise contribute to the military or settlement of our nation.

    Vigo -- With work, this may become a commercial and production site, however a courthouse will be needed. What other plans do we have for this city?

    Leon -- A City with great growth potential that will initially give us needed workers and will also give us groups of Settlers. This city may lesson the burden on Pamplona and allow it to build less settlers, or it may add to the strength of Pamplona to allow us to very rapidly settle the rest of our great nation.

    Barcelona -- Our only Port City for now. It must give us a fleet, and will need a marketplace and temple, and perhaps workers and settlers if the new harbor causes it to grow too quickly.

    Toledo -- This new city must build a temple when the worker is done to further expand our borders. After that, with proper development, it can serve as either a worker/settler factory and/or a minor production facility. Eventually a Marketplace will be required.

    Valencia -- Our next city is too new to plan for now, but it will take advantage of it's coastal position as well as it's spice resources to become a commerce city.

    Sevilla -- The next city we will found after Valencia, this city will partially control the ivory trade, be coastal, and located on a river. It will also become a commercial city and will surely need to courthouse, temple, marketplace, and harbor improvements.

    I now invite all of the Lords and Dukes of Spain to comment and add to this discussion.

    --Togas
    Last edited by Togas; April 8, 2003, 19:04.
    Greatest Moments in ISDG chat:"(12/02/2003) <notyoueither> the moon is blue. hell is cold. quote me, but i agree with ET. "
    Member of the Mercenary Team in the Civ 4 Team Democracy Game.
    Former Consul for the Apolyton C3C Intersite Tournament Team.
    Heir to the lost throne of Spain of the Roleplay Team in the PTW Democracy Multiplayer Team Game.

  • #2
    * Aidun Cian the younger, son of Cardinal Aidun Cian the older steps forward. *

    I am supervising Zaragoza now that my father is concerned with the election of the pope.

    The plan to build a marketplace in Zaragoza came up when your financial advisor showed me the status of the royal treasury, your Majesty.
    I thought that it could use a little bit more growth. I thought that in order to finance future technology trades it would be good to have a larger growth of the treasury.
    Even if we want to do research on our own, a larger growth of the treasury is good, because we can then spend more money on research.

    I see no problem in switching the production from a marketplace to a military production, but then I strongly advise you to build a marketplace in some other city.

    That was all for now your Majesty.

    * Aidun Cian the younger bows and walks bac to his place. *
    "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise can not see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring.
    Term 9 and 10 Domestic Minister of the C3DG I., Term 8 Regional Governor of Old Persia in the C3DG and proud citizen of Apolyton. Royal Ambassador to Legoland in the C3 PTW DG, Foreign Affairs Minister and King of the United Kingdom in the MZO C3CDG and leader of the Monarchist Imperialist team. Moody Sir Aidun (The Impatient) of the Holy Templar Order in the C4BtSDG

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    • #3
      Justino Togas:

      I ask the Dukes and Lords of Spain to come forward and present your ideas for the future of Spain. All ideas will be considered, now is not the time to continue the old ways simply because we have come to accept them.

      Ideas that my father was opposed to I may not be opposed to.

      My primary concern is that Spain is falling behind the world in production, commerce, and most certainly science. We are slowly becoming a backward people, far too obsessed with warfare and defense and our economy and culture are suffering.

      The location of Madrid is not centralized. I will hear plans to perhaps move the center of the Kingdom, or to rapidly build to the North of Madrid, or both.

      Plans need to be laid out for future city sites.

      Spain must consider how involved we will be in foreign conflicts.

      I must also consider who my advisors are to be.

      The men who served my father were great men, and I ask that they remain in the service of my family and in the service of Spain. However, I may choose to bring in new people who are closer to me, therefore I would like to put all current advisors on notice. If you wish to remain in your post you must convince me that you are loyal and that your ideas are in line with my ideas.

      I wish to bring Spain enlightenment and progress, and I wish to see Spain develop while still maintaining it's military strength and security. My father was a military man at heart, I see myself more as a visionary.

      I will post shortly a new Edict involving some of the changes I will make. However, I am VERY interested to hear your ideas for changes. Please discuss them here.

      --Justino Togas
      Greatest Moments in ISDG chat:"(12/02/2003) <notyoueither> the moon is blue. hell is cold. quote me, but i agree with ET. "
      Member of the Mercenary Team in the Civ 4 Team Democracy Game.
      Former Consul for the Apolyton C3C Intersite Tournament Team.
      Heir to the lost throne of Spain of the Roleplay Team in the PTW Democracy Multiplayer Team Game.

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe the young and more open-minded Rey Justino El grandioso would now accept the project to civilize Santiago...
        As it was already explained, Santiago is a mess... jungle, bananas, trouts, all this that makes the illegal life in there so criminous and corrupt.
        I believe that a Court with severe punishments for thieflings and bananadicts would be needed though I need Señor Oliver to bring me some paintings of the city so that I can study them [ooc]Oliver, I need screenshots to work with [ooc]
        Señor Nuclearis Winterius the III,
        Diplomat with the Voxians, and also
        Señor Pablo Winterius, missionary Bishop and Archbishop of the Roleplay team

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        • #5
          Combating corruption
          I've been trying to figure some ways to keep corruption away. This form part of the suggestions I have for the long term plans for our civ, but today I will concentrate just in this issue.

          Currently our corruption it's like this:
          Code:
          Shields	Commerce
          Mad 	0%	0%
          Pam	17%	20%
          Bar	20%	10%
          Zar	33%	30%
          San	50%	45%
          Vig 	33%	33%
          Leo 	0%	25%
          Tol 	0%	25%
          TOTAL	18%	23%
          The corruption levels are suportable near the capital. However, near the frontier we lose almost one of every two pieces produced due to corruption. Señor Winterius is right to ask a courthouse to fight corruption in his city. But in adition to this we must consider a more long term plan to fight corruption.

          What I have in mind to fight corruption in production is luxes. When a city of size 6 or greater has more than half happy citizens, We Love the King Day is celebrated. WLTKD reduces waste (that's corruption in production). The good thing is that we already have 4 luxuries in our land, so we can have WLTKD in our cities from size 6 to 11 just by building marketplaces in them. with an extra traded luxury this would rise to size 14.

          The weak side of this estrategy is that one unhappy citizen spoils WLTKD, so we would need temples, cathedrals and the Sistine Chappel. Why? because the Sistine Chappel doubles cathedrals' effects, and that means 6 unhappy citizens turned content by every cathedral, which is quite cheap to build by a religious civ like us
          Last edited by OliverFA; April 15, 2003, 18:17.
          "Never trust a man who puts your profit before his own profit." - Grand Nagus Zek, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, episode 11
          "A communist is someone who has read Marx and Lenin. An anticommunist is someone who has understood Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan (1911-2004)

          Comment


          • #6
            I would think that Spain has to take one of two Strategies right now.
            [list=1][*]Military Might

            We have many units and are more powerful than our neighbors. We can use these units to expand our Empire. We might ask GoW to Ally with us against ND. I think the odds would be in our favor of taking at least 2 cities form ND and 50/50 at taking 3 with an immediate mobilization to war time units. There is some risk invloved here, but the payoff is greater than the risk.
            [*]Economic Ecstasy

            We need to stop, for now, building Swordsmen. We only build Spearmen for protection of our Settler's when needed. We build Settler's like mad rabbits in heat. We concentrate on putting cities around or close as reasonably possible to our Capitol to limit corruption. We plan and build a FP in the Southern portion of our Empire to counter the corruption that will arise there. There's also very little risk in this plan as long as we leave Swordsmen stacked in key locations where an ND invasion can take place. [/list=1]


            I feel equally about both scenarios, unless GoW should approach us about an Alliance against ND; then I think we should use our Military. Given that our King has stated that he's not so much the 'Warrior' type his father was, the Economic approach may be the best. But a Palace "jump" is needed for us to grow into a "Powerhouse." For those opposed to abandoning Madrid; it would take ~44 turns to build a Palace in Pamplona (depending on woker and WF assignments.)

            A FP (~28 turns) in Pamplona would be a waste, since it would be to close to the Palace in Madrid. Though an alternate plan of doing a Palace "jump" to a Southern city at a later time might work well also. It's just that coordinating a jump that far away is very difficult to pull off. You have to 'artificially' build the population of the city you want the Palace to be in and deflate the population of the cities you don't. It can be done, but it takes precise planning.

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