Extensive Analysis of Madrid Build Options...

[pikesfan]

You know, I didn’t understand one word of those plans so I voted for temples to give us more culture and make our boundaries expand. We need one in Pamplona, and to build a road to the silk in Barcelona.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by E_T
I'm working on a few spreadsheets that look at these plans. So far, I have found a flaw in Plan C.

I'll try to publish these ASAP

Eta Tamali

I'm sure there's probably a few errors SOMEWHERE. I did this whole thing by hand while I was short on sleep

That said, even given margin for error, I'm sure they're pretty close.

Someone mentioned the shield bonus when pop increases... I havne't noticed it in Madrid so far, but I could have missed it.... (is that an Industrious thing?)

[Thud]

Impressive, Arnelos. Truly. I'm sorta glad that you aren't Prez in the SPDG.

Hmmm... as originally stated, I still support B. (how's that for a "secret, undisclosed" redundancy) I, personally, don't mind a longer wait for a settler, so D wouldn't be so bad either.

[E_T]

Originally posted by Arnelos
Someone mentioned the shield bonus when pop increases... I havne't noticed it in Madrid so far, but I could have missed it.... (is that an Industrious thing?)

Yes, Size 7-12, 1 additional Sheild. Size 13+, 2 additional shields.

We get the added Trade bonus...

Eta Tamali

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by E_T


Yes, Size 7-12, 1 additional Sheild. Size 13+, 2 additional shields.

We get the added Trade bonus...

Eta Tamali

That's what I thought.

[ruby_maser]

From my scenarios I ran I noticed Madrid is getting a 2-shield bonus every time its population increases now. I don't know why this is, and I've never noticed it before. The capital seems to be the only city so lucky, but I am fairly sure you can count on another 2 shields beyond what the city is currently producing on each turn it's pop increases.

And we are not Industrious so you've got me as to why it happens, but I like it.

[ruby_maser]

I found an example. Señor Dejon's Turn Log is on the 3rd page back.

In the screenshots for 3600 BC, Madrid is just start to produce a Warrior (no shields at all that turn in the queue but 3 per turn for the city)

3550 BC is lost to public record. Togas did that turn, but we still know that Warrior has 3 shields in the queue's box.

3500 BC screenshot show that the queue was switched to settler. However, instead of there being 6 shields in the queue's box, there are 8. The city started to work the wheat tile so it was still producing only 3 shields a turn, but 5 were added.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by ruby_maser
I found an example. Señor Dejon's Turn Log is on the 3rd page back.

In the screenshots for 3600 BC, Madrid is just start to produce a Warrior (no shields at all that turn in the queue but 3 per turn for the city)

3550 BC is lost to public record. Togas did that turn, but we still know that Warrior has 3 shields in the queue's box.

3500 BC screenshot show that the queue was switched to settler. However, instead of there being 6 shields in the queue's box, there are 8. The city started to work the wheat tile so it was still producing only 3 shields a turn, but 5 were added.

huh... no clue why that's happening if it is...

I'll have to watch Madrid over the next few turns and if this is true, I'll change my plans to accomodate it.

Sounds like a bug.

[E_T]

I have a New Plan

Build the Worker First then the Granary 2nd. Have the worker move to the forrest at tile #14 and chop it down (2 turns to move, 10 to chop), it will add the 10 Shields to the Granery build. Plus, we also need that forrest cit, to bring Water to Barcelona for it's growth (we don't want to cut down the Game tile).

I'll provide specific here shortly, but we can have our cake and eat it too.

Eta Tamali

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by E_T
I have a New Plan

Build the Worker First then the Granary 2nd. Have the worker move to the forrest at tile #14 and chop it down (2 turns to move, 10 to chop), it will add the 10 Shields to the Granery build. Plus, we also need that forrest cit, to bring Water to Barcelona for it's growth (we don't want to cut down the Game tile).

I'll provide specific here shortly, but we can have our cake and eat it too.

Eta Tamali

Good. I'd work on that myself, but I think I'll let you do this one for me

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by E_T
Build the Worker First then the Granary 2nd. Have the worker move to the forrest at tile #14 and chop it down (2 turns to move, 10 to chop), it will add the 10 Shields to the Granery build. Plus, we also need that forrest cit, to bring Water to Barcelona for it's growth (we don't want to cut down the Game tile).

You might also think of getting the forest directly SW of the city cut down so you can irrigate the cow bonus eventually. That's another 10 shields for something... depending on when it is done.

[E_T]

Worker Plan #1

This plan uses a specialist for 3 turns in 20 turns from now.

Turn 0 (now-last save): Foodbox (FB): 8; WF 3-5; Food Surplus (FS): 2; Trade (T): 5; Shields Accumulated (SA): 0; Sheild Output (SO): 5
Currently building Temple as a place holder

Turn 1 (next save) - Change build to worker
WF 3-5; FB: 10; FS: 2; SA: 5; SO: 5; T: 5

Turn 2 - Worker built, start on Granary - Move Worker to Tile #14 (2 turns to get there)
WF 20; FB=12; FS=4; SA=0; SO=1; T=4

Turn 3: WF 20; FB=16; FS=4; SA=1; SO=1; T=4

Turn 4 (size 2): WF 3-20; FB=0; FS=4; SA=2; SO=3; T=5
Worker starts to cut the Forrest at Tile #14, 10 turns to complete.

Turn 5: WF 3-20; FB=4; FS=4; SA=5; SO=3; T=5

Same for turns 6 to 8.

Turn 9 (size 3): WF 3-5-20; FB=0; FS=4; SA=17; SO=5; T=6

Same for turns 10 to 13

Turn 14 (size 4): WF 3-4-5-18; FB=0; FS=1; SA=42+10(forrest); SO=8; T=7
The Worker completes cutting of the Forrest, which give Madrid 10 more sheilds. It can now start Irrigating, to start the irrigation that will go to Barcelona (that is if the Slavemaster wants that). Will also require Lux Tax, until the Spearman is built.

Turn 15 (Granary built, Spearman next): WF 3-4-5-20; FB=1; FS=3; SA=0; SO=7; T=7

Turn 17: WF 3-5-18-20; FB=7; FS=4; SA=14; SO=6; T=7

Turn 18 (Spearman built, Settler next): WF 3-5-18-20; FB=11; FS=4; SA=0; SO=6; T=7
The Lux Tax can now be removed.



I'm having problems with this box for the moment and I'll finish this as soon as I reboot, but the city will increase to size 5 and the settler will be built in 5 turns. This plan also calls for one more Spear/settler pair, before it build a temple and maybe a barracks. Afterwards, it will be building Vet Spear in 2 turns time.

I'll try to post the spreadsheet, but The Coreldraw is on the other Box. I'll also send this sheet to Arnelos, but that will also have to wait until after 5PM.

[EDIT]
I've got the chart up, here it is.



I'll edit some more to this in a bit.




Eta Tamali

[Crousto]

Originally posted by ruby_maser
From my scenarios I ran I noticed Madrid is getting a 2-shield bonus every time its population increases now. I don't know why this is, and I've never noticed it before.

Maybe the game computes the population increasing before computing the production, so the extra population already works a new tile. However it doesn't explain why only the capital city gets this bonus

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by Crousto
Maybe the game computes the population increasing before computing the production, so the extra population already works a new tile. However it doesn't explain why only the capital city gets this bonus

Senor Crousto, in the example I gave, the new tile that was being worked did not produce any shields, only food and commerce. Therefore, the shields added to queue should have remained the same 3 per turn that were being produced before the population increase. Interestingly, it reverted back to 3 per turn after the one turn of yielding 5. This is not an isolated incident for Madrid, it has been happening ever time the pop. increased since the game began.

[Arnelos]

As I said... the only way we're going to know for sure is to watch Madrid closely. If the next time the pop goes up we get 2 shields mysteriously out of nowhere, I'll make a note of it on the public forums as well as in here... it's possible that what happened was that someone accidentally turned on double-production on a turn somewhere back and no-one noticed. It's a bug.