Discussion on our Civ Choice

[Togas]

I love GK's proposal but I can't imagine the builders accepting it.

We may be able to get them to accept a watered down version of it.

What we need is a "friend" of the Builders to make contact with them, shmooze a bit, and float the idea that we may have a "compromise" about giving up Carthage. Say that most of our team is not in favor of giving it up without some sort of "agreement" between us.

Who amongst us would like to begin the contact? If no one voluteers I'll do my bit for diplomacy.


Just as a thought ... I think we have the finest Civ Diplomats amongst our membership. This sort of thing is a huge advantage. We should begin our Machiavellian Discussions about how to take over the world immediately.

--Togas

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Togas
I love GK's proposal but I can't imagine the builders accepting it.

We may be able to get them to accept a watered down version of it.

What we need is a "friend" of the Builders to make contact with them, shmooze a bit, and float the idea that we may have a "compromise" about giving up Carthage. Say that most of our team is not in favor of giving it up without some sort of "agreement" between us.

Who amongst us would like to begin the contact? If no one voluteers I'll do my bit for diplomacy.


Just as a thought ... I think we have the finest Civ Diplomats amongst our membership. This sort of thing is a huge advantage. We should begin our Machiavellian Discussions about how to take over the world immediately.

--Togas

I agree in full :b. GodKing's proposal would be great -- but the Builders will never accept it (especially the part about going to war -- they are builders ). Having said that, I would offer myself for any intra-civ negotiations. Looking over the builders team list as per the CivGroups function, I'm afraid I know very few of their players (and none well), but I'd be happy to give it a go anyway. In leu of that, I know some players much better in the other civs, and would volunteer to present deals to whomever, as our great leader Togas sees fit.

-- adaMada

EDIT: I also agree in full with Togas' comment on having the best diplomats of any nation, and believe we would be fools to not take full advantage of diplomacy. With the people we have, we could easily become supreme.

[Crousto]

I like GodKing's idea too, but is this kind of deal 'legal'? Can we setup trades outside the standard diplomatic rules of Civ3, moreover before our civs have met each other in the game?

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Togas
I love GK's proposal but I can't imagine the builders accepting it.

We may be able to get them to accept a watered down version of it.

Just as a thought ... I think we have the finest Civ Diplomats amongst our membership. This sort of thing is a huge advantage. We should begin our Machiavellian Discussions about how to take over the world immediately.

--Togas

Once again, The Great one is right.

Contrary to anyone's beliefs, us roleplayers are NOT God's gift to the game. We can't make outrageous demands, and expect results. And with a peaceful civ like the builders, we should be able to afford a lenient deal, instead of one that makes them impotent.

And as for the scenario of what if they are our neighbor, or far away? Well that can be answered simply by not making a deal that would cause that to matter much.

[Thud]

Originally posted by Ninot
As this forum is confidential, and I can say absolutely anything devious, muwahahahahaa


I say we give away Carthage, but make it sound like we are doing them a favour, and ask something back in return..like a long term aliance against Trip or TTA or Glory.... somethin like that.

muwahahahaha

No, I'm really a spy for Legoland. I won't tolerate deviousness, especially when it pertains to fellow peacenics

Contrary to anyone's beliefs, us roleplayers are NOT God's gift to the game. We can't make outrageous demands, and expect results. And with a peaceful civ like the builders, we should be able to afford a lenient deal, instead of one that makes them impotent.

I voted for giving carthage away because I'm misguided and ignorant. Any questions?

(besides that, I have a better name for my character as spain )


Btw, I am operating under the assumption that I won't have to roleplay, i.e. express myself as "Thud no like, Thud kill", until we actually start the game.

[jdjdjd]

Here's another pitch for the Celts....

[Arnelos]

While I agree that we should make a friend of the builders (it's VERY logical to do - we're THE ONLY TEAM that hasn't already threatened them with annihilation), I don't believe that selling them Carthage is necessary for it.

There's enough MUTUAL INTEREST ALREADY to form a partnership between the builders and ourselves that giving them the civ is pure gravy...

[mrmitchell]

Togas: Could you please note that this poll is a "Majority is 50% + 1 vote" poll? Or whatever majority it is?

What if everything except "Give Carthage to Legoland and play Spain" got 5 votes and Give to Lego and use Spam got 6? (I know due to the membership of the team that is impossible...exept... [I think that's the right emoticon, just kidding ] )

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Arnelos
While I agree that we should make a friend of the builders (it's VERY logical to do - we're THE ONLY TEAM that hasn't already threatened them with annihilation), I don't believe that selling them Carthage is necessary for it.

Well, we have to think how the warmongerers are thinking


will they go with the obvious prey, and destroy the builders? Will they try for a suprise, and try to invade each other or us?

We have to anticipate all of those possibilties

but in anycase, we SHOULD befriend the builders, no matter waht. As long as they dont threaten war, they are good friends in my eyes. We should make that painfully obvious to them. ok, maybe without pain tho.

I dont think Carthage is the best choice for us. I'll say that flat out. Do i think we can make the builders our best friend SOLELY because we will look generous giving it away? Im slightly doubtful, but the odds are better than if we dont.

Im all for "giving" away Carthage.

[GeneralTacticus]

I don't really care either way.

[Ninot]

I just thought of my ultimate decision...

we must pick Spain

cuz then i can make Ninot my family/tribe name

Ninot is a spannish name, dont'chya know?

[Arnelos]

I still prefer Carthage and object to them being "Just a builder civ" - this is simply inane.

However, I'd be happy with Spain.

[GodKing]

On the contract, I set the dates for a reason... we are gambling also. If we miss all the dates, tough for us. That is the selling point of this. A gamble.

There are two things that are not time dependant... favorable trade status, and item 2c, open up a third front.

There are no provisions to enforce this. This is also part of the gamble we take. the only thing we can do is advertise the breaking of the contact. Not that that would do much for them as apparently most of the other teams are going to take them on at one point or another anyways.

Also, and I am surprised nobody has yet pointed this out, there are no provisions from us starting any sort of sneak attack from them at any point. Say we ask for a right of passage, march 20 swordsmen next to their capitol city, then sack it in the year 250 BC. No provisions (except standard Civ3) against that. And that will not matter if the AI civs don't exist any more.

The contract is up for negotiations. I don't know anybody over there that well. But if whoever does make contact (I can if our Boss Dude tells me to) can negotiate saying things such as "look at this risk we are taking... we may not even make contact with your civ until after all the deadlines have expired" and "look, if there are any specific items you cannot accept, let us know and we will see if we can change them..."

I would like to make this "hard but fair (to us)" as I see the voting is moving toward giving them carthage if they will give us something.

[Ninot]

As far as how much we advertise concerning the contract, i think we should keep MOST of it confidential

All we should allow out is that we are graciously allowing them to be Carthage, and MAYBE one thing they are giving back in return

if we release full details, other civs will have an idea of how we can take advantages. we must allow them ignorance.

[GodKing]

I agree Ninot, all of the details we make should be kept between the two civs, preferably with just their leadership.