New Plans for Spain -- Discussion

[roadcage]

That's what I thought, but those are the numbers. The chop with one worker will be done in 11. What I haven't included are:
..the worker near Barcelona. If that worker joins the chop (two turns into the chop), the forest will be done 4 turns earlier. (bad strategy, wastes more worker movement turn than currently)
..pop growth which depending on which tile is added, could speed up the barracks a little or a lot. Infact, after the current spear build, Madrid will be size 5 and can be reconfigured for 10 shields and no food surplus. This eliminates the need to do a second spear pre barracks and produces the Barracks in 2+4 without the chop. Unfortunately, the Pampaloma road will be still unavailable so all Madrid can make are vet spears until such time as the road is complete. Then vet Horses are possible until we have Iron.

The chop has never made any sense to me, as the workers are better applied towards the Pampaloma road. And at 10 shields per turn, it doesn't matter what the future builds in Madrid are (except a worker or warrior), cause the chop will cut 1 turn off of whatever it is whenever it is.

Unfortunately, we are now committed to the chop.

So with one worker chopping and Madrid re-configured for max shields after 2 turns, Madrid will produce 1 spear and 3 vet spears in 11 turns including the chop bonus.

Which really isn't that bad, but I still think the road to Pampaloma is more important.

Manuel de Leon

[E_T]

Roadcage, we need that forrest choped for 2 reasons:

1) to get water to Barcelona, so that it can grow beyond size 3
2) to speed up a Barracks built, for upgrades and Vet builds.

The Idea had come from me. But I had originally wanted the Madrid worker to move to Madrid #14 and start to chop as soon as possible, after building the road at Madrid #5. The timing of it would have reqired the Barcelona Worker to have been delayed 1 turn. The Barcelona worker would have finished the connecting road right after the chop was done and then joined the other one. Madrid would have Irrigated and then Barcelona would have roaded. They would have both been done at the same time

But Oliverfa wanted to get the Lux connected sooner, so I worked it out to were they both do the chop and there is the 4 turns that they will finish together. THey will then road and Maybe irrigate to Barcelona, but that's up to the slave master.

Either of the 2 plans had the forrest being chopped at the same time and the road and Irrigation done in 4 turns afterwards. Granted, the worker has to waste a turn to move to that spot, but that's just how it is sometimes. Granted, it is more efficent to only have that one worker there, but we are a bit pressed for time. Also, we won't be doing too many chops for a while.

E_T

[astrologix]

E_T, I agree

[OliverFA]

I am not much into the idea of choping the forest, but this was decided several turns ago (in fact a lot of turns ago) and the Madrid plans depend on that and also Barcelona access to freshwater.

[Togas]

In 9 turns the Non-Agg pact with ND runs out. I must plan for the worst, and we will continue to build mil units and structures in all of the cities (perhaps even Pamplona) during this time.

I will give instructions in the diplomacy thread for what to do about Neu Dem.

We will have 160g or more by the time our barracks is built. We do not, however, know how many turns it will be until we have access to iron in Madrid. I plan to have the warrior in Barcelona and the Magyars move to Madrid to be upgraded to swordsmen, but we have the funds to upgrade 2 more ... and right now I don't feel comfortable taking GuOps and Bulger off the front lines. Ferocalvos may return. Madrid Expedition is too far away for serious consideration. Madrid may end up making 2-3 more warriors (after barracks) and upgrading them during the period that we wait for the iron to be linked. This must be discussed and planned as we get a realistic picture of when we will have iron acess.

As it looks right now, it appears that 3 warriors could be spaced out in the jungle and very easily watch for a ND surprise attack. We may build a third warrior for this purpose or we may use Ferocalvos for this purpose.

Once the forest is cut, the Arnelos slaves will build the road from Madrid -> Pamplona. The Astrologix slaves will be on their own to irrigate.

--Togas

[pikesfan]

How, again, are we going to get the iron? Will we be building a city, or will we found a colony?

[OliverFA]

Pamplona is going to pop a settler in a few turns. Presumably it will get to Iron City place at the time the road is done

[ThePlagueRat]

Si-si. Having GuObs and Bulger in the jungle is neccesary when the non-agg pact runs out. They will be blooded but on scout. Many leeches out there! 9 friggin turns!? We wouldn't have that road to Madrid ready by then, or could we? We can at least start building some horsemen if we make it. And then link the iron as well. Now they are chopping the forest and that's good for the barracks-project, but this mountaintrail I've been ranting about for a while should have to be constructed by now.

I think 2 workers can do the one mountaintrail in 6 turns, while one other can do the other tiles, im not sure though. It's worth checking out. One settler and one worker can head out towards the iron pretty soon too, I guess. Then we could succeed against ND, but it will take a while... Somebody gotta keep them at bay diplomatically in the meantime.

[roadcage]

The Madrid Pampaloma roadway can be available in turn 70. For details see my recommendation in the 1525 BC (turn 60) orders thread. And this is based on my change from current planning. Otherwise it will be even longer.

And upon detail analysis, the chop has nothing whatsover to do with the barracks, but getting irrigation to Barcelona so it can eventually grow.

Manuel de Leon

[ThePlagueRat]

Are we not chopping a forest outside Madrid? That lumber would speed up barracks production. I don't really care much about Barcelona. It's a city that should have the lowest of all priorities. Army now!

[Thrumble]

Originally posted by oliverfa
the Neu Demons (I like to call them that way, who was the first to do that? )

I believe that was me. It was actually a typo, but I thought it still worked so I left it.

[GodKing]

Sorry - I didn't get the chance this weekend to look over the save. Hopefully in the next couple of nights. I say once a barracks is built, start on warrior production asap. Even if we cannot upgrade them, they will still be upgradable later and usefull later.

[ThePlagueRat]

Hmmm, I don't know if I agree.
If we have the time for it before we get connected with roads, Madrid could also squeeze out a new settler!? We still got much land to colonize... Madrid can grow back to 5, but it can grow bigger now.

[OliverFA]

A new settler? Completely disagree! We need to build more militar units until our advisor stops saying we are weaker than ND!

[ThePlagueRat]

Well, oliver... we both have the same intentions, but see different ways of achiving the goal. I also think Madrid should build military units (and mainly that for a while). and even more when we are connected to horses/iron.

But I think not loads of defensive units as we are capable of now.
The barracks should be even more a priority than anything else, but I think the forest chopping can pay much of this. At least check out if a settler could be completed before the road is built.

It depends how long it will take to build one. A settler is never a waste and would be just fine now for building a town nearby some productive resources so that we can build even more military units. It was just an idea!