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[E_T]

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E_T

[E_T]

Private Channel Log with GF

Session Start: Mon Jan 27 19:42:00 2003
Session Ident: GhengisDevil
[19:42] * Logging GhengisDevil to 'logs\GhengisDevil.GRNet.log'
[19:42] [GhengisDevil> Roleplay isn't in the picture anywhere. That means the three northern civs are researching the whole thing without Roleplay.
[19:42] [GhengisDevil> That's inefficient and I don't like it.
[19:42] [GhengisDevil> If you aren't a needed element you are a target for war.
[19:42] [E_T> Nor do I, and I'm particularly trustful for Lux, myself
[19:43] [GhengisDevil> Neither Lux, GoW, or Nd can go to war with one another for 30-40 turns due to our tech agreements because we have to honor those trades.
[19:44] [GhengisDevil> ANY OF US CAN GO TO WAR WITH ROLEPLAY BECAUSE ROLEPLAY ISN"T IN OUR TECH RESEARCH ASSIGNMENTS>
[19:44] [E_T> that's good to hear, and personally, I think that Togas is overreacting.
[19:44] [E_T> and that's bad
[19:44] [GhengisDevil> That's what I'm irritated with.
[19:44] [GhengisDevil> Yes, it is.
[19:45] [E_T> but all we are asking is that you move back up north and we can get back to our trades like we had originally planned
[19:46] [GhengisDevil> I have no idea if your plan is to fight everyone off , and if it is, then so be it. But I don't think it will be successful.
[19:46] [E_T> Personally, I don't give a crap where you move your warriors, but most of the team feels that your posing a threat with them here, now...
[19:47] [E_T> But I"M not the TEAM, I'm just 1 voice
[19:49] [GhengisDevil> I'm being frank with you because your smart enough to understand the variable involved.
[19:49] [E_T> I know and I really appreciate that, thanks
[19:49] [GhengisDevil> All three of the northern civs know about the two Iron, Ivory, Silk, Gems, and Spice down there.
[19:50] [E_T> But we have a large group of people who feel that your warriors are a threat
[19:50] [GhengisDevil> Several units from all three civs have scouted various parts and we have compared info.
[19:51] [E_T> and then you also know that our land isn't that goos for growth, either
[19:52] [E_T> and they feel that your scouting is still a threat
[19:52] [GhengisDevil> Their freaking conscripts, you have spearmen. We don't know where those resources are located as the info was relayed to us. We are trying to map them so we can know who gains control of them.
[19:53] [GhengisDevil> If a war breaks out we need to know who side is in our interest to support.
[19:54] [E_T> so way cant you wait until mapmaking to get that info, unless you plan to invade eairlier than that? THai's is whats on our minds
[19:54] [GhengisDevil> We have islands off our coast, we are desperate for mapmaking so we can go settle them.
[19:55] [E_T> then we need to be better freinds, so that we can get all of that, for both of us
[19:55] [GhengisDevil> It has nothing to do with your southern area, we just want to be able to see if someone is getting so large that will pose a threat
[19:56] [E_T> but the people who are making the decisions and the others who are on the fence arew really feeling threated by your 2 scouts/Warriors
[19:56] [GhengisDevil> Right now, Lux and ND's empires stretch into Black Space, we don't like Black Space.
[19:56] [E_T> and we have NOT made any effort to do the same to You/Lux or ND either
[19:57] [GhengisDevil> Thats silly, we are scouting with the lowest stat units available.
[19:57] [E_T> I don't like Black spce, but I can also wait for mapmaking to fill those blanks
[19:58] [E_T> Yes, but the knowledge that you gain is mre valuable, in our opionion, than the actual units
[19:58] [E_T> and we feel that in of it's self id the real issue
[19:59] [E_T> you gain specific knowledge of us, whereas we only know approxamately you are located
[20:00] [GhengisDevil> BS I've told Togas all about our areas, he knows we have 4 wine, 2 game, and a fish resource in our capital's city radius.
[20:01] [E_T> so, AKAIK, he hasn't releated that ti us, or it was so long ago, we have forgotten
[20:02] [E_T> AND, that is still not Specifics either. We don't KNOW were they are exactly on our map
[20:02] [E_T> We don't know WHAT exactly is between us and those things
[20:03] [E_T> ANd we don't really want to know that right now, because we can wait for mapmaking to get all of that Info, at same time, as part of a dea
[20:03] [E_T> *deal
[20:03] [GhengisDevil> We gave you our minimap. If their in our capital's city radius there on the minimap. I can't get any more specific until we can trade maps.
[20:05] [E_T> I look at the mini map, and I can guesstimate where on the big map that is in relationship to us. Hell, I was off 2 tiles with Nue Theben and some of the others thought it was further away...
[20:05] [GhengisDevil> We are on the north coast and a penisula.
[20:05] [E_T> an d I have Graphics programs to look at that stuff.
[20:06] [GhengisDevil> There is 1-2 squares seperating our culture from Lux's
[20:07] [E_T> As you can see, we have a LOT of mountainous terrain and about the same with hills. Add to that, Desert & Plains and not much water (some that can't be irrigated until Electricity and you can see way we are being protective of our space...
[20:08] [E_T> the Vally of the Cows, where Pamplona is, is our Best land to use
[20:09] [GhengisDevil> THere is no way we could get a settler through Lus and ND and settle anythign down there before your three teams have already claimed it.
[20:11] [E_T> We know that, so the only reason that we see that you are looking down there, inour minds, is for stratigic info only
[20:11] [GhengisDevil> That's pretty much why we're there, yes
[20:12] [E_T> and that has us very worried, and the more moderate people don't like it, whereas teh anti-GoW's are having a heyday...
[20:12] [GhengisDevil> If two warriors are a threat then you have other things to be worrying about.
[20:13] [E_T> As you can figure, I'm more inclined to work with you, but I'm also looking at what everybody else has been saying.
[20:14] [E_T> I've been personally been making warnings about Lux and they have been falling on deaf ears
[20:14] [E_T> but the thing is that Togas has an "understanding" and so is blind to them, IMHO
[20:14] [GhengisDevil> Lus is gearing up to fight someone. I'm not sure if the target they told me is the real one though, so we are builidng up our defense to be on the safe side.
[20:15] [E_T> a parrallel is Chamberland's "understanding" with Hitler, before he had invaded Poland....
[20:15] [GhengisDevil> Lux has an agreement with us that when we traded them Horseback RIding the techs wouldn't be traded to third parties.
[20:16] [E_T> THat's what we heard
[20:16] [GhengisDevil> One of your members mentioned that they offered it to you the next day.
[20:17] [E_T> listen, my DP is not happy at the moment, Dinner was ready about 1 hour ago and I've been here trying to get this straitend out
[20:17] [GhengisDevil> Understand.
[20:17] [E_T> I thing that was a non-official channel
[20:17] [E_T> AFAIK, that is
[20:20] [E_T> GF, did Lux tell you who they were going after?
[20:43] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> Man, I'm in it really deep tonight, oh well....
[20:51] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> If I'm getting you right, you don't know all of Lux's area, correct?
[20:51] [GhengisDevil> Nope, we have a warrior scouting it out right now though.
[20:51] [GhengisDevil> Just like the two down south.
[20:52] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> I really have a feeling that Lux is hiding something
[20:53] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> I've been having that feeling for a week or so, after I read a posted communication from them
[20:53] [GhengisDevil> I think they may have contacted Vox, Vox and Lux had a big chat in the chatroom last night.
[20:54] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> and tradeing with them. What if they trade HR with Vox
[20:57] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> did they offer you some form of 2 for 1 tech deal?
[20:58] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> i.e. give us 2 now for the 1, and well give you 2 in the next deal?
[20:58] [GhengisDevil> No, if fact they are very dependent on us for their next techs.
[20:59] [GhengisDevil> Its been strictly a 1 for 1 deal except when they trhrew in the Bronzeworking bonuson top of the agreed upon deal.
[21:00] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> because they came to us with a deal of us giving them 2 techs for 1, then getting us 2 forn teh next time we traded techs. We refused and just went a regular trade
[21:01] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> aren't they doing any research?
[21:02] [GhengisDevil> I know what they are researching but I agreed not to tell your team.
[21:03] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> no problem, but you didn't tell them that you wouldn't tell us what the Weren't researching, right...
[21:18] [E_T> especially If there is a secret back channel with a lost civ
[21:20] [GhengisDevil> There was no reason for them to be in that private chatroom for 4 hours if they weren't hammering out a deal.
[21:22] [E_T> that could be very true, we have been inquiring, but have been "assured" that there is now contact
[21:22] [GhengisDevil> with Vox?
[21:23] [E_T> Yes, I do beleave and they (lux) might be taking both of us
[21:24] [E_T> that's where I started getting suspicious of them, with that 2 for 1 deal
[21:24] [E_T> especially if they were to go to war with some one
[21:24] [E_T> they would still bew able to provide
[21:25] [E_T> but how could they, if they didn't already have contact
[21:25] [GhengisDevil> It is my opinion that Lux takes pleasure out of wording treaties so so and then hitting you with a clause your didn't notice
[21:26] [E_T> that's seems to be true, and also twisting the deals to sound too good to be true
[21:26] [GhengisDevil> Exactly
[21:46] [GhengisDevil> I can say that ND and GoW are researching Construction and Currency next
[22:17] [E_T> Hmmm, interesting.... Thanks

[adaMada]

Potential Deals GoW's offered us:
1. 20g and HBR now for removal of warriors and writing in 4 turns
2. HBR for removal and writing in 4 turns.
3. HBR now and 60 gold in 4 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns.
4. 35 gold for removal and writing in 4 turns.
** writing in 4 turns means as soon as we get it **

Notes:
They've clearly made option four lousy to prevent us from taking it, but I could probably turn around to them and say "We take option three, but don't bother to send us HBR." Even if they know it means we'll be cheeting on em, I don't see how they can refuse .

More summary information for everyone too busy to read the whole chat will be posted later, but right now, I wanna get the logs up.

-- adaMada

EDIT: Togas -- After you left it came out that they don't have 100 gold, and they won't have 100 gold for some period of time after we have writing. They offer a variaty of other combinations. They've also gone as far as to state that, if we make the trade with Lux, they MIGHT be able to declare war on us -- in their minds, it's a gray area. They'd def. be able to declare war on Lux, since Lux'd be breaking an agreement we have with them. It's fairly moot, since (in my opinion) they won't declare war on us, even if they feel they can -- a two way war would be bad, and I'm fairly sure everyone in the chat knew it . For all it's worth, Ghengis was there for a while, and he was acting fairly reasonabe as well. Will post any other desired information tomorrow, but it's 12 AM my time, and I'm not sure I'm literate anymore .

[E_T]

More than a few hours getting GoW to back off, but we did it..

Eta Tamali

[adaMada]

GoW Chat Log; Part 1

EDIT: Thanks to E_T for fixing up the logs so they show correctly .

Session Start (apolyton.net:#GoW-Roleplay): Mon Jan 27 18:50:12 2003
[18:50] *** Now talking in #GoW-Roleplay.
*** Users on #GoW-Roleplay: adaMada @Panzer32_FAC
*** End of /NAMES list.
*** Mode for channel #GoW-Roleplay is "+"
*** Channel #GoW-Roleplay was created at Mon Jan 27 18:43:17 2003
[18:50] *** Join to #GoW-Roleplay completed in 0 seconds.
[18:50] [adaMada> Hello
[18:50] *** E_T (E_T@216-53-175-132.ppp.mpinet.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[18:50] [E_T> Hi guys
[18:50] [Panzer32_FAC> hello
[18:51] [adaMada> Hey E_T
[18:53] [adaMada> Ok
[18:53] [adaMada> Panzer, about your last PM
[18:53] *** Gov_Donegeal (donegeal@24-196-141-240.mad.wi.charter.com) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[18:53] [Panzer32_FAC> adaMada - Yes?
[18:54] [Gov_Donegeal> Hello Gentlemen...
[18:54] [E_T> Hi Donegeal
[18:54] *** Gov_Donegeal is now known as Donegeal
[18:54] *** Panzer32_FAC is now known as GoW_Panzer32
[18:55] [Donegeal> So what is on the agenda for tonight?
[18:55] [GoW_Panzer32> Foreign relations
[18:56] [GoW_Panzer32> mainly this PM:
[18:56] [adaMada> Do we understand correctly that you traded Horseback to both Lux and nD?
[18:56] [GoW_Panzer32> adaMada,
[18:56] [Donegeal> ah... Crap! I shoulda known.... I will try to be on ... my best behavior...
[18:56] [GoW_Panzer32> We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team.
[18:56] *** GhengisDevil (~Java_user@ip68-12-229-156.ok.ok.cox.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[18:56] [adaMada> Ah, Hey Ghengis
[18:56] [GoW_Panzer32> From Me
[18:56] [adaMada> We get to talk to the big man himself
[18:56] [GhengisDevil> Hey
[18:56] [GoW_Panzer32> GD... heh
[18:57] [GhengisDevil> No, Lucifer outranks me
[18:57] [GoW_Panzer32> On the Agenda: We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team.
[18:57] [GoW_Panzer32> This is my last PM to the Roleplay team
[18:57] [adaMada> Really? Well, there can be more than one big man
[18:57] [adaMada> Ok
[18:57] [GhengisDevil> When I popped into the main chatroom NYE said "speak of the devil"
[18:57] [adaMada> I won't copy my last one in here, since it was rather long
[18:57] [Donegeal> So... what about that PM is there to discuss?
[18:58] [GoW_Panzer32> content
[18:58] [GoW_Panzer32> mainly what does Roleplay want for writing
[18:58] [GhengisDevil> content?
[18:59] [GoW_Panzer32> Therefore: Roleplay, what would your team want for writing?
[18:59] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max1-9.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #GoW-roleplay
[18:59] [mrmitchell> hullo
[18:59] [GoW_Panzer32> hullo
[18:59] [adaMada> Well, right now, we'd like to sort out one or two other things before we can discuss a writing deal
[18:59] [GoW_Panzer32> PS- mrmitchell your team just surrendered to the GoW!! j/k
[18:59] [E_T> Actually, we aren't sure, AFAIK
[19:00] [GoW_Panzer32> sort out what?
[19:00] [mrmitchell> Panzer--ya know, that jokes been around so many times its kinda old
[19:00] [mrmitchell>
[19:00] [GhengisDevil> I had forgotten about the surrender thing.
[19:00] [GoW_Panzer32> Roleplay's territory?
[19:00] [adaMada> right now, i don't have authorization to make ANY writing trade, and (as I've told Panzer) I'm afraid we'll have to work out a few other things first
[19:01] [GoW_Panzer32> yes... you possibly being replaced?
[19:01] *** Aidun (~Aidun@ew-dsl-217-8-111-122.eweka.nl) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[19:01] [adaMada> We need to reestablish a good relationship
[19:01] [Aidun> Hello guys
[19:01] [GoW_Panzer32> hullo
[19:01] [adaMada> I've informed Panzer that I may be replaced shortly
[19:01] [GhengisDevil> By who?
[19:01] [mrmitchell> I'm the assistant diplo to LI
[19:01] [E_T> That is the thing that is on everyone's mind
[19:01] [mrmitchell> so I'm not very helpful here :P
[19:02] [adaMada> First things first, i think we had some very bad miscommunication about the territory

[19:02] [GhengisDevil> YES! MrMitchell will be an excellent replacement the "surrendering Ambassador" that's what we'll call him
[19:02] [adaMada> I understand a lot of feathers got ruffled the wrong way, and I apologize for that -- my fault as much as anyone's
[19:02] [E_T> don't know yet, but Grand Despot Togas is not too happy with him, for some strange reason
[19:03] [adaMada> I KNEW I shouldn'tve stepped on his royal pots...
[19:03] [Aidun> Very strange, I hope he's not gone mad
[19:03] [GhengisDevil> I'm sorry, but everytime I hear "Grand Despot Togas" I think of a hotel.
[19:03] [adaMada> anyway, my future is rather unimportant
[19:03] [adaMada>
[19:03] [GoW_Panzer32> OK- on the subject of territory: how will the GoW know where exactly it is if Roleplay will not supply a map with it marked?
[19:04] [adaMada> Panzer - I understand what you're saying
[19:04] [GoW_Panzer32> Why does everything you type have a 1 in front of it?
[19:04] [GoW_Panzer32> good
[19:04] [GhengisDevil> i was wondering that too
[19:04] [adaMada> As I told you, it was put to a vote, and .jpg trades were decided to be against the spirit of the game
[19:04] [Aidun> There is a mojority against trading maps
[19:04] [mrmitchell> bleh.
[19:04] [Aidun> at this stage
[19:04] [adaMada> When we're so close to mapmaking
[19:05] [adaMada> having said that, we've given you the approximate size of the area we've claimed...
[19:05] [GhengisDevil> 2I agree with no map trades as it shouldn't be technically feasible.
[19:05] [mrmitchell> .jpg? what is that? this simple Spanish farmer knows only of his fields, his city, and his Squid.
[19:05] [E_T> That was put to a vote, to trade a JPG map, but was soundly voted down, but not unamimous
[19:05] [adaMada> Panzer: Who's got ones in front of their messages? Is it me?
[19:05] [GhengisDevil> 3ND claims the territory your talking about is much more than what youv'e told us it was
[19:05] [GoW_Panzer32> ok... so I propose giving us the map of the territory with no territory (black) and your capitol city marked on it
[19:05] [GoW_Panzer32> adaMada: yes
[19:06] [GoW_Panzer32> it looks like
[19:06] [GoW_Panzer32> 1This
[19:06] [adaMada> Really? Sorry :-
[19:06] [GhengisDevil> 9That's okay
[19:06] [adaMada> Computer's acting weird -- using a different chat program also
[19:06] [mrmitchell> i dont see it
[19:06] [GhengisDevil> 3I've gotten used to it
[19:06] [E_T> I just got a 1 and a 9
[19:06] [mrmitchell> but Ghengis, you just said "3I've gotten used to it"
[19:06] [mrmitchell> it might be on your end
[19:07] [adaMada> Re: our territory and what ND's apparently told you
[19:07] [GhengisDevil> 4I'm putting random numbers at the beginning so that adaMada feels comfortable.
[19:07] [GoW_Panzer32> ask Ghengis about ND
[19:07] [adaMada> Ghengis -- Thanks
[19:07] [GhengisDevil> 6No problem
[19:07] * Donegeal slaps GhengisDevil around a bit with a large trout
[19:07] [GhengisDevil> 7984Ouch 37509043
[19:07] [adaMada>
[19:07] [E_T> the problem is that we would trade the maps, IF we had mapmaking.
[19:07] [Aidun> I'm going to act as DM again
[19:08] [GhengisDevil> i agree with ET
[19:08] [adaMada> I'm with E_T
[19:08] [adaMada> I WISH we had mapmaking
[19:08] [adaMada> It'd make the issue simpler
[19:08] [E_T> we still need to get Writing
[19:08] [mrmitchell> gotta go, brb
[19:08] *** Signoff: mrmitchell (Quit: )
[19:08] [GhengisDevil> What we are trying to do is map the coast so that we can see where potential islands are located
[19:08] [Donegeal> you mean its ok for minimaps and not for maps? Make up your minds!
[19:09] [GoW_Panzer32> even if you had mapmaking, and we traded maps ingame, we still wouldn't have your territory marked!
[19:09] [GhengisDevil> We honestly don't care where your cities are.
[19:09] [GoW_Panzer32> quiet, GD!!
[19:10] [E_T> The Mini map trade was to help us join up sooner and start teh trading/diplomacy sooner
[19:10] [adaMada> Ghengis -- I understand what you mean
[19:10] [GhengisDevil> 666That's it, I'm warming up the Brimstone.
[19:10] [E_T> the Minimaps did not reveal that much info compaired to full blown maps
[19:10] [Donegeal> I though that you guys were going to be all or nothing with the RP stuff....
[19:11] [Donegeal> I guess its just when its convienent for you that is...
[19:11] [GoW_Panzer32> If we don't know where your territory is, how do we know where we can move??
[19:11] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max2-36.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[19:11] [mrmitchell> hullo again
[19:11] [adaMada> Panzer -- we understand the issue. We've given you an approximate size of our location, and we were hoping you could find a way around -- with our guidance, of course
[19:11] [GhengisDevil> What guidance? "Stay away"?
[19:12] [E_T> THe mini-map trades was, as some of us RP'ed, "Given to us via the spirits of both of our Ancestors"
[19:12] [GoW_Panzer32> adaMada: If you could give us specific instructions on how to move boardering with your territory, but not inside, it would be good
[19:12] [adaMada> We can describe the size and location of the area we've marked as our own, and if you do start to wonder in, we'd be happy to give you a friendly message
[19:14] [Donegeal> So you blantently use RP to cover up times when it would best suit your team to NOT rp?
[19:14] [adaMada> Donegeal -- we use RP except when we're lazy
[19:15] [GoW_Panzer32> adaMada - instructions like from this mountain go W,NW,E,S,SE, etc
[19:16] [GhengisDevil> Bush should send Donegeal to Iraq as a weapons inspector, we'd be at war in no time.
[19:16] *** Signoff: GoW_Panzer32 (Quit: Leaving)
[19:16] [E_T> basically, the instructions that you would like are " to please head back north", that's simple isn't it
[19:16] *** GoW_Panzer32 (~Java_user@24.150.253.142) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[19:16] [GoW_Panzer32> what happened??
[19:16] [GhengisDevil> ET hit you with a rock
[19:16] [mrmitchell> [E_T> basically, the instructions that you would like are " to please head back north", that's simple isn't it
[19:16] [mrmitchell> Ghengis: no lieing! :P
[19:17] [mrmitchell> :P
[19:17] [mrmitchell>
[19:17] [GhengisDevil> He was unconscious, he'l never know different.
[19:17] [adaMada> Panzer - I'll dsicuss it with Togas
[19:17] [mrmitchell> :P
[19:17] [GoW_Panzer32> ok, thanks adaMada
[19:17] [adaMada> But I obviously can't promise much (if anything)
[19:18] [adaMada> The odd thing is that we really don't need to compete for exploration or even settlement
[19:18] [GoW_Panzer32> right now it seems like Roleplay is taking up the whole south of the continent, so I would just like to be sure you aren't
[19:18] [GhengisDevil> So basically there is absolutely no trade for Writing?
[19:18] [adaMada> Panzer -- We claimed a very small area for that reason. Right now, we're starting small
[19:18] [E_T> Personally, I think that Togas is going a bit overboard, but I'm not the Grand Despot either
[19:18] [adaMada> Ghengis -- Right now, I've no authorization for one
[19:19] [GhengisDevil> Okay, that's all I needed to know
[19:19] [GoW_Panzer32> do you think there might be? (anyone?)
[19:19] [mrmitchell> ahh, to be Grand Despot for a day
[19:19] [mrmitchell> :P
[19:19] [GoW_Panzer32> we need to drag Togas in here...
[19:20] [adaMada> To be honest, I odn't understand why this is even an issue, however
[19:20] [GhengisDevil> I think that would be an act of war
[19:20] [E_T> Just to let you guys know, our area isn't that Hospitable
[19:20] [adaMada> We're only interested in the southern side of the continent
[19:20] [GhengisDevil> Ada, here's why we're not happy:
[19:20] [mrmitchell> eh, ghengis, you just want to get out in the battlefields. it's your team's name, for pete's sake. :P
[19:20] [adaMada> You'll notice we've not come nearly so far to the north
[19:20] [adaMada> As far as we're concerned, we could practically split the continent and agree to trade maps
[19:20] [GhengisDevil> We proposed a tech alliance and every civ researched a tech
[19:21] [GhengisDevil> Togas agree to research Writing.
[19:21] [GhengisDevil> Every civ EXCEPT ROLEPLAY followed through with the techs.
[19:21] [E_T> Yes, we have only come as far north to make contact, then have removed ourselves back to our homes
[19:22] [GoW_Panzer32> Territory is less of an issue than tech for the GoW
[19:22] [E_T> We are still researching Writing
[19:22] [mrmitchell> brb (133k)
[19:22] [GhengisDevil> But you already declared you wouldn't trade it to us.
[19:22] [E_T> you can not trade someting that you don't have
[19:22] [Donegeal> Yeah... you went north, made contact... saw it was croweded and decided to claim all that open land in the south. Figuring that there wert any goodie huts left...
[19:23] [GoW_Panzer32> but you said you wouldn't trade when you get it!
[19:23] [E_T> Togas might have declaired that, but he's not the whole team, either...
[19:23] [adaMada> Togas is angry right now
[19:23] [E_T> and AFAIK, we are still debaiting this
[19:23] [adaMada> He is refusing to trade point blank
[19:23] [adaMada> Others disagree
[19:23] [GhengisDevil> You would have had Horseback Riding 5 turns ago if you hadn't refused to trade Writing when you got it.
[19:23] [GoW_Panzer32> Get him unangry!
[19:24] [adaMada> Right now, that's why I think we should resolve our other conflicts first
[19:24] [GoW_Panzer32> yeah, what GD said
[19:24] [GoW_Panzer32> what other conflicts?
[19:24] [E_T> but teh thing that we need is a showing of faith and removing yourself back up north
[19:24] [GoW_Panzer32> For us, this is the main one right now
[19:24] [GoW_Panzer32> for you, we need a showing of faith and agree to trade writing with us
[19:25] [GhengisDevil> Togas has no reason to be angry. He said one thing, and then did the opposite. We would have gone back if Togas had not broken his word before we got there
[19:25] [Donegeal> You want a show of "faith"? Give us a Jpg of the south and we'll leave!
[19:25] [mrmitchell> back
[19:25] [Donegeal> make some kakamayme story about your "gods" and be done with it!
[19:25] [mrmitchell> , what did i miss
[19:25] [GhengisDevil> The territory and maps are a completely different issue than the techs.
[19:25] [adaMada> Donegeal -- we'll happily trade maps with you as soon as it's possible
[19:26] [mrmitchell> just more bickering? sounds ok then :P
[19:26] [adaMada> Ghengis -- I wish they were, and I'd really like em to be, but I think the resolutions'll have to go hand in hand
[19:26] [Donegeal> What? No one over there has a Screen capture?
[19:26] [E_T> the thing is, that the people who are semi-pro GoW are not likeing this and won't change their minds until you show that your headed back north
[19:26] [adaMada> Since both teams are angry at the other
[19:26] [GhengisDevil> Maps aren't technically an option untill Mapmaking
[19:26] [GoW_Panzer32> thats a while away
[19:26] [adaMada> Ghengis - look, here's the big issue
[19:26] [adaMada> And Panzer and all
[19:26] [GhengisDevil> E_T that is a bunch of smoke.
[19:27] [E_T> is it really??
[19:27] [adaMada> We have NO reason to be in the north
[19:27] [adaMada> none whatsoever
[19:27] [adaMada> You've no reason to want to be in the south
[19:27] [Donegeal> yep... cause you know its full!
[19:27] [adaMada> any cities there'd have too much curruption
[19:27] [adaMada> We'd both like to trade maps
[19:27] [mrmitchell> true
[19:27] [mrmitchell> I agree with ada
[19:28] [adaMada> We'll both trade maps as soon as we've got mapmaking
[19:28] [mrmitchell>
[19:28] [GoW_Panzer32> so lets get a deal to trade maps when available, coupled with Horseback riding for writing deal, ok?
[19:28] [E_T> Personally, I don't care one way or teh other, just as long as we keep up good relations with everybody. THAT"S ALL I CARE ABOUT
[19:28] [adaMada> In the meanwhile, is there any reason we can't agree not to compete with each other?
[19:28] [GhengisDevil> Everybody stop for a minute.
[19:28] [adaMada> we don't NEED to be fighting for exploration -- we can cooperate late
[19:28] [mrmitchell> ok
[19:28] [adaMada> Ghengis -- Ok
[19:28] [GhengisDevil> Ada, you said not to compete with one another?
[19:29] [GhengisDevil> Yes/no?
[19:29] [E_T> we even had a few of our people set up maps for us to trade, but the vote was 83.3% against it
[19:30] [GoW_Panzer32> he did say that...
[19:30] [GhengisDevil> MAPS ARE NOPT AN ISSUE!!!!! Ada, you said not to compete with one another? Yes/no?
[19:30] * mrmitchell smacks adaMada upside the head with Ghengis's question
[19:30] [mrmitchell> answer, boy! :P
[19:30] [GoW_Panzer32> lol
[19:30] [Donegeal> cool
[19:30] *** GhengisDevil has left #GoW-Roleplay
[19:30] [mrmitchell> I dont understand what he said either :P
[19:30] [adaMada> Ghengis:
[19:31] [adaMada> grr, I was afk
[19:31] [GoW_Panzer32> I'll relay the message
[19:31] *** Ninotsback (~dninot@modemcable087.41-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[19:31] [Ninotsback> yi yiiii]
[19:31] [Ninotsback> oops, massive typo
[19:31] [mrmitchell> :P
[19:31] [mrmitchell> hello Ninot's Back.
[19:32] [adaMada> What I meant was that you guys are clearly trying to make a large bid in exploration
[19:32] [Ninotsback> i am, am I?
[19:32] [mrmitchell> ...so, do you have any problems? I mean, you are a back afterall.
[19:32] [adaMada> We've no reason to double up in that area
[19:33] [adaMada> We don't need information on the north right now, and I personally can't understand why you guys'd need information to the South
[19:33] [GoW_Panzer32> GF doesn't want to come back
[19:33] [adaMada> Tell GF I said Sorry, and that I was afk
[19:33] [adaMada> tell him I apologized, and I'm not trying to cause some sort of incident, even if I'm about to be fired
[19:34] [GoW_Panzer32> told...
[19:34] [E_T> We had 2 explores that went as far north that they wanted to go, and they are now back down here, where they belong
[19:34] [mrmitchell> We don't want to conquer anyone. We're just a bunch of simple roleplaying folks.
[19:35] [mrmitchell>
[19:35] [E_T> nod
[19:35] [GoW_Panzer32> sorry, guys... this kind of went downhill in a hurry :-/
[19:35] *** GhengisDevil (~Java_user@ip68-12-229-156.ok.ok.cox.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay

[adaMada]

GoW Chat Log; Part 2

[Edit] I did parts 1 and 2 for Ada


[19:36] [Ninotsback> welcome Ghengis
[19:36] [adaMada> Ghengis -- sorry for not answering, I was afk
[19:36] [mrmitchell> Ghengis was in #roleplay-gow :P
[19:36] [E_T> thanks for coming back, GF
[19:36] [GhengisDevil> I jsut want to clarify what the issues are and what each teams position is.
[19:36] [adaMada> Yes
[19:36] [adaMada> I agree
[19:36] [mrmitchell> ghengis--not such a bad idea
[19:37] [E_T> Issue @1
[19:37] [GhengisDevil> Right now there is a very good chance of war and I don't that it is necessary.
[19:37] [E_T> so do we
[19:37] [adaMada> Ghengis -- I agree, and I want to reassure you that WE have no intention of starting a war
[19:37] [adaMada> It's just counter productive
[19:37] [GoW_Panzer32> we don't want to either
[19:37] [E_T> Correct
[19:37] [adaMada> It lets Lux and ND pull ahead while we fight
[19:37] [GhengisDevil> Our concern is simply that we wamt an agreement for Writing when you have finished it.
[19:37] [E_T> and that's teh sentiment of the whole team
[19:37] [adaMada> Even Togas
[19:37] [mrmitchell> war??? no. not at all.
[19:38] [adaMada> Ghengis: I understand
[19:38] [mrmitchell> us RP peaceniks dont want war.
[19:38] [GhengisDevil> We are wasting resources because your team is refusing to negotiate with us. And that is making our teammembers very frustrated.
[19:39] [adaMada> The biggest issue for us is trust. Through these series of miscommunications, several members of our team believe that diplomacy between our teams has broken down. The warrior happens to make some members especially nervous
[19:39] [adaMada> I understand, and we are frustrated with this lack of progress too
[19:39] [GhengisDevil> There Is NO COMMUNICATION between our teams.
[19:39] [GoW_Panzer32> We can move the warrior
[19:39] [GhengisDevil> That;s the problem
[19:40] [adaMada> Ghengis -- I agree. That's something that needs to be ficed
[19:40] [adaMada> *fixed
[19:40] [mrmitchell> The Communications; the Warrior; the Trust. The Communicatons; The Warrior; The tRust.
[19:40] [E_T> and the were miscommunications, where the communications where through several channels, without the other channels knowing fully about them
[19:41] [adaMada> Look, I won't lie to you. I've no authorization to offer you ANY deal for writing right now, and to do so would be treason. If we agree on what are the issues, we can ALL turn around and try to sort them out
[19:41] *** DaPlague (~Java_user@129.177.50.193) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[19:42] [DaPlague> Hi diplomats and noblemen!
[19:42] [adaMada> E_T's right -- most of these disputes have been multileveled
[19:42] [adaMada> Hey DaPlague
[19:42] [DaPlague> So... Whats up then?
[19:42] [mrmitchell> Look, I'll be as simple as I can be. Roleplay is not bull****ting you.
[19:42] [GoW_Panzer32> sorting out issues...
[19:42] [adaMada> We've ALWAYS kept communications open with you, but I understand not always fruitfully
[19:42] [adaMada> That also needs to change
[19:43] [mrmitchell> Togas hands out authorization, and AFAIK ada has none at all (nor most diplos; is that right?)
[19:43] [mrmitchell> And we are trying to communicate. We want friends.
[19:43] [GoW_Panzer32> I don't see that there is no communication, only that the communication that has happened isn't working
[19:43] [adaMada> Agreed
[19:43] [Ninotsback> point
[19:44] [mrmitchell> You've a good point there Panzer
[19:44] [DaPlague> Its right. adaMada has no real power. Neither have we aristocrats...
[19:44] [mrmitchell> nor us Squid and clothing merchants
[19:44] [mrmitchell> :P
[19:45] [mrmitchell> actually, it's more of a side hobby. I just fish the squid and sell them. what i don't sell, i eat.
[19:45] [GoW_Panzer32> I think it would be good if we could deal directly with Togas - so things can be agreed upon more quickly
[19:45] [mrmitchell> and the stuff that grows on the outskirts of my feilds makes real good garments.
[19:45] [GoW_Panzer32> but that might not be possible :-\
[19:45] [adaMada> Panzer -- I'm afraid that was tried in the past, with less than fruitful results
[19:46] [DaPlague> Our despot is under the impression you are not negotiable.....
[19:46] [DaPlague> It wouldn't be wise to stress him further now.
[19:47] [Ninotsback> Togas wants the best to come of this for both nations, but he knows a diplomat will make a better negotiator than himself
[19:47] [mrmitchell> Our Despot, though hot-headed at times, will pull through. He's really an okay guy.
[19:48] [mrmitchell> (ooc, he is a lawyer, maybe that's why hes argumentative :P )
[19:48] [GoW_Panzer32> one minute...
[19:49] [GoW_Panzer32> ok: present this deal to togas:
[19:49] [DaPlague> Yeah, lawyers can be sort of... "difficult"
[19:49] [DaPlague> Sorry, you speak:::::::::::::::
[19:49] [GoW_Panzer32> We will immediatly move our warrior north if...
[19:50] [GoW_Panzer32> you give us writing when you finish it
[19:51] [GoW_Panzer32> (done, by the way)
[19:51] [mrmitchell> the conversation stopped dead
[19:51] [DaPlague> Hmm, I think he won't agree... What do you think?
[19:51] [GoW_Panzer32> u guys are speachless ;p
[19:51] [Donegeal> I could kick it up a few notches again if you want...
[19:51] [Ninotsback> im thinking personally. dont know about others
[19:52] [GoW_Panzer32> well, we could give you another thing
[19:52] [GoW_Panzer32> try a counter offer
[19:52] [DaPlague> BTW: I have orders to make it difficult for the warriors to continue in certain areas...
[19:53] [GoW_Panzer32> how about we throw in horseback riding?
[19:53] [mrmitchell> dead in the ground
[19:53] [DaPlague> Suppose he could take it? Hmm, more fair deal if you ask me.
[19:54] [adaMada> Panzer -- I'll present it to him, and I have high hopes
[19:55] [GhengisDevil> If we get an agreement by our next turn I can immediately move our warriors north and out of your territory.
[19:55] [adaMada> I'll do my best
[19:55] [DaPlague> However when the warrior goes north, we can escort them on the way. :-)
[19:55] [mrmitchell> aagh! I killed it Gilbert! I killed it!
[19:56] [adaMada> (Plague wants something to DO )
[19:56] *** Arnelos (~Arnelos@pool-138-88-166-133.res.east.verizon.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[19:56] [adaMada> Ghengis - Forgive my curiosity, but I do have one quesiton. I thought lux was also researching Horseback?
[19:56] [adaMada> Hey Arnelos]
[19:56] [GoW_Panzer32> hello Arnelow
[19:56] [DaPlague> Yeah. I am only ordered to escort their warrior. Not a VERY funny assignment.
[19:56] [DaPlague> Hey man.
[19:57] [Arnelos> hello
[19:57] [GoW_Panzer32> Lux is not
[19:57] [Arnelos> what's up?
[19:57] [adaMada> Is or was
[19:57] [adaMada> I'm probably misinformed -- I don't have the game, so I mainly go on what others tell me, and it sometimes causes slip ups
[19:57] [DaPlague> What? Are Lux the one lying to us ?
[19:58] [GoW_Panzer32> We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team.
[19:58] [GoW_Panzer32> READ THAT!!
[19:58] * mrmitchell slaps all who don't talk
[19:58] [adaMada> Panzer -- I know
[19:58] [GoW_Panzer32> that was my last PM to you guys
[19:58] [adaMada> I was just told something else also
[19:58] [adaMada> and as I said, I don't even HAVE PTW, so I'm just trynna figure it all out
[19:59] [GoW_Panzer32> yes...
[19:59] [GhengisDevil> We traded Horseback RIding to Lux 4 turns ago.
[19:59] [Arnelos> Lux sure doesn't think so ;p
[19:59] [Arnelos> (or at least they don't SAY so ;p )
[19:59] [GhengisDevil> If they telling you they are researching it they are lying to you
[19:59] [DaPlague> If you are speaking the truth, Panzer... then Lux are really naughty LIARs ! *grrrr*
[19:59] [GoW_Panzer32> Lux is LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH!!
[19:59] [adaMada> Ghengis -- This is part of our problem, then
[19:59] [GoW_Panzer32> I speak the truth
[20:00] [adaMada> we were obviously hearing slightly different things
[20:00] [adaMada> Panzer -- I don't doubt it personally
[20:00] [GhengisDevil> By not having communication we are more easily tricked.
[20:00] [adaMada> I agree
[20:01] *** mrmitchell has left #GoW-Roleplay
[20:01] [GoW_Panzer32> hehe we should get some Lux guy in here...
[20:01] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max2-36.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[20:01] [Arnelos> Panzer - probably not ;p
[20:01] [adaMada> Panzer -- It'd be harder then
[20:01] [GoW_Panzer32> lol - I know
[20:02] [GoW_Panzer32> just want to catch them in their lie
[20:02] [GoW_Panzer32> I wish
[20:02] *** Signoff: mrmitchell (Quit: )
[20:02] [adaMada> I dunno about everyone else, but Lux scares me the omst
[20:02] [adaMada> they seem to be the most willing to screw with everyone else
[20:03] [DaPlague> Well, how are we going to convince our Despot Togas, that Lux are the liars, and not GoW... I don't think it's easy!
[20:03] [GoW_Panzer32> yeah, they seem to be the sneakiest; and they have many veterans
[20:03] [Arnelos> besides... if I know Trip, he'll enter this room the moment he signs on anways
[20:03] *** dejon (dejon@24.43.111.225) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[20:03] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max2-36.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #Gow-roleplay
[20:03] [mrmitchell> hullo
[20:03] [adaMada> Veterans don't scare me. Sneaky people do
[20:03] [mrmitchell> ...
[20:03] [GoW_Panzer32> hey dejon
[20:03] [dejon> Hi everyone
[20:03] [dejon> More in here than I expected
[20:03] [GoW_Panzer32> Trip is on #civ3dem...
[20:03] [mrmitchell> k, i couldnt see what u were talking and had to dis/reconnect
[20:03] [Arnelos> oh plz.... everyone has lied to everyone about at least SOMETHING - this includes GoW AND RP - the difference is that Lux just lies more
[20:03] [GoW_Panzer32> but he's busy
[20:04] [Ninotsback> we lied?
[20:04] [adaMada> Arnelos -- Very true, but Lux does lie the most
[20:04] [GoW_Panzer32> oh, so RP lied...
[20:04] [adaMada> Did we?
[20:04] [dejon> RP NEVER lied!
[20:04] [Arnelos> - if GoW wants to play innocent, fine
[20:04] [Ninotsback> Arnelos likes broad statements
[20:04] [DaPlague> When did I LIE ? Tell me...
[20:05] [adaMada> lol, everyone chill down
[20:05] [Arnelos> You guys wanna play as adults, we do that... if you wanna play innocent, that's fine too
[20:05] [dejon> We simply didn't not talk about things we didn't wish too
[20:05] [GoW_Panzer32> he does - and we're doing more than 'playing' innocent - we are!
[20:05] [adaMada> Arn's talking fact -- everyoen's first obligation is to their team
[20:05] [GhengisDevil> Trip's been signed on for hours
[20:05] [adaMada> BUT that doesn't mean we're lying
[20:05] [DaPlague> We can hold back the truth, but thats not to lie!
[20:05] [adaMada> Lying makes my job HARDER not easier
[20:05] [adaMada> So I'd personally rather avoid it
[20:05] [GhengisDevil> We haven't lied about anything that i'm aware of?
[20:05] [GoW_Panzer32> yeah, when we find out, we attack you!
[20:06] [adaMada> And I've always said that you guys are an honest team -- mercs have to be
[20:06] [DaPlague> lol: Now you are joking!
[20:06] [GoW_Panzer32> I'm not aware of anything either, GD
[20:06] [Arnelos> it wasn't to you guys
[20:07] [GhengisDevil> What are we supposed to have lied about?
[20:08] [Arnelos> Ghengis - you???
[20:08] [Arnelos> oh plz
[20:08] [GhengisDevil> What?
[20:08] [Arnelos> come on... let's approach this as adults, shall we?
[20:08] [GhengisDevil> I might exagerate towards my point but not flat out lie.
[20:08] [Arnelos> :shrug:
[20:08] [GhengisDevil> i'm very prone to exaggeration.
[20:08] [Arnelos> whatever
[20:09] [GoW_Panzer32> btw, is anyone logging this?
[20:09] [DaPlague> Really? So then we wont call anyone LIARs from now on!!! (except for the Lux) *muhahahaa*
[20:09] [GoW_Panzer32> ROTFKLI
[20:09] [GoW_Panzer32> (ROTFKillingLuxInvicta)
[20:09] [dejon> lol
[20:09] [Ninotsback> roll on the floor killing lux invic? awesome, i got it
[20:09] [mrmitchell> lol
[20:10] [DaPlague> ROTFKLIWSMG
[20:10] [Arnelos> Ghengis... I thought ND was your guys main worry ;p
[20:10] [adaMada> Panzer -- I think I'm keeping a log
[20:10] [DaPlague> with a submachinegun
[20:10] [GoW_Panzer32> with submachine gun?
[20:10] [adaMada> depends on if Trillian's autologging
[20:10] [GoW_Panzer32> ok, ada
[20:10] [DaPlague> hehehe
[20:10] [GoW_Panzer32> just wondering
[20:11] [GhengisDevil> no comment
[20:12] [Arnelos> ok ;p
[20:12] [mrmitchell> ROFL@A
[20:12] [GoW_Panzer32> quiet...
[20:12] [GhengisDevil> no comment
[20:13] [GoW_Panzer32> any more issues?
[20:13] [DaPlague> Yeah, Im leaving... Good thing you folks can work deals!
[20:13] [GoW_Panzer32> cu
[20:13] [DaPlague> Its a goodbye issue... cu
[20:13] [GhengisDevil> Did we accomplish anything other than amusing ourselves?
[20:14] *** Signoff: DaPlague (Quit: Leaving)
[20:14] [Arnelos> good question
[20:14] [adaMada> Personally, I've some other ideas for ways we can work together and give each other easier time -- but lets first see if this deal goes through, or if I'll even have this job tomorrow
[20:14] [Arnelos> ada - care to summarize anything that WAS agreed to?
[20:14] [GoW_Panzer32> we let off some steam...
[20:14] [dejon> I have some questions, but I'll clear them with our diplomats first...
[20:14] [Ninotsback> im sure we have. havent we?
[20:15] [Arnelos> We did share some info of what Lux told us
[20:15] [GoW_Panzer32> consider agreement Writing for HBR and Warrior removal
[20:15] [GoW_Panzer32> We found out Lux is lying greatly
[20:16] [dejon> Q: Who named "Basher"?
[20:16] [Arnelos> and Basher, Jr?
[20:16] [GoW_Panzer32> GF, but Donegeal named him in game
[20:17] [GoW_Panzer32> Basher recruited Basher Jr
[20:17] [Arnelos> I see
[20:17] [Arnelos> the measly conscript
[20:18] [GhengisDevil> I did, we weren't very literate at that point.
[20:19] [GoW_Panzer32> any objections to adjournment?
[20:19] [adaMada> can you hang on for a sec/
[20:20] [adaMada> I might be able to give you some information in a few minutes
[20:20] [GhengisDevil> 1i gotta go
[20:20] [GoW_Panzer32> adaMada - if you are logging, could you send me a copy of the log when its over?
[20:20] [adaMada> Ok
[20:20] [GoW_Panzer32> ok, GF
[20:20] [GoW_Panzer32> see you later
[20:20] [GoW_Panzer32> I can stay
[20:20] [GhengisDevil> 1can someone else for GoW stay on for a while?
[20:20] [dejon> Bye GF
[20:21] [GoW_Panzer32> I'll stay
[20:21] [GhengisDevil> Thanks, see ya everybody
[20:22] * GoW_Panzer32 waves goodbye
[20:22] [adaMada> Togas's gotten back to us on writing. He's willing to sell it to you if you leave
[20:22] *** E_T is now known as E_T_Eating_Dinner
[20:22] [adaMada> Instead of horseback
[20:22] [GoW_Panzer32> for $?
[20:22] [adaMada> Yep
[20:22] [GoW_Panzer32> how much?
[20:23] [adaMada> Give me a sec...
[20:23] [adaMada> 100g
[20:24] [GhengisDevil> There is no way we can give you 1100 gold and anyone with intelligence knows that.
[20:24] [GoW_Panzer32> how do you expect us to get that much??
[20:24] [GhengisDevil> No one has that much gold until the late middle ages.
[20:24] [adaMada> 100
[20:24] [adaMada> not 1100
[20:24] [adaMada> or was that a typo?
[20:25] [dejon> 100, people. That was GF's typo.
[20:25] [GoW_Panzer32> oh, right!!! 100!!
[20:25] [adaMada> ohh
[20:25] [GoW_Panzer32> I thought it was 1100
[20:25] [Ninotsback> lol
[20:25] [Ninotsback> that would be funny
[20:25] [Arnelos> lol
[20:25] [Ninotsback> can we have Rocketry too?
[20:25] [Arnelos> We wouldn't mind 1100, though
[20:25] [GoW_Panzer32> cuz u still have that 1 thing infront of ur message
[20:25] [GhengisDevil> I forgot ada's comments have an extra 1 in front of them
[20:26] [GoW_Panzer32> ROFL - uhhh duhh
[20:26] [dejon> This is precisely the kind of thing that damages relations btwn our teams - miscommunication, overreacted to by GoW members. :rollseyes:
[20:26] [GhengisDevil> We would give you the 100 for Writing on the turn you finish it?
[20:26] [Ninotsback> dejon, shutup
[20:27] [GhengisDevil> Frenchie
[20:27] [Ninotsback> the French :rollseyes:
[20:27] *** GeneralTacticus (~angusnive@c18361.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[20:27] [GoW_Panzer32> hello
[20:27] [GeneralTacticus> hi
[20:28] [GeneralTacticus> What have i missed?
[20:28] [GoW_Panzer32> micommunication...
[20:28] [dejon> Oh, for crying out loud. :rollseyes: I'm not French, that is just roleplay in the SPDG. I'm as anglophone as they come.
[20:28] [Ninotsback> lo
[20:28] [adaMada> sorry, lemme check on when hte 100s due
[20:28] [GeneralTacticus> ...?
[20:28] [GoW_Panzer32> your anglaisphone?
[20:30] *** mrmitchell1 (mrmitchell@max2-36.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #gow-roleplay
[20:30] [mrmitchell1> hullo again
[20:31] [GoW_Panzer32> hello
[20:32] *** Aidun has left #GoW-Roleplay
[20:32] [GhengisDevil> How about a combo of Horseback now and gold when you finish researching Writing
[20:34] [Donegeal> sorry I must be going... It was a pleasure ruffling some feathers...
[20:34] [adaMada> Ghengis -- checking
[20:34] [GoW_Panzer32> bye Donegeal
[20:34] [dejon> Bye Donegeal
[20:34] [GhengisDevil> Bye Big D
[20:34] [adaMada> later don
[20:34] *** Donegeal has left #GoW-Roleplay
[20:35] [adaMada> Ghengis: How much Cash? The full 100g?
[20:35] [GhengisDevil> On the other hand, if we let Roleplay get Horseback from Lux or Nd that would be an act of war on the other teams part.........
[20:35] [GoW_Panzer32> I think 20 gold
[20:36] [Ninotsback> an act of war? thus, a hostile breach of agreement between yourselves and them?
[20:36] [dejon> An act of War? For a tech trade? :weird:
[20:36] [adaMada> Ghengis -- . You probably shouldn'ta told us that
[20:36] [GoW_Panzer32> yea
[20:36] [GhengisDevil> They've both signed treatys
[20:36] [GoW_Panzer32> don't listen, GF - reverse psycology
[20:37] [GhengisDevil> The problem is that would also make Roleplay a party to the act of war. So I'm not sure that's a good idea.
[20:38] [dejon> Can we assume that these treaties are "agreed upon" in a more formal manner than some of the agreements GoW thought it had with us?
[20:38] [GoW_Panzer32> yeah, there was some miscommunication there]
[20:39] [Arnelos> So let me get this straight.... if Lux Invcita were to give us Horseback Riding, Glory of War would then declare war on BOTH Lux Invicta AND Roleplay Team.... you can't possibly be serious
[20:40] [GhengisDevil> We would have an opportunity to .........
[20:40] [GhengisDevil> No one said we would actually do it.......
[20:40] [GoW_Panzer32> but we didn't say that
[20:40] *** Signoff: mrmitchell (Ping timeout)
[20:41] *** mrmitchell1 is now known as mrmitcell
[20:41] *** mrmitcell is now known as mrmitchell
[20:42] [dejon> So, you would go to war with us, because *someone else* traded us something they shouldn't have? Your agreement, however bizarre, is with THEM, not us.
[20:42] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> Man, I'm eating cold Chili & cold Cornbread and my DP is giving me a VERY cold shoulder, so What did I miss
[20:42] *** el_ruby_maser (ruby_maser@ppp-64-219-86-164.dialup.hstntx.swbell.net) has joined channel #gow-roleplay

[adaMada]

GoW Chat Log; Part 3

[EDIT] fixed this for Ada - E_T

[20:42] [adaMada> Panzer/Ghengis -- We're def. willing to agree to the 100 gold
[20:43] [GoW_Panzer32> we didn't say the WOULD go to war! We said we would have opertunity to.
[20:43] [GoW_Panzer32> ok, now about the 20 gold??
[20:43] [Arnelos> So you're bluffing... interesting
[20:43] [adaMada> I'm afraid that Togas may or may not accept the twenty gold deal -- money is at a preimum
[20:43] [GoW_Panzer32> we are stating facts!
[20:43] [adaMada> but he had to elave for a few hours
[20:43] [adaMada> Panzer -- we understand. Having said that, it couldn't possibly be in your interest to fight TWO nations at once
[20:44] [GhengisDevil> I need to know when you will have Writing done so that I can determine if we will have 100 gold
[20:44] [adaMada> that'd just be asking for ND to jump in and then you'd have a REAL problem
[20:44] [adaMada> Ghengis: Let me check so I don't make a mistake
[20:44] [Arnelos> 4 turns
[20:44] [Arnelos> I think
[20:44] [adaMada> Thats' what I remember too
[20:44] [GoW_Panzer32> not quite then
[20:44] [GhengisDevil> We won't have 100 gold in 4 turns.
[20:44] [Arnelos> We can wait a few turns
[20:44] [dejon> Personally, I don't care if your stance is hypothetical or not. GoW reps JUST said that they would go to WAR with RP if LUX broke an agreement with them. That is incredible!
[20:44] *** el_ruby_maser is now known as ruby_maser
[20:44] [adaMada> Bout how long till you guys think you have the money?
[20:45] [GhengisDevil> So I guess we'll have to reasearch Writing ourselves.
[20:45] [Arnelos> dejon - incredible it is, but I can see why
[20:45] [adaMada> Ghengis -- any estimate as to how long you'd be talking about?
[20:45] [GeneralTacticus> Well, war is their reason for existing, isn;t it?
[20:45] [GhengisDevil> We said it was legal grey area in regards to Roleplay.
[20:47] [Arnelos> Ghengis - I think this can be worked out, thankfully
[20:47] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> I see an opening here, that is hidden by this "grey Area", at least that's how I read it
[20:48] [GhengisDevil> Get serious our Horsemen would be 89 years old by the time they made it to your border.
[20:48] [GhengisDevil> They wouldn't remember their own names, let alone why they were there.
[20:48] [Ninotsback> lol
[20:48] [GoW_Panzer32> we would have to upgrade them to cavalry, the'd be so obselete
[20:48] [Arnelos> If the minimap was correct, it's 20-30 tiles
[20:48] [Arnelos> pretty darn far
[20:49] [Arnelos> and ND is directly in between
[20:49] [adaMada> Ghengis -- we're curious. Does the agreement actually SAY war with both teams if a trade is made?
[20:49] [GoW_Panzer32> OK how about this deal: 70 gold in 6 turns; and horseback riding now?
[20:49] [GhengisDevil> We might be able to get ND to let us use their roads. I hadn't though about that.
[20:49] *** dejon is now known as dejonDinner
[20:49] [adaMada> Panzer -- I've gotta clear any deal, and Togas isn't here right now :-
[20:50] [adaMada> :-\
[20:50] [GhengisDevil> No, but it would make the treaty invalid.
[20:50] [adaMada> If you give me the optoins, I'll present em later, or you're welcome to shoot us a PM with whatever options are out there
[20:50] [ruby_maser> without right of passage possible, ND's territory would still be one turn at a time
[20:50] [GhengisDevil> Which would allow the other team to declare war.
[20:50] [Arnelos> Ghengis - I doubt it ;p
[20:50] [Arnelos> (ND use of roads)
[20:51] [Arnelos> Ghengis and Panzer, your proposal sounds very good
[20:51] [GhengisDevil> We've let them use our roads.
[20:51] [Arnelos> you have roads? ;p
[20:51] [GhengisDevil> Joking.
[20:51] [GoW_Panzer32> Options: 1. 20g and horseback riding now for removal and Writing in 4 turns
[20:51] [GhengisDevil> We have sea lanes around our island empire.
[20:52] [ruby_maser> "for removal"?
[20:52] [Ninotsback> ruby, shhh, let the man talk
[20:52] [GoW_Panzer32> 2. HBR now and 70g in 6 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns
[20:52] [GoW_Panzer32> removal = GoW warrior goes away
[20:52] [ruby_maser> ty
[20:53] [GoW_Panzer32> 3. HBR for Writing and removal
[20:53] [GoW_Panzer32> out of ideas...
[20:53] [Arnelos> Those deals sound good... ada will have to take them back to Togas
[20:53] [GoW_Panzer32> unless u just want to give us writing...
[20:53] [Arnelos>
[20:54] [adaMada> Panzer - Would GoW accept waiting for writing until the cash was ready? (Anticipating Togas' next question)
[20:54] [adaMada> obviously you'd prefer it the other way, but...
[20:55] [GhengisDevil> Waiting until we had 100 gold? We wouldn't be able to research a tech to trade you which would hurt both of us.
[20:55] [GoW_Panzer32> how about 4. HBR now and 40g in 4 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns
[20:55] [adaMada> I understand that -- but if Togas won't accept it any other way...
[20:56] [GhengisDevil> The 100gold for Writing does NOT include the removal of our warriors.
[20:56] [Arnelos> Ghengis - understood
[20:56] [Arnelos> (that's what I thought the first time)
[20:57] [adaMada> Ghengis -- did'nt notice that
[20:57] [adaMada> soo... if we took the 100 gold, where'd the warrior go?
[20:57] [Arnelos> it doesn't have very many places TO go... there's no connection to any other continents and our land isn't very big...
[20:58] [GoW_Panzer32> I think you would guide him around your territory boarder
[20:58] [GoW_Panzer32> (using the directions I told you about earlier)
[20:58] [GhengisDevil> We will give you Horseback NOW, which gives youa very formidible Offense option, 60 g for Writing on the turn you finish it AND remove our two warriors from your territory back to our homelands.
[20:59] [GoW_Panzer32> ok - ammendment to #4: change from 40 to 60 gold
[20:59] [adaMada> What if we, for whatever reason, were unwilling to take Horseback from you?
[20:59] [Ninotsback> that sounds like an agreeable deal. if i were Togas, i'd say Yes
[21:00] [adaMada> Iw ould too, but I'm not Togas
[21:00] [GoW_Panzer32> Like, Lux offered it to you?
[21:00] [GoW_Panzer32> per-se?
[21:00] [adaMada> Understand, I'm just guessing at what Togas might say
[21:00] [adaMada> Say we got it in a goody hut
[21:01] [adaMada> Or we wanted to research it ourselves
[21:01] [adaMada> Or whatever
[21:01] [GoW_Panzer32> pending...
[21:01] [adaMada> I don't know what Togas wants, so I'm just asking everything now to save time later
[21:01] [adaMada> ok, thanks
[21:02] [GoW_Panzer32> 5. 35g now for removal and writing in 4 turns
[21:02] [Arnelos> Lux HAS offered us Horseback Riding - your deal sounds FAR better, though. Obviously, the despot (Togas) gets to make the decision on this, but I agree that your deal sounds good
[21:03] [GoW_Panzer32> yeah, Lux is a lying team anyways
[21:03] [Ninotsback> i share Arnelos' opinion completely
[21:04] [GhengisDevil> WRITE DOWN WHAT ARNELOS JUST SAID PANZER
[21:04] [adaMada> Ghengis, Ghengis, I'm the only one keeping a log
[21:05] [GhengisDevil> I just screen captured it!!!!!!!
[21:05] [GoW_Panzer32> hehe
[21:05] [GoW_Panzer32> writing it in hard copy
[21:05] [GhengisDevil> We now have proof Lux broke the treaty.
[21:05] [adaMada> They haven't broken it yet
[21:05] [Ninotsback> they havent made a trade. they considered it tho
[21:05] [GhengisDevil> They can't ever OFFER it.
[21:05] [Ninotsback> well then
[21:05] [Ninotsback> that makes that clear
[21:05] [Ninotsback> on the other hand, we have not accepted their deal at all
[21:06] [GhengisDevil> Busted
[21:06] [GoW_Panzer32> hehe
[21:06] [GhengisDevil> BFM swore to me this morning that he sent your team a memo that said they could not trade you Horseback Riding.
[21:07] [Ninotsback> we received just the opposite
[21:07] [Arnelos> yeah, we asked them about this "deal"
[21:07] [adaMada> Ghengis -- I belive you, personally
[21:07] [adaMada> *believe
[21:07] [adaMada> But ONE team is lying, and we really have no proof either wa...
[21:07] [adaMada> Any way we could, once and for all, settle the issue?
[21:07] [GoW_Panzer32> but the GoW does!
[21:08] [GoW_Panzer32> yes, take Lux out
[21:08] [Arnelos> What we've been wrestling with for the past WEEK is trying to figure out which of the two of you were lying (or both)
[21:08] [GhengisDevil> BFM told me this morning he could not send me a copy of the memo because he had to have your teams approval and yoru team wouldn't give it.
[21:09] [Arnelos> (we never said that)
[21:09] [Ninotsback> ok, very honestly now, i tell you, BFM never asked us for aproval on anything concering GoW
[21:09] [Arnelos> yup
[21:09] [adaMada> be right back
[21:09] [GhengisDevil> I know, I knew it when he told me, I've just been waiting for cold hard proof.
[21:09] [GoW_Panzer32> I don't know if there is any absolute concrete proof that we can show anyone... I mean, it is a computer, and things can be doctered.
[21:09] [Arnelos> FYI: Me saying something in a chat isn't cold hard proof ;p
[21:09] [GoW_Panzer32> But there are some things that are pretty convincing
[21:10] [Ninotsback> This swirl of controvorsy... every little "wrong" thing about it has SOMETHING to do with Lux
[21:10] [Arnelos> but given that Ninot agreed with me...
[21:10] [GoW_Panzer32> brb
[21:11] [GhengisDevil> Uggh, I have so much info on Lux but they made me sign agreements not to tell anyone about it.
[21:11] [Arnelos> interesting
[21:11] [adaMada> Ghengis -- if they don't honor your agreements...
[21:11] [adaMada>
[21:11] [GhengisDevil> Every freaking little memo has the you can't inform other teams about this clause.
[21:11] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> I've been truing to tell you all that Lux is not to be trusted, but have you been listening, nooo...
[21:12] [adaMada> E_T -- for all it's worth, I'm with you
[21:12] [Arnelos> E_T - we KNEW that Lux couldn't be trusted... that wasn't hte point ;p
[21:12] [GhengisDevil> you can't tell anyone we are negotiating this trade........
[21:12] [GoW_Panzer32> back
[21:12] [adaMada> I'm not sure if that's good or not
[21:12] [GhengisDevil> The trade thing is a Lux clause.
[21:12] [adaMada> Panzer -- I think I neglected to do it, btw, but you always do (and always have had) my permission to post my PMs on your public forum
[21:12] [Arnelos> We've always known that Lux couldn't be trusted, of course. But that doesn't prevent anyone from trading techs and such with them.
[21:13] [adaMada> it's always been understood, but I just realized I never made it explicit
[21:13] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> but Togas has and "understating" with them, just like Chamberland had an "understanding" with Herr Hitler....
[21:13] [GoW_Panzer32> thats ok- been doing it anyways
[21:13] [GhengisDevil> Togas and I had a very good relationship before all of this Lux crud.
[21:13] [GoW_Panzer32> u have mine, too
[21:14] [Arnelos> I think the relationship is more like Roosevelt's relationship with Stalin myself...
[21:14] [adaMada> Panzer -- me too
[21:14] [Arnelos> with Churchill being GoW perhaps?
[21:14] [GoW_Panzer32> Hitler-Chamberlain - good example
[21:14] [GoW_Panzer32> no, Lux is Germany
[21:14] [GhengisDevil> The whole reason RP isn't in the three northern civs' tech alliance is because of this miscommunication.l
[21:14] [Ninotsback> we never intended to leave the alliance
[21:15] [Arnelos> To be frank... we doubt the existence of a tech alliance because both other teams have been willing to trade with us quite freely
[21:15] [Ninotsback> and everyone was at a loss when things got mangled up
[21:15] [adaMada> As far as I knew, the tech alliance was a discussion that never got off the ground
[21:15] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> and we only had hear about it that one time
[21:15] [Ninotsback> yeah but Arnelos, if both are being dishonest to GoW... they can be as willing as they want to be
[21:15] [GhengisDevil> Well , to be honest GoW is the go between as Lux and ND don't like to trade to each other.....
[21:16] [adaMada> brb for real this time
[21:16] [Arnelos> :shrug: .... the dynamics are simple, really... we have Writing... people want it... they're willing to trade for it. "tech alliance" or no
[21:16] [E_T_Eating_Dinner> Must be some bad blood
[21:16] [Arnelos> we noticed that as well... ND and Lux don't seem to like one another
[21:17] [GhengisDevil> Here is why everyone wants Writing. We have already agree adn assigned all of the techs for research except the ones requiring Writng.
[21:17] *** E_T_Eating_Dinner is now known as E_T
[21:17] [GoW_Panzer32> hehe no they don't
[21:17] [Arnelos> this tech alliance reminds me OPEC... everyone's willing to agree to the quotas, but then EVERYONE cheats
[21:18] [GoW_Panzer32> OPEC=? (i forget)
[21:18] [adaMada> back
[21:18] [GhengisDevil> No one has cheated yet, Lux and ND have given us every tech on time every time
[21:18] [Arnelos> Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries
[21:18] [GoW_Panzer32> ah
[21:18] [E_T> Yeh, and someone is making out like a bandit, if they do it right
[21:18] [adaMada> Ghenigs -- As I said, I wasn't even aware that there was some tech option we were missing out on until now
[21:19] [adaMada> I knew there'd been discussion...
[21:19] [adaMada> I mean, some tech alliance
[21:19] [adaMada> but I didn't realize it was a reality
[21:20] [E_T> AFAIK, it was never explored further, but that might have been because of the last incedednt
[21:20] [E_T> and you didn't want to persue it with us
[21:22] [Arnelos> and we certainly were not worried if everyone was willing to give us good techs in return for Writing
[21:22] [GhengisDevil> I have tried... Panzer has been sending you pms every other day to work out a deal with Writing.
[21:22] [Arnelos> Togas insists that any deal for Writing include a provision that your warriors leave... for him, that's non-negotiable
[21:23] [GhengisDevil> Togas told me you were going after Mapmaking when you finished Writing
[21:23] [Arnelos> I honestly don't know... I'm Domestic Minister of sorts, not Science Advisor ;p
[21:24] [Arnelos> If that's Togas' plan, cool. He didn't post that to my knowledge, though
[21:24] [GhengisDevil> We
[21:24] [GhengisDevil> We'll leave now, and give you60 gold for Writing the turn you finish it.
[21:25] [adaMada> If Togas'll take it, fine
[21:25] [adaMada> I mean, good
[21:25] [adaMada> I like the deal, perosnally
[21:25] [Ninotsback> and horseback riding immediately?
[21:25] [GoW_Panzer32> thats option 4 - HBR
[21:25] [GoW_Panzer32> (minus)
[21:25] [adaMada> Ok
[21:25] [Ninotsback> zuh?
[21:25] [Arnelos> ok
[21:25] [Arnelos> thanks guys
[21:26] [adaMada> Thanks for being reasonable -- it's good we had this chat
[21:26] [adaMada> We managed to clear up a lot of issues
[21:26] [GoW_Panzer32> I agree
[21:26] [GoW_Panzer32> definatly
[21:26] [Ninotsback> yes. my personal opinion of GoW has grown incredibly

[adaMada]

GoW Chat Log; Part 4

[EDIT] I fixed this for ada - E_T

[21:26] [adaMada> As soon as I get up with Togas -- If I dont' catch him in the chat soon, I'll post/PM -- I'll find out what options he'll accept
[21:26] [GoW_Panzer32> good
[21:26] [GhengisDevil> Horseback, Run Away, 60 gold, Writing ASAP
[21:27] [GhengisDevil> that was shorthand
[21:27] [Ninotsback> yup. sounds great
[21:27] [GoW_Panzer32> 1. 20g and HBR now for removal of warriors and writing in 4 turns
[21:27] [GoW_Panzer32> 2. HBR now and 70g in 6 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns.
[21:27] [GoW_Panzer32> 3. HBR for removal and writing in 4 turns.
[21:27] [GoW_Panzer32> 4. HBR now and 60 gold in 4 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns.
[21:27] [GoW_Panzer32> 5. 35 gold for removal and writing in 4 turns.
[21:27] [GoW_Panzer32> there
[21:27] [adaMada> thajnks
[21:27] [Arnelos> Togas is at dinner with his girlfriend... should be back in a few hours I guess
[21:27] [adaMada> *thanks
[21:27] [adaMada> Arn -- probably
[21:28] [GhengisDevil> What the heck is option 2?
[21:28] [GoW_Panzer32> I said it up there
[21:28] [GoW_Panzer32> way up there
[21:28] [E_T> that is if she doesn't De-Breif him.....
[21:28] [Ninotsback> where the hell did i leave my TV clicker?
[21:28] [Ninotsback> lol ET
[21:29] [GhengisDevil> WEe give them Horseback Riding now, 60 gold in 6 tuns for Writing 4 turns after that and remove our warriors when we pay them gold?
[21:29] [GhengisDevil> 70 gold
[21:29] [GoW_Panzer32> ?
[21:30] [GhengisDevil> Scratch option 2 its confusing.
[21:30] [GoW_Panzer32> I thought all of those were immediate removal
[21:30] [GhengisDevil> not for 70 gold
[21:30] [GoW_Panzer32> ok, no option 2
[21:31] [GhengisDevil> Writing for 4 turns actually means 4 turns from now?
[21:31] [GoW_Panzer32> yes. They said they finish writing in 4 turns.
[21:31] [GhengisDevil> And not 4 turns from when we give them the gold?
[21:32] [GoW_Panzer32> no
[21:32] [GhengisDevil> okay
[21:32] [GoW_Panzer32> 1. 20g and HBR now for removal of warriors and writing in 4 turns
[21:32] [GoW_Panzer32> 2. HBR for removal and writing in 4 turns.
[21:32] [GoW_Panzer32> 3. HBR now and 60 gold in 4 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns.
[21:32] [GoW_Panzer32> 4. 35 gold for removal and writing in 4 turns.
[21:32] [GoW_Panzer32> writing in 4 turns means as soon as they get it
[21:33] [adaMada> Ok
[21:33] [GhengisDevil> i don't know if I was them I'd be taking option 3.
[21:33] [GoW_Panzer32> me too
[21:34] [adaMada> Obviously, these deals all assume that we're still at peace and etc. in the four/six turns...
[21:34] [adaMada> but I'm not expecting to go to war anytime soon personally
[21:34] [E_T> nor am I
[21:34] [GhengisDevil> Oh great now their planning a war too. Why is the Warmonger team the only ones not plotting a war already?
[21:35] [adaMada> That's what we were wondering...
[21:35] [Arnelos> lol
[21:35] [Arnelos> As I said earlier... I thought ND was your target ;p
[21:35] [GoW_Panzer32> oh?
[21:35] [Arnelos> Ghengis said "no comment"
[21:35] [GhengisDevil> We have a huge advantage of being able to leverage the resources of FOUR civs to advance way ahead of the other teams and a war will give us no benefit.
[21:35] * GoW_Panzer32 whistles inconspiculously (also no comment)
[21:36] [Arnelos> but I suppose Lux just moved up on the "****list"
[21:37] [Ninotsback> we never plotted a war did we?
[21:37] [Arnelos> as for Legoland... Nimitz told me just the other night that they have an entire CONTINENT to themselves... something tells me they're going to be PRETTY powerful compared to all of us
[21:37] [GhengisDevil> Honestly, I only plan to advocate war if one of the civs doesn't contribute to the freater good. As long as we're all trading and advancing faster than the other three I'm plotting to beat up the tech bacwards barbarians.
[21:37] [Ninotsback> niiiice
[21:38] [GoW_Panzer32> di you guys get a mail from GS talking about barbarians?
[21:38] [GhengisDevil> We have the potential to attack GS's Horsemen with Cavalry.
[21:38] [Arnelos> We got some communication from GS lately, but I don't remember what all was in it
[21:38] [GhengisDevil> Now don't tell me that wouldn't be fun.
[21:39] [Arnelos> huh?
[21:39] [GoW_Panzer32> attack Horse with Cav
[21:39] [Arnelos> :shrug:
[21:39] *** Signoff: Ninotsback (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:40] *** Ninotsback (~dninot@modemcable087.41-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[21:40] *** Ninotsback is now known as Ninot
[21:40] [Ninot> Worm kicked me offline
[21:41] [GoW_Panzer32> Ninots back is back but hes not ninotsback anymore.... maybe hes ninotsbackisback
[21:41] [Ninot> lol... i wish
[21:42] [E_T> Ninot, your not suppost to eat that kind of worm....
[21:42] [Ninot> damnit. now im REALLY drunk
[21:42] [Ninot> rather than the usual
[21:42] [GhengisDevil> He drank the wrom
[21:42] [GhengisDevil> worm
[21:45] * E_T is going to go and have a Cigarette, back in a few
[21:45] [adaMada> 'k
[21:46] *** E_T is now known as E_T_Outside_Having_a_Cigarette
[21:46] [GoW_Panzer32> adaMada - do you have my email?
[21:47] [adaMada> Panzer -- I believe I do from the minimap trade
[21:47] [GoW_Panzer32> right
[21:47] [Arnelos> Ghengis and Panzer - btw, I'm the one playing China in our 4-player internal game It's fun
[21:48] [GoW_Panzer32> I'm playing China in a few games...
[21:48] [GhengisDevil> You have an internal PBEM game, no wonder your forum has so many posts....
[21:48] [GoW_Panzer32> we were going to, but not much interest
[21:48] [GhengisDevil> We've been trying to get an internal PBEM, what Panzer said
[21:48] [adaMada> we've got a rather active populance
[21:48] [GoW_Panzer32> maybe I should get that started again...
[21:48] [Arnelos> Ghengis... that and the HUGE HUGE HUGE amount of RP
[21:49] [adaMada> How can you tell how many posts are on our forum? Besides the "last poster" indicator for the PTW-Demogaem anyway...
[21:49] [GhengisDevil> I sometimes wonder how much RP versus plotting there is in your forums.
[21:49] [adaMada> We can't tell you
[21:49] [adaMada> It'd make us -- unintimidating
[21:49] [adaMada> lol
[21:49] [Arnelos> RP takes up more POSTS than anything else, but postcount doesn't mean everything as you know
[21:49] [GoW_Panzer32> I think the ratio is 1rp / plot
[21:50] [GoW_Panzer32> per 3 plots i mean
[21:50] [GhengisDevil> I would assume Ninot posts an awful lot there as I haven't seen him posting anywhere outside your forum.
[21:50] *** Signoff: Ninot (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:50] [Arnelos> Ninot does'nt post much period
[21:50] [GhengisDevil> Oops
[21:50] [E_T_Outside_Having_a_Cigarette> Squid this, squid that.... I'm getting sick of squid
[21:50] [GhengisDevil> Yeah, right.
[21:50] [Arnelos> seriously... Ninot doesn't post very much
[21:50] *** Ninot (~dninot@modemcable087.41-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay
[21:50] [Ninot> worm kicked my ass again
[21:50] [GhengisDevil> That's suprising, he used to post all the time
[21:51] [GhengisDevil> Speak of the devil.
[21:51] [Ninot> whos that?
[21:51] [Arnelos> you
[21:51] [GoW_Panzer32> you
[21:51] [Ninot> oh hi
[21:51] *** GhengisDevil is now known as GhengisFarb
[21:51] [Ninot> whos talkin bout me?
[21:51] [Arnelos> Ghengis asked whether you posted a ton in the RP forum since you don't post elsewhere much
[21:51] [GoW_Panzer32> noone
[21:51] [Ninot> i wield a mighty tuna fish
[21:51] [Arnelos> I said you actually don't post much
[21:51] [GhengisFarb> you now have to change your nick to Ninot Devil
[21:51] *** Ninot is now known as NinotDevil
[21:51] [NinotDevil> damnit
[21:52] [GhengisFarb> Until you get an excuse to say "speak of the devil"
[21:52] [NinotDevil> ahhhh
[21:52] [GhengisFarb> notyoueither passed it to me.
[21:52] [Arnelos> the most avid RP poster by far is History Guy... maybe a full 1/3 of our forum are his posts alone
[21:52] [adaMada>
[21:53] [Arnelos> or maybe it just seems that way because his posts are so LONG due to all of the RP
[21:53] [NinotDevil> and he puts in LONG posts
[21:53] [NinotDevil> the guys an RP fanatic
[21:53] [adaMada>
[21:53] [GhengisFarb> Wow, I thought all of his posts were those long historical epics.
[21:53] [NinotDevil> ....yeah....
[21:53] [Arnelos> among other things
[21:53] [Arnelos> he's also our ambassador I think to ND
[21:53] [mrmitchell> eh. the Mitchell-Calamari feud has died down a bit
[21:53] [GhengisFarb> I'm suprised he hasn't put them to sleep
[21:53] [NinotDevil> goddamn squid pukes
[21:54] [NinotDevil> lol Ghengis
[21:54] [Arnelos> he very well might have...
[21:54] [GhengisFarb> No memos to Roleplay, that boring guy might reply to us.........
[21:54] [mrmitchell> NYE is in the #apolyton
[21:55] [GhengisFarb> It may take ND a week to translate his pms.
[21:55] [GoW_Panzer32> lol
[21:55] [adaMada> I'd laugh except I can't talk
[21:55] [adaMada> lol
[21:56] [GhengisFarb> i don't know, borc sends me some lengthy stuff, and some of my stuff is pretty long.
[21:56] *** notyoueither (notyoueith@h24-86-76-127.ed.shawcable.net) has joined channel #gow-roleplay
[21:56] [E_T_Outside_Having_a_Cigarette> back, ah nicoteen
[21:56] [GoW_Panzer32> hi NYE
[21:56] [GhengisFarb> Quick Ninot
[21:56] [notyoueither> hello
[21:56] [E_T_Outside_Having_a_Cigarette> NYE, how are you?
[21:56] [NinotDevil> speak of the devil!!!
[21:56] [mrmitchell> ahh...cancer stick
[21:56] [mrmitchell> :P
[21:56] [GhengisFarb> Yea!
[21:56] [adaMada> Ninot gotcha there
[21:56] [adaMada> lol
[21:56] [notyoueither> pretty good. how are all you?
[21:56] *** E_T_Outside_Having_a_Cigarette is now known as E_T
[21:56] [mrmitchell> I even informed him practically in #apolyton
[21:56] [GhengisFarb> Now notyoueither has to add devil to his name.
[21:56] [NinotDevil>
[21:57] [GhengisFarb> Ninot is free!
[21:57] [notyoueither> ahh, i see the name of the game
[21:57] [Arnelos> Whenever we mention someone, they come into the chatroom
[21:57] [GhengisFarb> I've been GhengisDevil for 3 hours.
[21:57] [Arnelos> Well, I'm going to talk about BORC....
[21:57] [GoW_Panzer32> ummm... Markos
[21:57] [GoW_Panzer32> waiting...
[21:57] [adaMada> lol
[21:57] [GoW_Panzer32>
[21:57] [mrmitchell> Markos Giannapoulos is a nice guy.
[21:57] [Arnelos> Markos is great
[21:57] [mrmitchell> So's Daniel Quick.
[21:57] [Arnelos> ....waits for MarkG to come in....
[21:57] [GhengisFarb> Borc and be had a long private chat on this forum yesterday
[21:57] [GhengisFarb> me

NOTE: AFTER THIS POINT, THERE IS NO MENTION OF ANY PTW STUFF -- ALL SPAM

[Hot Mustard]

Warning: I'm not on our diplomatic team, so I don't sugar coat my words.

From what I understand this is the situation:

GoW locked ND and Lux in very constrictive trade agreements for Horseback Riding. These agreements say something like "if Lux/ND trades HBR to the RP team, we have reason to go to war with Lux/ND". They may also say that they have reason to go to war with us, but the most we got them to say is that it is a "gray area" and that it could be inferred that they might go to war with us in such a situation.

To me, this agreement is an affront and goes beyond their normal arrogance. Regardless of whether it is a "gray area", they are saying they may be prepared to go to war with us, if Lux breaks their agreement. This is preposterous. Lux breaks an agreement, and GoW declares war on us?!? To cover their butts some, they are informing us of this agreement, no doubt so they can say, "Hey, we warned you. You made the trade knowing the potential consequences, so are a partner in conspiring to break the agreement."

It sounds like GoW is trying to become the tech middle man on our continent, which they seem to effectively be already up north, due to the poor relations between ND and Lux. They want us involved in the trading, but only through them. Specifically, it sounds like they badly want Writing. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to shove the same type of agreement down our throat too, so that they reap the rewards of trading Writing to ND and Lux.

But most alarming to me is that some of us seem prepared to give GoW what they want! Tonight I heard people say things like, "It's our fault.", "We owe GoW.", "Togas overreacted." Excuse me, but what horsesh*t is this?!? Yes, but some accounts, Togas may have overreacted in diplomatic channels. So what? What are we at fault for? For getting emotional? C'mon people - GhengisFarb is one of the biggest hotheads around - do you think for a minute that he would give anyone concessions because he ranted about something? Fat chance. GoW came to us with the their ND/Lux trade details so that we would feel compelled to trade with them only, with the thinly veiled threat of war looming over our heads. By doing so, they proved to us that Lux is lying. But why should that make us feel indebted to GoW? They did so out of their own self-interest, not for our good. But confirming Lux had made an offer to us, we also did GoW a favour, providing proof that the agreement had been broken. (In the agreement, Lux is not even allowed make offers.)

Now many are preparing trade details to give them Writing and rebuff Lux's trade offer. Regardless of who lied to who, who has trade agreements with who, etc - our prime concern should be the betterment of Spain. Are we going to wave tech-whoring rights to Writing because GoW has (surprisingly) accomplished some successful blustering?

Lastly, I would like us to re-evaluate what we think Writing is worth. It is the key to 6 more techs in this age. It is the key to two wonders, one of them being the Great Library, which will be a decisive edge for whoever finishes it. It is worth far more than the amounts discussed so far. Keep in mind - GoW wants to give us Horseback Riding. They are so desperate to give it to us that they are prepared to gift it and wait for Writing. Why? They want to hold onto their precious middle-man position and keep us from trading with others. We should also consider what the worth is of their warriors departing. With Writing in 4, Map Making and maps trades are possibly only 20 turns or so away.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority here, I just hope that my points might give our diplomats a different perspective. Regardless of the petty goings-on, Spain has the right to stand up for itself, as opposed to lying down for China.

[Arnelos]

dejon...

For what it's worth, I argued a similar perspective in our internal chat.

I agree with the others that it's risky to do so, but I have NO PROBLEM with obtaining Horseback Riding from Lux and Mathematics from ND in return for Writing while taking the 100 gold from GoW for it. Then, I have no problem trading around Mysticism and messing up their entire system.

Ultimately, we should try to REPLACE Glory of War as the tech middle-man. We should try to end this silly conflict between ND and Lux Invicta and convince them that GoW is the common threat.

But hey... I agree that GoW is willing to practically sell us their own firstborn son to make the Writing for Horseback Riding deal... it MIGHT be worth just ripping them off and then working to replace them as tech middle-man ANYWAYS

Make no mistake: Glory of War is the enemy. We might be able to potentially get along with them for now, but they remain the enemy.

[ThePlagueRat]

Dejon... Don't let the warmongers scare you. Please, they are only flexin' their weak little muscle. Nothing to worry about...


There is no reason for them to attack us now, whomever we choose trade with. They are just being cocky and pretending they can beat up anyone already.
Well, they can't... So instead they are plotting, and we only need to not step into their silly little tech-plot. We can make our own plots!

Did they really manage to scare the Lux into an agreement?
Not very likely... and that might be Lux's plot.

[E_T]

After the GoW Chat, Togas was able to get the Posibility that Lux has been in contact with Vox. He then later comfirmed it with Vox.

We were unable to find out if Lux has contact with GS or not.

E_T

[adaMada]

E_T,
Thanks for fixing it all up . You rock .

The thing about GoW declaring war on us if we trade with Lux is absurd, and I'm confident that they won't follow through on it. They pointed out that they could, but there's no way that they will -- period.

To be fair to GoW, however, they probably didn't lock Lux and/or ND into a very restrictive deal -- they just asked that they not retrade the tech. We've done that several times too, and it's nothing that abnormal. (As far as we know, the deal doesn't actually SAY they declare war -- but breaking the agreement is grounds for war in GoW's mind). I doubt they would have specifically indicated that they could not trade to us, though I guess it's possible. Either way, I see no reason to assume the worst on the whole issue.

Dejon,
I don't feel the issue is about 'owing' GoW. I do feel that we NEED to establish a better relationship with them. Right now, we're writing them off as useful -- which is just stupid, in my opinion. For now, it's best for ALL of us if we cooperate, and having a bad diplomatic relationship with GoW won't help that. As for Writing, I understand what you're saying, but we already did say we'd give it to them for 100 gold. We can hold out and ONLY accept 100 gold and warrior withdrawing, but if we want to have ANY usable relationship with GoW in the future, asking for more might not be an option :-\. I'm not saying you don't have a good point, but I feel that going back on what we've said now would be a diplomatic disaster when we're on the verge of repairing our battered relationship with GoW. I don't feel we need to make stuff up to them, but I do feel that we should be very careful to keep the deals we make with them.

As for waving Tech Whoring rights on Writing, I AM pretty sure we could get GoW to agree to not trading Writing any further. That's fair, and I think they'd expect it -- the fact we didn't discuss it last night was an oversight, and the way that they're pressing Lux and ND on the issue means that we shouldn't have much trouble.

On the worth of their warriors departing -- we've been asking for it so long, we've little choice but to kick 'em out. We can't just drop it as a non-issue now we're in this situation :-/.

Finally, I do respect what you're saying. Minority or Majority, you make some very good points, and I think you're right about more than a few of em . My biggest problem is that I think we're hurting ourselves by NOT having diplomatic contact with GoW, and we really need to stick to our word for right now if we expect to have a fruitful relationship. In the future, once we've established a solid base, we probably will be able to turn around and change the deal up, but coming off this long conflict, I think it'd be asking for diplomatic trouble to do so .

Arnelos,
I think WE should be the middle man. If we can get the other civs around us to see us as the only solid, trustable source (rememebering that Lux and ND are in conflict and GoW now know's that Lux is screwing them over), then we can get very rich by taking GoW's position. Personally, however, I wouldn't suggest anything as overt as 'outsting' them -- I'd rather establish a good relationship with them as well as the other teams now and then slowly ease ourselves into the position.

I agree that GoW's obviously an enemy -- but I DON'T believe they're any more of an enemy than other groups. Lux has proved equally willing to lie, and GoW (to their credit) have yet to fail to honor an agreement they've made (even if we don't like the agreements), while it seems that Lux is screwing everyone over. I'm not saying that we should see GoW as a friend -- but I think we need to consider them on the same level as Lux, if nothing else. As far as political stability's concerned, Lux could be more dangerous if we continue to trust them. We've taken Lux's word over GoW several times, and I'm starting to feel that it was probably a mistake, even if GoW was lying. Anyway, my point is that yes, GoW's an enemy -- but GoW (right now) is no more dangerous than Lux, or even perhaps ND (who is steadily scouting our territory AND apparently has told GoW that we have a great deal of land to our south).

I'm not trying to come off as ultra pro-GoW, but I do think that we've been rejecting EVERY potential GoW deal without any thought, and that it's a mistake to continue to do so.

-- adaMada

[Hot Mustard]

adaMada, I appreciate your words.

We do have a diplomatic relationship with GoW. It may be a rocky one, but with their outlook, I don't see how it could be otherwise. It is a waste of time to try to "play nice" with GoW - they will always be this way, regardless of what we give them or how we treat them. We have not been hurt by the stressed relations either, as we have not been in a position to trade with them to this point.

Regarding their proposals, they are just that - proposals. No deal has been accepted by both parties yet - we are in negotiation. While I agree that it is bad form to change our wishes all the time during negotiations, it is a part of the process, and we would be foolish to lock ourselves into the first deal we or they proposed. I'm reminded again of my proposed trade format, where the ideas flow back and forth in clear terms, until both sides agree and accept.

I agree that GoW deserves no more suspiscion that Lux and ND at this point in time. It is too early to wage war, and our prime concern with each should be how their current relations, trades, strategies, etc will affect our own.

PlagueRat - I not scared of GoW - I'm concerned that some of our team member's desires to "fix" relations with GoW will result in GoW seeing us as pushovers, and possibly in an unfavourable trade for us. As I said above - relations with the Warmongers will likely always be like this - we shouldn't get worked up about it.

[OliverFA]

Glory of War always creating problems. Uh? Have you noticed that all the clashes in foreign affairs we've had up to the date are always related at least indirectly with GoW?

The diplomatic minds of the team have already analized this and got far better conclusions than a slave master, dedicated to internal affairs, can get. So I will only add a few words as a sugestion for the diplomatics in change of handling these matters:

Of course, it's better to keep peace with them. Not to trust them, but keep them happy if it's not too expensive. But I would not begin paying them for peace in the form of advantageous tech exchanges or wathever. Don't let them abuse us! If I'm not wrong the militar advisor says our military is equivalent, so we are not in a desesperate situation that need giving GoW a lot of things to pay for peace.

Even more important, this issue proves that Spain must build a maintain a big army. Not to conquer our neighbours but to disuade them from trying to conquest part of all our lands.