ND Border proposal!!!

[OliverFA]

This is the border proposal the ND emailed to Togas.



That's not good, because they want the coast and the silks... We need to work very hard with this.

[pikesfan]

I don’t care so much about the silks because we already have a source. But we desperately need the iron.

[Togas]

Given that ND is pressed for space in the north, they need room to settle. Their proposal, however, give them the jungle and territory where they could only place two cities, and cedes the rest of the settleable territory to Lux (???)

This is not acceptable.

However, we must tell this to them nicely.

Proposal: We get them to agree that their primary need is further growth. We "give" them the northern valley and surrounding areas and explain to them the defensive benefits it would give them against Lux.

If they still say no, we explain that we have only 1 source of iron, it's in the west valley, and we cannot give it up. We also feel it would be unreasonable to give them 1 city on the silk just because they want those luxuries, and have it surrounded by our cities. What is far more reasonable is to have a safe buffer between us, the jungle, that will ensure that we remain at peace and that no one is tempted to later attack the other.

--Togas

[E_T]

And the Gems

I'm not for this proposal, but how can we tell them that that's ours with out any bad feeling.

E_T

[ruby_maser]

Is ND hiding something from us?

The area just under the "trade road" words... How can they have revealed that land without revealing at the very least the tile NW of the word "trade" or the ones south of "to confirm"?

That is too tight of a space. IIRC, the line of sight in the jungle is 1 tile in all directions -- that would not create the shape we are seeing. Could they have seen all that from the mountain directly north or are they deliberately concealing something?

[jdjdjd]

Its possible they shaded it - it looks like good job. But what could they be hiding? A settler party?

This is their first offer - we should continue to hash an agreement and in the meantime settle in the west.

[E_T]

Plus, I can NOT see the Horse that should be right under that Trade road, just south of ND's Capitol. I even looked at a blowup of that area on their map. They can see our Horse.... so we should be able to see theirs.

They just might have something that will get their before we do, if just to keep us from settling there.

E_T

[ruby_maser]

A plan to deal with possible ND settler

Well, I ran a scenario and found that it is possible for the fog to look the way it does according to my earlier post.

A unit positioned atop the mountain NW of the one which contains the gold resource would have created the pattern we are seeing.

It means they probably have not scouted that area yet after all.

However, I took a look at the horse resource too, and could not see it in the blow up just as ET couldn't. They could be concealing a unit that is currently on that tile. The fact that they positioned the text right over the top of it could have been done to try to cover their tracks. If this were true, they are only six turns away from their specified location in their proposal, seven away from actually founding the city.

Now, who precedes who in turns for the save? If they we precede them, we can have the jump on them in that they will enter our line of sight when it is still our turn to move.

We could conceivably attempt to cut them off/delay them with the spearman from Saragossa, reinforce Sargossa with the spear that will be escorting the settlers from Pamplona, and have the spearman and settler rendevous at the new city site.

Needless to say, it would be close. Any thoughts?

[ruby_maser]

Expanded plan to deal with possible ND settler

Originally posted by ruby_maser
We could conceivably attempt to cut them off/delay them with the spearman from Saragossa, reinforce Sargossa with the spear that will be escorting the settlers from Pamplona, and have the spearman and settler rendevous at the new city site.

Another possibility is that we could do this is conjunction with help from.... GoW

Bare with me. We could offer to sell GoW Writing for less than the alloted 60 gold in order to enlist their services in forming a wall with the spear from Saragossa that a potential ND settler could not get around.

GoW could not be told the purpose of their mission, only that we would be willing to knock off such-and-such gold from the deal if they would be willing to take their western-most warrior and beeline for "X" tile.

We then proceed to move the spear out of Saragossa to be directly beside them at the appropriate point in time. And the settler from Pamplona (and maybe the warrior south of GoW's warrior) follow up behind. Also, the spear out of Pamplona instead go to Saragossa to garrison the city. It would only be undefended briefly.




ND's non-aggression pact offer would make perfect sense if they were sending an unescorted settler or way. Maybe I'm planning for something that won't happen, but if we don't take precautions, they have a good shot at getting our silks.

[Hot Mustard]

New proposal from Togas:

[Thrumble]

Re: Expanded plan to deal with possible ND settler

Originally posted by ruby_maser


Another possibility is that we could do this is conjunction with help from.... GoW

Bare with me. We could offer to sell GoW Writing for less than the alloted 60 gold in order to enlist their services in forming a wall with the spear from Saragossa that a potential ND settler could not get around.

GoW could not be told the purpose of their mission, only that we would be willing to knock off such-and-such gold from the deal if they would be willing to take their western-most warrior and beeline for "X" tile.

We then proceed to move the spear out of Saragossa to be directly beside them at the appropriate point in time. And the settler from Pamplona (and maybe the warrior south of GoW's warrior) follow up behind. Also, the spear out of Pamplona instead go to Saragossa to garrison the city. It would only be undefended briefly.

This might also provide an opportunity to diffuse potential warmongering tendencies towards us from GoW as an employer.

The yellow dots in the map are our suggested city sites to ND?

[DAVOUT]

This map could be just a bargaining tool; they ask something big just to obtain the northeastern area.
The mention of Lux (even with a question mark) is not sincere, to say the least.
And the trade road is unbelievable : it is exactly the invasion road that we must build ASAP.

Also, they dont need the gems in the south since they have one next door. But we absolutely need the iron, and the two of them, because we need a back up in case the first connected is exhausted (which happens sometimes).

[OliverFA]

I don't recommend telling them that we need the iron source.

That would be giving them a very valuable information!!! What do you think they would do if they know that we don't have iron? Do you think they would respect the 20 turn NaP? Of course not!

[LzPrst]

They must be mad! To expect us to give away the silk!??! Tell them to get their heads out of the skies and look at the facts! Silk city is ours. The great jungle is the natural border and an attempt to cross it should be answered with the fiercest resistance possible, war!

The land IS ours, our gods have given it to us and we the people of Spain will NEVER accept any outlanders in the land that so rightfully belongs to us. Give them the valley of Sierra Shinies, we'll cancel city site #14 as well, that would be extremely gracious of us. If they think we'll believe that we have half the continent they are mad, the lands of the earth are near endless to the north if three civilizations can exist there, of course it would be crowded, another civ in our land would make it extremely crowded in our opinion.
It is clear that they are exagerrating to the extreme in order for us to give up as much land as possible. We should give them another proposal that they would deem unreasonable and finally end with a compromise putting them NORTH of the jungle

Anything else will infuriate the people of Spain to degree making them unaccountable for the consequences.

[OliverFA]

Re: Expanded plan to deal with possible ND settler

Originally posted by ruby_maser
ND's non-aggression pact offer would make perfect sense if they were sending an unescorted settler or way. Maybe I'm planning for something that won't happen, but if we don't take precautions, they have a good shot at getting our silks.

The NaP is suposed to be in effect right now, so we can use it to ourselves doing exactly what señor ruby_maser sugests. If they kill our undefended settle that would mean war!