Discussion on our Civ Choice

[Togas]

People.

We must decide if we will keep Carthage or give it to Legoland and take another Civ. Our concensus backup Civ is Spain.

This thread is for discussion and a vote on that topic.

I'd like all members who previously posted in our old Roleplay thread to post his decision here about if we should graciously hand over Carthage or not.

(also note, you are now allowed to change your mind, if you so choose. I will only count your votes in this thread.)

This vote will be open for 48 hours.

--Togas

[Togas]

Also note: I am going to add up the votes for both of the "give Carthage away" categories to decide what we should do. Keep Carthage must outnumber (or tie) both of the "give Carthage away" categories.

--Togas

[mrmitchell]

Is this poll or Arnelos's poll the one to vote in?

[Ninot]

As this forum is confidential, and I can say absolutely anything devious, muwahahahahaa


I say we give away Carthage, but make it sound like we are doing them a favour, and ask something back in return..like a long term aliance against Trip or TTA or Glory.... somethin like that.

muwahahahaha

[Togas]

I agree with Ninot. If we choose to give away Carthage, I will be very gracious and generous about it. Perhaps we can even front a bit of a pubic "sympathy" towards the builders and tell them that we all believe that Carthage is a pure builder civ and we felt "it wasn't right" for us to play the civ ... that they'd play it much better than us. Etc. etc.

Frankly, I want us to build up postive relations with ALL of the other civs prior to starting this game. We want THEM to fight each other and leave us alone until we're ready to stab one of them in the back.

--Togas

[GodKing]

I voted in the whatever catagory........ because whatever.

Yes, if we give them away, make it a very grandios gesture and see what we can get out of them.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Togas
I agree with Ninot. If we choose to give away Carthage, I will be very gracious and generous about it. Perhaps we can even front a bit of a pubic "sympathy" towards the builders and tell them that we all believe that Carthage is a pure builder civ and we felt "it wasn't right" for us to play the civ ... that they'd play it much better than us. Etc. etc.

Frankly, I want us to build up postive relations with ALL of the other civs prior to starting this game. We want THEM to fight each other and leave us alone until we're ready to stab one of them in the back.

--Togas

Togas is 100% right.
I cant add anything to what the Great One has said.

[OliverFA]

As I said on other thread, I prefer Spain. In fact I don't care too much as long as the civ is religious.

But making some friends from the begining would help. If the Warmongers groups honours their name we (or any civ near them) should expect an early attack, and allies would help, even if their only contribution is not to open a new war front.

[History Guy]

This is all very well and good, though I fear we shall loose Carthage and I shall have to change my name to...Hernan de History Guy Calamari...

My great problem is throwing away a really wonderful unit like a Numidian Mercenary, in essence an Ancient Musketman with no resources, to get a very expensive explorer...

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Togas
I agree with Ninot. If we choose to give away Carthage, I will be very gracious and generous about it. Perhaps we can even front a bit of a pubic "sympathy" towards the builders and tell them that we all believe that Carthage is a pure builder civ and we felt "it wasn't right" for us to play the civ ... that they'd play it much better than us. Etc. etc.

Frankly, I want us to build up postive relations with ALL of the other civs prior to starting this game. We want THEM to fight each other and leave us alone until we're ready to stab one of them in the back.

--Togas

Spoken like a true diplomat .

I won't vote (or will abstain), since I don't have PTW and don't know the advantages of any given civilization, but I would be strongly in support of winning the favor of another civilization (especially one that may take an early science lead, such as the builders).

-- adaMada

[Crousto]

I don't think that a gift to the builders should be considered as a valuable strategic argument. Maybe they'll start on the opposite side of the map, so we can't ally with them pretty soon anyway. The civ choice sounds like something far more crucial to me than pre-game psychology or diplomacy.
War, peace or alliances will be determined by the current status of the various civs, not by little favors made outside the game. If we've decided that Carthage is the best civ for our gameplay style, let's keep it or we might regret it later. Other teams won't be fooled so easily.

[History Guy]

My friend Senator Crousto is absolutely right. The notion that we might well end up beside the Builders, so let's get a good relationship with them now, etc., is flawed. Not only could they well be on the other side of the world, on another continent, etc., but they could also have potentially sort memories.

[GodKing]

Proposed Contract with the Lego Team for sale of the Carthage Civilization:

We will relinquish our control of Carthage for the following:

1. We get our choice of any as yet unclaimed Civ, and you will back us in that choice.
2. Within the game, you will do any one of the following, our choice:
a. Pay us 2,500 gp (1 gpt = 18 gp), to be paid in full by the discovery of invention by any civ.
b. Give us one city of our choice (any except the capitol) with a population of 6 or less (valid up to the year 0).
c. Declare war on a third party of our choice, where we must currently be at war with them (open up a second front). War must last 20 turns, or until we declare peace, whichever is lesser.
d. Give us two techs, of our choice, from the ancient age; or one tech of our choice from the medieval age.
3. During the Game, you will:
a. Treat us as “most favorable” trade partner, including things such as adding world map to various trade deals at no additional cost.
b. Work with us as a partner until the year 1000. In other words, no sneak attacks until after the year 1000.
c. Give us what will amount to a right of passage for explorers/scouts/(warriors), workers, settlers and appropriate guards for those units (not for military units other than those guards) to the year 0.
Grant us a right of passage for any military campaigns (if you wish you may designate a corridor that we must stay in, within reason) that we may currently be involved in, until the year 1000.

[History Guy]

I find Godking's contract within reason as is, and though I hope that we do keep Carthage, I should support this proposal as is if we vote to give it up (sad as that will be). I would not, however, under any circumstances, take anything away from it as it is now in it's current shape. Anything less would be a very cheap thing indeed, for what we are doing for them.

This means one of two things if we do decide on Spain (Heaven forbid).

1) The Builders, as Carthage, will grant us these huge benefits to our civilization, as our best allies.
2) The Builders, seeing this, would scoff our offers, and say "Poop to you. Keep Carthage, for all we care. See if we cry...now, I must go off to the corner with my hanky and blubber..." and simply forget the whole deal.

Of course, if the Builders happen to wind up next door to the warmongers, they well be wiped off the planet before we even get any of these benefits, and we will have given up a great civilization for nothing!

Though I don't like giving up Carthage, I do like Godking's proposal if we have to do so. I strongly suggest that under no circumstances do we change anything, and that we leave it AS IS.

[History Guy]

My only quibble is the mention of the year 1000. What if Carthage winds up on an entirely different continent, and we only find the thing in, say, 1350. In that case, the whole thing is spoiled. I suggest moving it up to the year 1700, or simply not having a year at all.

Though I DO NOT like the idea of giving up Carthage, I do support Godking's proposal if the people vote to give it up. However, 1000 is simply not a good year to have it all set to end on.