Strategy

[DAVOUT]

I suggest that, before starting discussion on strategy, everybody reads the two following threads :

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1445174#post1445174

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1445158#post1445158

[Ninot]

So, which thread should we be taking more into account?

personally, I dont think the first thread applies very well. It talks about crippleing AI's, not Humans. Civs like Glory of War, Trip's side, and probably NYE's side will all be ready for early rushes. The builders will also probably have propper defenses.

I think we must first look at our starting position and surroundings. After that, we may devise something devious. But i highly doubt an archer rush will work as well as it served us in the C3DG

[GodKing]

Remember, we can make peace and war much easier with the other human civs than with the AI's........

[Ninot]

i doubt making war is easier with humans.


humans are more likely to put up an intelligent fight... or to prepare for one.

I think another mindset is neccesary, than to build X archers and spearmen... stack, and attack.

[DAVOUT]

I mentionned Sir Ralph thread because he will be playing against us. We have seen in the demo game how effective was the archer rush. We cannot refuse to contemplate, unless we find ourselves completely isolated, that his team will adopt a strategy including a rush. Wether this rush is directed against an AI or a human (even against us), it opens immense risks ans opportunities we must think about.

[Ninot]

i think the key to defeating the archer rush is not letting it reach our cities

we must harras it, kill off whatever defenses it has, and take a bite out of the archers.

I agree. The whole thing is that the stack of archers is conceived to assault our cities before we have build enough units AND roads. And if we anticipate in building enough units, that will slow our expansion if we go to far in this direction. The question is : what kind of forces are we supposed to build in addition to those we would have normally build without the threat of a rush by a human opponent.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by GodKing
Remember, we can make peace and war much easier with the other human civs than with the AI's........

Do you say that from experience ?

[Togas]

We should, therefore, collect the wisdom of the tribe and begin to consider how to approach both our human and AI opponents. A few thoughts come to mind.

First, I am still exploring the new AI and new units of PTW. Things have changed somewhat as my old tactics do not fare as well in PTW as they did in CivIII. The AI gets out of REX mode sooner and mixes up expansion with combat units so that you need a larger force than usual in early warfare.

Second, the AI seems to mass units better in PTW. I've watched them mass for 4-5 turns outside my border, THEN come marching in for an attack. Luckily, this new tactic gives one time to do the same to respond. A human opponent will be smart enough to mass outside of your field of vision ... which might make building outposts very important.

Third, my friend the Conquistidor, while being a crappy combat unit, can beat on Midevil Infantry and get us a GA at the right time. He and his dog wandered effortlessly into Zulu territory and cut off two of their luxuries and pillaged their only saltpeter, whittling down their tech advantage and crushing their spirits so that my outdated knight armies had a chance of success. Conquisador can also retreat from battle, then next turn move SIX SPACES away to hide and heal and pillage again.

Unfortunately, Conquistador costs the same as knights and is less effective in battle.

--Togas

[OliverFA]

IMHO is a bit too soon to effectively decide which strategy to follow. I believe we can figure it better once we know our starting point and neighbours. If they want to go to war then we will have no choice. If we are relatively isolated we can delay building our army a bit, but not too long!

[F-PRO]

Originally posted by oliverfa
IMHO is a bit too soon to effectively decide which strategy to follow. I believe we can figure it better once we know our starting point and neighbours. If they want to go to war then we will have no choice. If we are relatively isolated we can delay building our army a bit, but not too long!

I completely agree with you. The only general strategy I would recommend is work on a good defence and claim good areas ASAP. But even that recommendation is subject to change when the situation calls for a far better strategy.

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by oliverfa
If we are relatively isolated we can delay building our army a bit, but not too long!

the only group I am hoping for relative isolation from is the Glory of War. Depending on the difficulty, we may have our work cut out for us with the AI and will need the support of other human civs.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by ruby_maser


the only group I am hoping for relative isolation from is the Glory of War. Depending on the difficulty, we may have our work cut out for us with the AI and will need the support of other human civs.

Almost impossible to support a human civ which has not been vassalized first.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by ruby_maser


the only group I am hoping for relative isolation from is the Glory of War. Depending on the difficulty, we may have our work cut out for us with the AI and will need the support of other human civs.

lol, wouldnt it be the funniest if they started on a remote island, and all they can be shamelessly proud of is a decent sized navy?

[jdjdjd]

Just a thought, perhaps we should be thinking this way, let us go on an ealry offensive and strike a blow that others would not expect from us....

I mean look who's on our team:

Ninot - vocally opposed to war in other game
GK - always talked builder as CP
Arnelos & Thud - DIA leadrship and builders
DAVOUT - talks like a builder
me - a know radical and also DIA member

while others have been less pronounced in their style i.e., warmonger v builder, such as adaMada, Togas, astrologix, GenTac , etc, generally a warmonger is very vocally a warmonger, such as Sir Ralph & Trip.

Just a thought, and from us it would be unexpected. So I say builder offensive units ASAP, and spend less on temples and such until later on.

Of course we should look at our position when the game starts, but if its a human civ nearby (other than the Builders), I say think first strike. Of course they'll be pissed at us and want revenge, but at least we get the first punch in

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Ninot


I agree. The whole thing is that the stack of archers is conceived to assault our cities before we have build enough units AND roads. And if we anticipate in building enough units, that will slow our expansion if we go to far in this direction. The question is : what kind of forces are we supposed to build in addition to those we would have normally build without the threat of a rush by a human opponent.

This makes Carthage an attractive choice.

You use the industrious worker(s) to build roads between cities and make sure to have a mobile stack of Numidian Mercs to send to the hotspot where an archer stack is going to attack...

Archer stack -vs- Numidian Merc stack fortified in town = We Win