Wondering about Wonders

[Arnelos]

astrologix,

If that's what the 'pedia says, it's clearly wrong...

I have frequently received my GA from a single wonder (as Togas reports). It is also the case that build 2 wonders that together cover both your civ traits ALWAYS causes your GA if you haven't already had one.

[Hot Mustard]

Lots of good input, everyone.

My 2c

Colossus : Obviously only if we have a strong coastal city, but even then, I consider this to be a fall-back wonder if we get beat to something else. Especially considering we're already a commercial civ.

Pyramids : I believe this has the potential to give its owner a major advantage in this game (with no AI). All the teams are on equal REX footing (ignoring civ charastics), and this would give a possible crucial edge to one civ.

Oracle: Same as Colossus, except we're already religious.

Great Library : I be shocked if this wasn't on the GoW agenda, and as such, it would be strategic to deny them it. However, as someone above commented, I'm not convinced this will be as beneficial in a no AI game.

Great Lighthouse : Umm, nah. Sorry, it's never blown my socks off.

The Great Wall : Good fallback to Great Library. We may not need it if we put all our cities on hills.

Once we see our surroundings at bit, we'll have a better idea of what we're best suited for. If we discover a really sweet second city location, I'd be in favour of essentially treating it like our new starting point, and leaving production happy Madrid to build the Pyramids.

Order of preference: Pyramids, Library, Wall, the rest.

[Nuclear Winter]

Great reasearch, dejon!
Also, great research, plaguerat!
I was thinking a little about this topic, and Great library and great wall seem to be some of the most usefull wonders we can get. Although they will be highly disputed , we have a city on hills, and that is up to our advantage...
Great wall may proove to be the greatest thing if we end up bordering GoW or LUx, or even Vox ( I talk more on my impressions on them on another topic...) Also, if GoW tries an early rush (probbly over a nearby AI), they may very easily come to loose the Library Run.
We should beeline to G. library, maybe get pyramids if we have the chance, and set our Golden Age with sistine latter on...

[ruby_maser]

If we have any preference for the Great Wall, we may need to consider talking it over with Legoland soon. I'm fairly sure that is what they are going for. Not necessarily let on to what we think are their plans but ask questions that might help to verify their intentions. [edit: And knowing this and the lengths they are willing to go to get what they want might allow us to set up another deal like our original pact, where we promise not to try for the Great Wall in exchange for "X".]

It may be that they only want to get access to city walls by having Masonry immediately, but my earlier post on the matter might suggest they may be trying for a longer view.

I'm not sure to what length we want to go to help them or hurt them. If we intend to play nice for a while, coordinating and co-operating might be best to maximize the benefits of the relationship.

el_ruby_maser

[E_T]

I think that Legoland going for the GW really fits in with their overall stratigy of surviving through the Anchant and Middle ages, while they build up a huge research base.

Also, do not discount the Hanging Gardens, It would allow for any civ to have a very productive city base for quite a while and allow them to quickly switch to Republic without having to worry about the happiness issues that would be present.

It all depends on the actual map and who we find. We might have 1/2 of the Nations on anouther Contenant and would be Isolated until we are able to send out Galleys to search for them. If that is so, we would be better off going with the Lighthouse and maybe Pyramids. If we are mostly or all on the same contenant, we should go for GL ASAP.

If anything, we need to try to get Librairies as soon as possible, to get our own research engine started. But we need to have defenses too.

E_T

[astrologix]

[OOC]

Togas & Arnelos,

I've played a game at Chieftain level and Accelerated production to test the effects of the Colossus and The Lighthouse.

You are right, The Colossus causes the GA for Spain (I guess this is a bug on the settings of this Wonder).
I've rollebacked the game, and changed the production of Madrid to the construction of The Lighthouse, and the result is
that The Lighthouse DON'T TRIGGER the GA.

Thus, I think that The Ligthhouse should be our goal if we can confirm that we are in an island or in a small continent, or if
we find evidences that there are good possibilities to find others civs over the seas.
As shown in my precedent post, the path to Map Making is relatively easy for us (I missed Pottery in the path, but this technology
is easy to obtain). This path has some advantages : Writing will allow to make treaties and embassies with other civs and Map Making allows to trade maps.
For our commercial civ, it makes sense to pursue those technologies ASAP.

Otherwise, if we could obtain the related techs with other civs, we could try to build The Pyramids (it won't trigger the GA, I've got evidence of this) or The Great Library instead of the Lighthouse.

As yet said in other posts, The Great Wall is mainly interesting for Legoland (we should let them to build this Wonder !) and the utility of The Hanging Gardens or the Oracle seems minor.

Now, it's important to know that, if we get the Lighthouse or the Pyramids in the Ancient Age, we'll trigger our GA if we get Bach or Sistine later ! But I think it's worth to have one of those Middle Age Wonders, even if it causes our GA before we have our UU.

[Togas]

We know, Out of Character, what the best wonders are. We will have to decide In Character what wonders we want to pursue depending on what our characters feel and where the storyline takes us.

When the time comes, Let's see what is said about each of the Wonder possibilities.

--Togas

[OliverFA]

Just my two cents about this issue:

IMHO I don't think that Glory of War will go for the Great Library. They will probably get their techs from the civs they fight in exchange for peace.

[History Guy]

I think that these should be our priorities:

1) The Great Lighthouse
2) The Colossus
3) The Great Library

[GodKing]

Lighthouse is only important on some maps. We don't knwo yet if it is important to us...... but when we do so will probably everybody else.

I love the pyramids. So do most people. It will be a race to get it, but worth it. The risk is in the possibility of setting off an early GA. Therefore, I would put it in the second highest catagory, but towards the top.

Colosus - Early GA. Only usefull if we are desperate. As we are awsome, that will never happen, so we should offer someone else the opportunity to build it in return for some favor to us...... I will present it so to Gathering Stromboli, who I am diplo for. I suggest others take this same approach...."we will let you build the colosus if you let us build such and such...." this is easy to check on also as we know which civs are building what wonders.

Great Wall. We need to do a lot of research before we can build it. It will be highly usefull to us however. Place it just after pyrimids, as this does expire and pyrimids don't.

Library. originally, I felt this one would be our saving grace. Now, however, I don't think so. I think we will be either #1 or #2 in research (with legoland), and will probably not get any use from this wonder. However, keeping it from someone else has large benifits as well that we must not forget. If we want to stay at the top of the research ladder, best to not just hand away free techs every now and then.

Hanging gardens - I don;t expect us to go for monarchy, so we will probably never have the chance to built this until to late. That said, I don;t care that much because it is limited and a possible GA starter combined with the wall or pyrimids (IIRC). Avoid it, and use it like the colosis.

Orical - pretty much the same as for the hanging gardens, except I suspect we will have the opportunity, just not the desire.

In summery

• lighthouse - as appropriate
  Library
  Pyrimids
  wall
  nothing else as it just wastes our resources

All is IMHO of course.

GK

[ThePlagueRat]

Godking, are you supposed to make a wonder-deal with them, before we have met them in-game?
Just wondering.