280ad (43): Orders, Shots, Discussion

[BigFree]

I have not been able to contact anyone form GS. I would reccomned accepting Education as it leads us closer to Navigation. It does us no harm in accepting it. GS is our life long ally; just because they did not tell us they were sending it as a gift does not mean it was not intended to be one.

[Nuclear Winter]

I´ve called Arrian and he´s busy for a long time to come, but I´ve asked him to post a call for chat on his forum and I´m waiting to see if there is any result;

[Togas]

Attempted to do the save in a brief chat today with BigFree, Arnelos, and History Guy but did not finish before my lunch break was up. BigFree is to play the save after talking to GS (AsleepAtTheWheel was online).

BF, please post results in this thread.

--TOgas

[BigFree]

Ok, GS has requested that we retreat are units for right now. And to wait a few turns before such a manuever. They want to do all turn together from now on, theirs and ours.

I am still talking to GS right now, the turn has yet to be done.

[Togas]

Retreat them out of catapult range to the forest. Bring in a few extra pikes if we believe GoW will attack them during their retreat.

--Togas

[BigFree]

ok

[BigFree]

Here are the results:









Road with El Nino and Duke Aidun
WF in Pamplona switched from Mountain (WF#4 )to Grassland (WF#1). (shields not needed this turn)

New Pike in NM moved towards Pamplona.

All other units moved as Pictures suggest.

[Aidun]

Originally posted by Arnelos
Also, there is a tall stack of ND troops 1 SW of Alamo, along with probably most of GoW's stuff including the captured cats in Alamo itself. I'm thinking that an attack on Alamo right now could be suicidal.

Just As I said before, at my various visist in the commanders tent, I fear that if we attack, Salamanca and manage to free it from its opressors, ND will immediately attack with their stack and occupy it, or ND will attack Pamplona, which is a worse defended because we need fresh defensive troops tio defend the new city.

If we attack we need to do that with support from GS otherwise it is suicide.

Soldier Aidun Cian of the Royal Spanish Army

[BigFree]

I have not sent the save onwards due to reservations by both Aidun and Arnelos as to what I did.

[Arnelos]

MilOps log (for Togas):

BigFree> We are thinking of making a pretty bold move now
asleepathewheel> oh yeah?
BigFree> We want to move a satck of 5 Pikes and 5 MI's to the tile that is 7 of Alamo
asleepathewheel> intriguing. I'm loading the game right now
BigFree> It would force both GoW and ND to commit troops to it
BigFree> we will try to cut the road
BigFree> but its more likely that those troops would be wiped out, but taking some of them wit us
* Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY
BigFree> We were hoping that GS would be able to take advantage of this move by know that soem of their units would be tied up
asleepathewheel> ok, one more second, Theseus emailed us the played game last turn, not the latest one, so my shots will be slightly out of date
asleepathewheel> how many units will you have left in the city?
BigFree> sorry
asleepathewheel> its cool
BigFree> had phone call
asleepathewheel> its hard for me to tell what units we have in position, as my info is slightly dated
BigFree> that will leave 6 pikes 4 Knights 8 Cats and 2 MI's left in Pamplona
asleepathewheel> ok
* opd has joined #MilOps
opd> g'day
asleepathewheel> ah
asleepathewheel> hi
asleepathewheel> ok, I will try to give a short run down of our units in the area
asleepathewheel> we have: barc 4-4-1:
asleepathewheel> 5 Pike
asleepathewheel> 12 Knights
asleepathewheel> 5 MedInf
asleepathewheel> 1 Cat
asleepathewheel> 3 Workers
asleepathewheel> so it doesn't look like we can reach much next turn with those 12 knights
BigFree> damn
BigFree> ok
* opd has quit IRC (Quit: )
asleepathewheel> we also have 2 knights around meridia
asleepathewheel> (not sure where those got to
asleepathewheel> I meant murcia on that last part
asleepathewheel> hmm
asleepathewheel> what to do
asleepathewheel> I'm not quite sure
BigFree> Togas is playing the save now
asleepathewheel> if you move this turn, then they can take the stack, because we can't reach there soon
BigFree> I would count on him doing what I said
asleepathewheel> ah, ok
asleepathewheel> so is the plan for us to move to alamo, or take meridia?
BigFree> Well, we were justhoping tooprovide cover for you whiile you did what you needed to do
BigFree> I would count on him doing what I said
asleepathewheel> ah, ok
asleepathewheel> so is the plan for us to move to alamo, or take meridia?
BigFree> Well, we were justhoping tooprovide cover for you whiile you did what you needed to do
BigFree> plus we wanted to cut the Ivory
asleepathewheel> I see. hmm. I am pretty rushed right now (wife will be home any minute) hence why I'm a bit scattered
BigFree> Since they were pummeling us with those Cats you lost to GoW we figured we needed to move now
* opd has joined #MilOps
opd> allo again
opd> sorry about that
BigFree> np
asleepathewheel> ah, can you stay on this time opd? I have to leave very soon
asleepathewheel> I will post in our forum what has been said thus far.
BigFree> ok
opd> yeah I can stay
BigFree> [13:45] * opd (~dwyerowen@82-36-92-149.cable.ubr04.harb.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Quit: )
BigFree> [13:45] asleepathewheel> we also have 2 knights around meridia
BigFree> [13:46] asleepathewheel> (not sure where those got to
BigFree> [13:46] asleepathewheel> I meant murcia on that last part
BigFree> [13:47] asleepathewheel> hmm
BigFree> [13:47] asleepathewheel> what to do
BigFree> [13:48] asleepathewheel> I'm not quite sure
BigFree> [13:49] BigFree> Togas is playing the save now
BigFree> [13:49] asleepathewheel> if you move this turn, then they can take the stack, because we can't reach there soon
BigFree> [13:49] BigFree> I would count on him doing what I said
BigFree> [13:49] asleepathewheel> ah, ok
BigFree> [13:49] asleepathewheel> so is the plan for us to move to alamo, or take meridia?
BigFree> [13:50] BigFree> Well, we were justhoping tooprovide cover for you whiile you did what you needed to do
BigFree> [13:50] BigFree> plus we wanted to cut the Ivory
BigFree> [13:51] asleepathewheel> I see. hmm. I am pretty rushed right now (wife will be home any minute) hence why I'm a bit scattered
BigFree> [13:51] BigFree> Since they were pummeling us with those Cats you lost to GoW we figured we needed to move now
BigFree> just what you missed OPD
asleepathewheel> ah great
opd> cheers
asleepathewheel> I apparently have no idea how to do that
asleepathewheel> anywya
BigFree> I was also wondering if GS could build a new bas of operations North of NM
asleepathewheel> I see the urgency to move now
opd> yeah you could do with moving out
asleepathewheel> new base where?
BigFree> If you gave us Sirocco, we could use more tiles for Barcelona
BigFree> I was thinkg that 9-9-9 of NM would be good; we'd need another road though
asleepathewheel> true, it might increase our turn around time for unit transport.
asleepathewheel> esp. if we are shipping units south
BigFree> yes
opd> how badly do you need the tiles for barc
asleepathewheel> I will post to our forum (pretty dead there lately)
opd> wait hmmn
BigFree> Barc would be able t use the tile 8-9 of itself
asleepathewheel> I don't see sirroco and barc overlapping, am I wrong or are you thinking of New Madrid
opd> you mean NM?
* Arnelos_AWAY is now known as Arnelos
opd> Re-baseing would be a pain in the ass
opd> North of NM would defeat the purpose without roads through the jungle
asleepathewheel> yes
BigFree> It also has the effect of us having another unit pruducing city that can shre tiles with NM
BigFree> Roads would definetle have to come first
asleepathewheel> we could shift the workers in Sir to the coast, that would give you another irrigated plain
asleepathewheel> sir is on hill, not sure you would get that much produciont out of that square for a while, with one worker in the area
opd> what are your plans regarding the troops next to the Alamo?
BigFree> I have to reboot
BigFree> we plan to move them all 1
BigFree> then try to cut the raod
BigFree> brbr
* BigFree has quit IRC (Quit: )
opd> Moving them 1????
asleepathewheel> I think he means adjacenet to alamo?
opd> But they'll just get hit with cats untill they're all redlined?
asleepathewheel> yes, basically Vox revisted
asleepathewheel> I think the notion is to move them in, have the enemy kill of the units, and we swoop in and take meridia nd the rest of the south with our knights
asleepathewheel> using the 10 units as decoys
asleepathewheel> and also to pillage the road from alamo to the rest of ND to sever the ivory pipe
opd> I think thats a really bad idea
opd> I don't think GS are in a position to launch a southern offensive
asleepathewheel> I think it might be useful in 2-3 turns,
asleepathewheel> exactly, our knights are at least 2.5 moves away
opd> GoW can take out the RP units by themselves with little loss
* BigFree has joined #MilOps
* ChanServ sets mode: +o BigFree
* BigFree sets mode: +psnk Right
opd> While ND take out an attack we make
opd> What can your units on the mountain adjacent to the ALamo see?
opd> can you see any cats stationed outside Alamo?
opd> are you playing the save now?
opd> hello?
opd> hello?
asleepathewheel> um anyone home?
asleepathewheel> I think BF said Togas was playing the save currently
asleepathewheel> or something
BigFree> sorry
BigFree> I can send you a screen, but we see a **** load of ANsars 1 of Alamo
opd> any catapults in the stack?
asleepathewheel> hmm
BigFree> nope
BigFree> I think all Cats are in Alamo
asleepathewheel> cats stamped GS on the bottome
opd> you guys aren't seriously going to move further into GoW territory?
BigFree> Yes
opd> hmmmmn
BigFree> That is what Togas wants to do
BigFree> I was against it
BigFree> but he doesn't want to just sit there
Arnelos> people, let's not leave Pamplona underdefended... just a thought
asleepathewheel> Its a few turns premature
BigFree> I tried to tell him it would be better to coordinate
asleepathewheel> we just aren't in position to do anything yet
opd> you guys should be retreating
Arnelos> I agree
BigFree> With the lack of communication between us he felt the need to do something
Arnelos> for future reference, it would help IMMEASURABLY if GS and RP would do all warturns together
BigFree> I agree
asleepathewheel> we understand, frankly GS has recently had a lack of communication amongst itself, if you know what I mean
asleepathewheel> NYE is gone, my computer was dead for a week, etc etc
opd> no one is around
opd> shiber, zeit, Deepo
opd> all gone
opd> well not gone but not as active
BigFree> WOOT
asleepathewheel> so that is where we are at, we pitch in where we can, but...
BigFree> Ok, Togas did not play yet
BigFree> He left instructions for me to play it
asleepathewheel> cool
BigFree> 5:7P1hrew:
BigFree> I had planned to rotate out the injured units back to our terr
opd> I think maybe we should look into the forum exchange thing again
BigFree> wht is that?
opd> Someone from GS joins RP and someone from RP joins GS
opd> to act as conduits
opd> or communication links
asleepathewheel> I have to go guys, the wife is home, OPD, can you copy this stuff to our forum?
opd> ok
asleepathewheel> bye
* asleepathewheel has quit IRC (Quit: )
BigFree> That woud be good
BigFree> I will join GS
BigFree> If it is ok with our team
opd> ok I'll bring it up in the forum and make sure everyone is ok with it
BigFree> good
BigFree> I will play the turn now
BigFree> rotating the units out
BigFree> but keeping enough there to cause the discomfort
BigFree> making them keep units at home
opd> how many?
BigFree> There are 10 there now 5 pikes 5 MI's
BigFree> I will send 4 away and replace 2 of them with healthy units
opd> thats cool
BigFree> so8 wil end up ther I beilieve
opd> you don't want too few to be susceptible to serious cat damage
opd> BTW last turn they captured cats between each other to give them an extra turn of movement
opd> We don't really know but they may do the same again to attack twice with them in the same turn
BigFree> damnm that is cheating, IMO
opd> yeah they probably won't do it again but they could
BigFree> do you know much about irc?
opd> not really
BigFree> damn
BigFree> I screwed something up
BigFree> oh well
opd> I know I didn't need a password to get into this room
opd> what did you screw up
BigFree> The cahnnels used to 'flash' when there was a new message....not anymore though
* Octavian_X has joined #milops
opd> hoooray
BigFree> Maybe Oct knows
opd> Hello Ot
BigFree> The cahnnels used to 'flash' when there was a new message....not anymore though
BigFree> how do I fix that
Octavian_X> Hello
* Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_IDLE
opd> I if thats the worst of your problems you're doing ok
BigFree> screw the helos just tell me how to fix it! 5;7)1
Octavian_X> heh
Octavian_X> right click the name of the channel on mIRC
Octavian_X> select the 'Flashing' opiton.
opd> Oct can you take over I gotta go to bed
BigFree> hmm
Octavian_X> Sure thing.
opd> later
* opd has quit IRC (Quit: )
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* Octavian_X has joined #milops
* Arnelos_IDLE is now known as Arnelos
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BigFree> Hey oct
BigFree> did CFC recieve the save from us yet?
OctavianX> Yes, we have.
BigFree> cool
OctavianX> as I just told MWIA in #apolyton. 1,8:P2,1
Arnelos> has that been posted at 1bc?
* Octavian_X has joined #milops
Arnelos> 4btw... is this room hidden?
Arnelos> if not, it should be
Arnelos> BF ?
BigFree> it is
Arnelos> good
* OctavianX has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
* Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY
* Octavian_X has quit IRC (Quit: who knows?)
* BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away
* Arnelos_AWAY is now known as Arnelos
* Togas has joined #MilOps
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[Togas]

We CANNOT hold onto the save after 24 hours!

We need to follow the rules and stick to our agreement that we are to play the save within 24 hours.

I have copied BF's moves and sent the save to Vox.

In the future we MUST have our moves posted on time and we must conference with GS before the deadline runs out. It's rude and unfair to the other teams to hold onto the save longer than 24 hours.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Togas
We CANNOT hold onto the save after 24 hours!

We need to follow the rules and stick to our agreement that we are to play the save within 24 hours.

I have copied BF's moves and sent the save to Vox.

In the future we MUST have our moves posted on time and we must conference with GS before the deadline runs out. It's rude and unfair to the other teams to hold onto the save longer than 24 hours.

--Togas

We held the save for your benefit because we weren't entirely sure whether you'd approve the moves. Officially granting your deputies to make decisions of weight in your absence (and specifically naming in each case who wields that power) might help with this issue.

[BigFree]

I'm sorry about that Togas. I should have sent it off. You told me to do it, but I asked Aidun and Arnelos for advice instead and they suggested that I hold onto it till we could hear from you. Again, I apologize. I realize this makes you and our team look bad if we keep delaying the game like this.

I guess we all need to be on the same page and we need beter communication with GS about each turn. Since we lack the man hours to get all of this done, I am going to suggest that we give GS access to our save. They may not play it or move units or make any changes. Of course we trust them not to do this anywyas because their leader,nye, has the admin password anyways. It was always a point of honor from the begining. The only thing this does is reduces the burden on our team and theirs from having to chat for hours about what we see for each turn we get.

I am going to post a poll in the public forum about this topic.

[Arnelos]

Giving GS access to our save is not neccssary because of YOUR lack of time. It is also not necessary even given Togas' lack of time.

Togas has it within his power to deputize someone, make that as an announcement in the forum when he does so, and give them the authority to simply make decision for him on the save if he is not present. The problem in this case was that Togas, to my and Aidun's knowlege, had not fully signed over his powers for making final decisions to BigFree.

Furthermore, if Togas is unable to expend the necessary time on the save, he can either appoint deputies that can (as we have done repeatedly throughout our history... hasn't been all that much of a problem before) or, in an extreme case, even step down. We have a lot of people on our team and while most of them are inactive, many of them are not.

While I realize we've had a recent incident where BigFree and Aidun attempted to overthrow Togas and this creates a political tension, there's also out-of-game practicality to consider. Aidun seems to have increased free time of late, as does Nuclear Winter. I also have increased free time of late, though I'm unsure how long this may last or how much my new responsibilities in the ISDG will sap my time working for the Foreign Affairs Ministry.

The point is that we are a TEAM with many members. We should utilize as many of those members as possible for their time and talents rather than putting everything on the shoulders of people who are already overburdened in other Democracy Games.

What I think would help most is perhaps a prioritized list from Togas, like we used to have back in the bad old Despotism days, of who may play the save in what order and what level of authority they have to conduct discussions with Gathering Storm and what level of authority they have to simply make decisions as though they possessed all of the powers and responsibilities of Togas' office.

In effect, we need a Vice President and any other further deputies below a Vice President as may be necessary when the President is unavailable.

That's my two (insert your lowest denomination of currency here).

There is no NEED to share our save file with GS.

[Togas]

To clear up the confusion:

I was prepared to play the save on Tuesday night, but was asked to wait for Military orders from Nuc. So I did. I postponed playing the save until the 23rd hour, which was Wednesday during my lunch break.

While playing the save on Weds I still did not have any military orders but at least I had BigFree, Arnelos, and History present. We discussed several options for our mountain stack and just before implimenting one of them Asleepatthewheel came online and a chat began with him.

My lunch break was over. I had to get back to work so I instructed BigFree to play the turn after consulting with GS and the guys in chat.

I'm not sure why BigFree wanted to ask me about what orders he performed. He posted what the consensus was, I agreed, and yet there was some uncertainty?

I do appreciate that he wanted to check with me, but ultimately it wasn't needed. In the future, if I delegate to someone to play the turn, I trust that the person selected will do a find job. No need to ask me afterwards.

We don't have an active Lord Chamberlain. We also don't seem to have any active military plans being posted. We ALSO don't have anyone managing the workers either. If anyone is willing to step up and take any of these responsibilities and fullfill them, please say so.

--Togas