Urgent Meeting:

[Togas]

All Lords, meet in #civ3rp Migros on the undernet server.

We will be chatting throughout the night and the next day about what to do this turn.

There are important decisions to be made, and they may very well be made in chat, as we do not have the time to poll.

We will try to update you on what is being discussed and has been decided here.

--Togas

[Togas]

The following things have been discussed. Some agreed upon, some pending approval, all of which are MAJOR issues that you will need to consider and chat with us about.

If you have never joined our chat before, now is the critical time to do so.

If you cannot chat, please post and we will do our best to explain what has been going on. It has been a monumentous evening.

1) Gifting Santiago and Leon to Legoland temporarily to force ND to go for Zaragoza .... due to their NAP with legoland. (Legoland will get back to us on it)

2) Gifting Bilbao to GS to make GoW think long and hard about attacking it.

3) Signing a pact of Fealty and agreeing to be Vassals of GS. In return, they would immediately send military aid, set up camps near Madrid, fight on our behalf, and we would jointly fight GoW and ND. They get our undieing loyalty, some provisions to ensure it (still being debated) and they will get posession of our eastern and southern lands, as we take posession of ND and GoW's lands. We would retain Cow Valley. We would ultimately, be giving them the win, of course, but if all goes well, this could mean that we play a key role in destroying ND, GoW, AND Legoland.

We agreed to buy Engineering from Vox for 40g, 3gpt, and a lux to be named later.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

Transcript of the Official RP-GS Proceedings - PART 1

Togas> Arnelos, please begin.
* mss_ looks at arni
Arnelos> NYE - I assume you've read the transcript. Is there anything you have to ask about all of this?
nye_too> well.
nye_too> it seems strange that a civ that has yet to fire a shot, so to speak, offers what has been offered
* asleepath has joined #WWB
nye_too> hello, sleppy
nye_too> *sleepy
asleepath> hey
Arnelos> NYE - granted
nye_too> if all stayed equal, in territory, rp would be massive compared to gs in territory.
nye_too> after nd was taken to pieces
Arnelos> While this is true, even if GS is willing and able to help RP Team, ND will do considerable damage before you arrive
nye_too> that is true. we cannot be there quickly
nye_too> not quick enough, at any rate
Arnelos> so by the time you arrive... the chances of us competing in the winning of the game are relatively slim
Arnelos> We can certainly try to bleed ND and GoW, but we will lose
nye_too> i agree. that is likely
nye_too> btw. i have a couple of questions re the earlier log
Arnelos> go
nye_too> tech from lego was mentioned
nye_too> will they give you chivalry?
* WhiteBand has joined #WWB
Arnelos> We do not know. The only tech we have thusfar discussed with them is Education
Arnelos> Chivalry we need far more, of course
Arnelos> but I wasn' in those negotiations
Arnelos> Togas?
Togas> To my knowledge we're still waiting to hear from them about such things.
nye_too> that would help. i am sure
Arnelos> unfortunately, it would not help as much as we would hope. We have yet to BUILD any knights, even if we should obtain the tech.
nye_too> unfortunately, we are bound for a number of turns before we can grant it to you
nye_too> ahh. not many horse, then?
Arnelos> the tech we most need is Engineering, which we believe ND has gained
Arnelos> We have a few horse, but not many
Arnelos> our forces were originally swords and spears... the idea being to stop an invader within the jungle and defend south of the river with spears and attack anything coming south with swords
Arnelos> some catapults
Arnelos> with jungle swallowing so many movement points and we having a road network, a spear/sword combo works
* ruby_mase has joined #WWB
nye_too> are the number equal? or do you have a nuymerical advantage?
Arnelos> in the medieval age, we have no Chivalry, but we have Feudalism... 1 Pike + 1 MI = 70 shields = 1 knight... we might as well build pikes and MIs and we can use our road network while the jungle slows an opponent
nye_too> good point
Arnelos> that's part of what has happened, unfortunately for us, fortunate for anyone how attacks ND:
Togas> if we put our entire force against ND's entire force, we could beat them.
nye_too> but you need to be able to cross rivers quickly
Togas> however, our forces are split between GoW and ND
Arnelos> ND has sent almost their ENTIRE military, it would seem... Ansars, pikes, MIs, the whole thing
Arnelos> considering that we are still "average" to them, it MUST be most of their military
nye_too> one moment, looking at the map
Arnelos> yes, our main problem at the moment is the issue of 2 fronts
nye_too> i see
nye_too> where is the nd stack of doom?
Arnelos> Santiago #10
Arnelos> they can attack Zaragosa next turn, but not other cities until the turn after that
nye_too> not so good. is zaragoza secure?
nye_too> what about santiago?
Arnelos> our current plan calls for putting every available pikeman in the area into Zaragosa
Togas> we can secure it, but to do so we would have to sacrifice the other cities.
nye_too> santiago is a write off?
Togas> we have a plan in mind for santiago, but it's still being hashed out.
Togas> it is somewhat contingent upon our talks with you.
* mss_ raises eyebrow
nye_too> alright.
Arnelos> part of the idea for our plan was to attempt to lure the ND army of Ansars into outstripping their many pikeman defenders... then we can use MI's to kill Ansars... but if the enemy is cautious and moves slowly, we can't
Arnelos> of course, if he moves slowly, that gives more time for aid to arrive
nye_too> true
nye_too> i am struggling to think of things we could do quickly
nye_too> i cannot think of many
nye_too> a question. assuming that it is possible to preserve RP
nye_too> what territory are you most wed to of Espana?
Arnelos> I believe Togas mentioned (and others agreed) that we are most wed to Pamplona (the capital) and the area of Madrid and south
nye_too> the coast?
mss_> current home??
Arnelos> I believe the argument was that if we lose Pamplona and Madrid for good, we're done for
Arnelos> of course, that may be inevitable... it depends
nye_too> i am wondering if it would be possible for us to help you make new homes north of zaragoza
nye_too> including pamplona
Arnelos> what exactly are you proposing?
Arnelos> we're open to suggestions
nye_too> looking at it, if we are to be able to help rp survive, and if we two are going to win,
nye_too> we are going to have to exterminate nd and gow
nye_too> or at least nd, and severly maul gow
nye_too> we will need bases from which to operate.
nye_too> preferably bases that are within our ability to supply from home without unduw delay
Arnelos> so you want a piece of the eastern coast of Bob?
nye_too> from there, we strike out through RP at the targets, and add ND territory to RP as we gain it
nye_too> that would be this scenario
Arnelos> I take it the idea is to reduce corruption and waste on both ends... the best territory for GS is eastern coast which is less corrupt to your capital... best territory for us is ND which is less corrupt to ours
mss_> it would be one of the fastest ways
nye_too> is there a roa 9 of new madrid?
Arnelos> lemme look
nye_too> yes. but also lines of communication to the home land
* BigFree has joined #WWB
mss_> it also gives us ports to disembark in. that is worth a turn/ unit
Arnelos> yes, we figured that... the discussion on our end was that you would need a port on Bob to land at before railroads
nye_too> hello, BigFree
* ruby_mase has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Arnelos> There is no road at Madrid #9
* Togas- has joined #WWB
nye_too> damn
nye_too> could there be one, soon?
Arnelos> lemme see how long that would take...
Arnelos> with GoW's army pussyfooting about rather than attacking, we might actually finish one
* Togas has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Arnelos> how many worker turns is that?
WhiteBand> i can tell you
nye_too> 3?
Arnelos> I don't have the worker calculator up
WhiteBand> how many workers and what type of tile?
nye_too> 1 to move
Arnelos> forest
nye_too> hill
Togas-> hill
Arnelos> ?
* Togas- is now known as Togas
nye_too> 9 by the key pad. not work force
Arnelos> NYE - MAdrid #9 is forest
nye_too> madrid 2 by wf
mss_> ill bet you 12 turns for non-ind
WhiteBand> if it's a forest, it's 6 turns with 1 worker
Arnelos> oh... yeah, that's a hill
nye_too> no road there?
WhiteBand> same thing for hill
mss_> great
WhiteBand> 6 turns for 1 worker on a hill
Arnelos> ok... lemme check # of turns to get workers there...
mss_> 7 including move
WhiteBand> if we have 3 workers in the area, it can be done in 2 turns
nye_too> never mind
Arnelos> Togas - where did the 2 workers near GoW go this turn? the grasslands tile?
nye_too> that is too long.
nye_too> we would slove it another way
mss_> 2 turns?
Arnelos> NYE... the cows space is roaded, of course
nye_too> yes, i see that
nye_too> i am lookong for places to erect our crusader fortress
Arnelos> Bilbao is also roaded
nye_too> as a base to operate from
Arnelos> ah
Togas>
Arnelos> What specific tile did you have in mind?
nye_too> bilbao is vulnerable.
Arnelos> true
nye_too> might be two. one temp
Arnelos> ok
nye_too> new madrid 6 9 is the ideal site
mss_> I think so
nye_too> but forces there could not move past new madrid
Arnelos> ok, I see that
Arnelos> right
Arnelos> you have engineering?
nye_too> a temporary site at new madrid 3 3 gets us around that
mss_> 2 turns from monsoon
Arnelos> my thoughts exactly
nye_too> while an industrious worker bilds a road at madrid 9
nye_too> hmmm
nye_too> another thing
nye_too> have you thought that a city in gs hands might not be touched by nd or gow?
Togas> we have.
nye_too> that could be used as a block
nye_too> shut a front down
Togas> Bilbao in particular was at the top of our list.
Arnelos> Yes, in fact... we were thinking of giving you Bilbao
nye_too> it could be tried
nye_too> i am not positive gow would not take it anyway, but perhaps worth a try, if we proceed
nye_too> bibao also gets us close to nd cities.
Arnelos> btw... Bilbao will be linked by road to the rest of Spain in I believe 2 turns (would have been 1, but a worker move was messed up)
nye_too> it is an extra turn by sea
Arnelos> of course, we now plan to retreat said workers... they may build a road near Madrid if that would help
nye_too> they will move without building road?
Togas> they're going to finish the final tile in 2 turns
nye_too> that would prolly be advisable, by the shots posted
Arnelos> I'm not entirely sure of their present position
Arnelos> Togas - they're on the grasslands tile?
Togas> 9 of Toledo
Arnelos> ok
Arnelos> that's what I thought
nye_too> long term.
Arnelos> there's still a tile of jungle stopping an immediately GoW rush down there, then
nye_too> would you trade land in the east and south for the north and west?
nye_too> brb
Togas> If that is what is necessary, we would do it.
* ruby_mase has joined #WWB
nye_too> there would have to be reason for gs to make such a move. reasons that make sense to the econ crowd
nye_too> there would be one other major objection
nye_too> two actually
nye_too> one would be, how can this game stay fun for RP so that you have reason to abide by what we agree to
nye_too> the term 'vassal' is loaded
Arnelos> granted
nye_too> we would certainly not like to press rp into situations of resentment
dejon> The answer is in our name - roleplay
nye_too> it would have to be fun
Arnelos> NYE - 2 reasons
nye_too> two. rumours of deals and back room whispers
Arnelos> 1 - It is more fun for our team to roleplay our new situation, one which would perhaps even be less stressful.
nye_too> it is difficult for many on gs to trust. any civ
nye_too> good point, arne
Arnelos> 2 - There seems to be a strong desire on the part of the team at this point to join with a winning team, either you or Lego, and help them toward victory. It is more cooperative, which is fun, and provides an avenue for survival of our community.

[Arnelos]

Transcript of the Official RP-GS Proceedings - PART 2

* OctavianX has joined #WWB
nye_too> hello, octavian
OctavianX> Hello
* mss_ waves at octavian
* dejon waves hello to fellow Monty member
nye_too> octavian joined gs recently, btw
OctavianX> I'm always late to these things...
Arnelos> really?
Arnelos> interesting
Arnelos> welcome, Octavian
OctavianX> Greetings...
mss_> he is also one of your ambassadores, I believe
* OctavianX doesn't remember that...
nye_too> mss has been away for a bit
mss_> thats ok
mss_> I have been
Togas> The nation of Spain would beseech upon the great nation of the Storm to act as our guardian and save our people. In exchange for such protection, we would be beholden to you, as a Vassal state. We would share in your greatness to some degree, receive your protection, and retain our freedom, culture, and livlihood.
mss_> lost
Arnelos> (chuckle) I've been away for a bit, too ;p
OctavianX> I know the feeling...
Togas> and many of our lords and noble would receive new land grants to compensate their losses.
nye_too> we will consider this well, Togas
mss_> we will
dejon> and our retired commanders may wish to travel the GS lands detailed in the wonderful guide published recently
nye_too> all are wlecome now
Togas> And if trust is an issue between us, we would submit to any reasonable terms that ensured that the trust would not be broken.
nye_too> *welcome
nye_too> ok togas.
mss_> thank you for offering togas
nye_too> I do not want to press on this issue. it could be a sore point
Togas> The offering is made by myself, and by the Lords of Spain.
nye_too> but the question will come up of past rp diplomacy
OctavianX> true...
Togas> We will do whatever it takes to right any wrongs between us that existed in the past.
mss_> you seem honorable in spirit and we will try to see it as such
Togas> thank you.
nye_too> i know some will want to know asap, just what the heck did go on with vox?
Arnelos> I think our team is most focused right now on saving the community itself and since victory in a highly competitive environment is no longer plausible, to instead seek partnership with others in a cooperative environment.
Togas> Upon the agreement being formalized, we will "declassify" all of our documents on the Vox/GS war.
nye_too> that is fair
Togas> Spain has a very rich community of players with a long history and a great common culture that we want to preserve.
nye_too> alright. is there anything else?
Togas> We have the save right now. We intend on playing it at the 11th hour.
mss_> We will give this matyter much thought
Arnelos> and as long as we are afforded with some level of responsibility in helping in this new partnership, though the junior member, it provides something for the team to *do*
Togas> Which should be around 1-2pm PST tomorrow.
Togas> we know that it isn't much time, but the sooner we hear from you, the sooner we can prepare.
nye_too> alright
Arnelos> Afterall... in effect, we would be essentially the second GS Forbidden Palace
nye_too> i fear though, that gs will not ratify this in less than a day
mss_> This is a 2-3 day discussion
* dejon muses that the 'Poly outages could be blamed for a slight delay, if truly necessary
Togas> undestood, would it be possible to let us know about Bilbao sometime tomorrow?
nye_too> yes. that could be possible
nye_too> when did you get the save?
mss_> hell, take a penalty and grab a day
Arnelos> yeah... at this point, I'm not seeing why not
Arnelos> don't we have a lot of hours stored?
nye_too> i have two questions actually
Arnelos> NYE - go
nye_too> 1. do you want to make this relationship public?
Togas> we just might sit on it and blame poly, we've only had 4-5 hours of time to post.
mss_> exactly
nye_too> is that desirable for your rp?
Arnelos> NYE - That depends upon the tactics of the situation
Togas> I believe that it will eventually be made public
Togas> but there's no rush.
nye_too> yes, but you would wait for our blessing?
Togas> we certainly will.
Arnelos> It will eventually be made public, no doubt. However, in the short run, would it be more or less advantageous for it to be public before any GS help arrives?
nye_too> 2. how many turns can you hold out before you start crumbling in critical places?
Arnelos> I think it would be more advantageous for it to remain secret until GS is ready to have it made public
Togas> it all depends on what ND does.
Arnelos> dejon?
dejon> Hmm, I can't mention some aspects as yet, can I?
Togas> go ahead.
dejon> We are considering a 'tactic' that may grant us a few turns, but it is not yet confirmed.
dejon> If it doesn't go ahead, the pessimistic numbers have ND Ansars taking Pamplona in maybe 5 turns.
nye_too> that is good news
nye_too> to us
nye_too> some of us feared quicker
dejon> quicker is possible, i suppose, but only with *very* bad luck.
nye_too> alright
Arnelos> NYE - if they run straight for Pamplona, we can pick off their Ansars with MI's... they have to be more methodical
nye_too> ok
dejon> yeah, they'd have to beeline and beat off all counter attacks against odds
nye_too> alright then. is there anything else?
dejon> GoW will definitely take Bilbao next turn
nye_too> so you either give it or rubble it
dejon> it will auto-raze
nye_too> but they get gold
dejon> true
dejon> we'd rather gift it and see
nye_too> ok. that makes sense
dejon> The east defense forces and Toledo should fare better than the west
nye_too> some good news then. they can hold out indefinetly?
* Togas looks to Dejon.
dejon> Depends on GoW mtn/jungle manuevers - possibly, but they'd have to make sub-optimal choices
nye_too> ok
Arnelos> GoW has not attacked yet and now that they've moved a turn AWAY from Toledo, it will take them time to get down there
dejon> which they already did once, and backed out of
Arnelos> it will take 2 turns for GoW to be in striking distance of Toledo
nye_too> they moved away? since the screen shots?
Arnelos> if they go that way
Arnelos> yes
Arnelos> they moved around toward Bilbao/north
nye_too> i can see why you think gow will back stab nd
dejon> yes
Arnelos> the thing is... last turn they were 1 turn from Mavdad... they are now 4 tiles (2 turns)
dejon> I think they simply want a victorious battle, against anyone.
mss_> very suspicious
nye_too> mavdad doesnot matter that much, does it?
Arnelos> We think they may indeed backstab ND, it's what we've thought all along, but we figure they're they want to make sure RP is weakened first
nye_too> if they back stab, what of these proceedings?
Togas> if we sign this agreement, then it's done. We stick to it regardless.
nye_too> ok
dejon> Still valid, I think - ND is the greater threat
dejon> what Togas said
Arnelos> ND is indeed the much greater threat
Togas> We know there's a chance that things could turn around next turn, but the ultimate risk is too great.
Arnelos> especially with half our army up pussyfooting about with GoW rather than defending Cow Valley
dejon> We rather ensure our survival than roll the dice, as it were
* Togas nods.
dejon> The Spanish Commander has one request
nye_too> yes?
BigFree> 4Back
dejon> We would like to be the one to eliminate GoW from the game, when it comes to that point.
nye_too> heheh. that could be done
nye_too> do you folks like wind?
dejon> Thank you.
dejon> I like a blustery day, yes.
Togas>
nye_too> there tends to be a bit of it that follows us around
nye_too> we have... people who assure it
dejon>
mss_> Do you think that they are pussyfooting to "honor" their last few turns
Arnelos> MSS - I *seriously* doubt it
mss_> K
Togas> IMO, they saw the stack we placed on the mtn in their path and decided to try and outflank us.
mss_> nod
Arnelos> We've *long* suspected that GoW wanted ND to invade us so that GoW could then backstab ND. They've only gone this far into the attack in order to ensure the ND invasion actually happens
dejon> The King and I were on the mtn - we frightened them off.
Togas>
mss_> It happens
Arnelos> this is also true... they saw our stack of pikemen and MI's on the mountain while they were down in the jungle... a direct assault would have been folly
mss_> nod
dejon> Don't suppose this arrangement could somehow grant *our* galleys extra movement, eh?
dejon> Too bad you can't share wonder-effects
mss_> Look, this is a lot to hash out. GS needs to discuss this.
mss_> hehe'
dejon> of course
nye_too> yes. and poly is back up.
nye_too> i sugest we break for now.
mss_> I need to make like a baby and head out
nye_too> not many moments to lose
mss_> I do not have a log of this. Arne, do you?
nye_too> i have a log
dejon> I have one
mss_> good. Can you post it then?
Arnelos> I can make a log, yes
nye_too> i will post logs
Arnelos> I will post logs as well
mss_> I will get the thread going
* mss_ is now known as mss_windi
nye_too> ok. i will say g'night
Arnelos> NYE - wait a moment...
dejon> Nice chatting to the Storm.
Arnelos> NYE - should we draw up a formal treaty for this?
mss_windi> nice and calm
nye_too> you could work on that, arne. we will be discussing
Arnelos> ok
nye_too> just remember, that gs prefers plain language.
Arnelos> indeed
mss_windi> this deservres it
Arnelos> that's why Togas would probably make *me* write it
nye_too> i will be on for a bit. if something comes up, ring me up
nye_too>
nye_too> gotta go. the american posters are losing time on seeing this material
* nye_too has left #WWB
Arnelos> ok... taking log
dejon> Bye all
OctavianX> g'night
* dejon has left #WWB
Togas> good chatting with you

[BigFree]

This was a TOP-SECRET chat I had with nye, this is not to be repeated outside of this forum or in any chat with any team.

I had a brief chat with nye and he reponded well to the idea of a "joint victory for Gs and RP." He said, "I think that is an interesting idea, if the british win, do not the scots?"

So could call ourselves victors yet!

[History Guy]

I don't know about ceding lands and becoming vassals...

In my opinion, it is better to go down fighting than that.

I'll try to get on later when I get back from Wisconsin.

[mrmitchell]

History Guy's got the idea...honor, dude. (Maybe I'm just over-roleplaying it...but really... )

However, I'd much rather prefer a Lego win to a Stormian win.

Anyways...

[civman2000]

to this. RPwise, we should also require the Stormians to convert to christianity as part of the agreement, and RPwise they would be bound to respect us because we are the mother country of the religion and home of the pope. Unless GoW backstabs ND very soon, not making some sort of agreement of protection or at least temporary cit-gifting will kill us. GS may (probably will) betray this agreement later, but if we can convince them to help/let us get almost all of Bob, we could end up in a position to backstab them or beat them to a more peaceful means of victory.

[mrmitchell]

I envision a world with two superpowers Lego and Storm, these superpowers two each holding outposts on their vassal continent Bob, inhabited solely by the Roleplay team, untouched only because it is sacred ground as the home of the Pope

That's as optomistic as I'm getting here...

Once we do gift them, play up that we are trying to save the people and history of Spain, as our conquerors would surely just mooch off the farms, rape the women, and move on...

[History Guy]

Exactly. One conqueror is the same as the other. Autonomy is what we want. If half our country vanishes and the other half is under Egypt's thumb, that is not autonomy. We want to win this war, we don't want to be chopping our lands to bits to please everyone. We are not cowards, and we will not give in. We will not submit to Arabia without shedding our own blood in the process, and I hope and pray that I never see the day that we are taking orders from a grubby little Egyptian in some backoffice in the Egyptian colonial capital of Santiago!

Lord Toledo

[Nuclear Winter]

Let us agree to this for now, and get help as much as we can. If we survive, then this is post war talk
But Please, let us not let RP die folks
It is what keeps many pple (at least me) to Poly!!

[Togas]

Lords of Spain, do not think that these past few days have been easy for me, as they have been the most difficult days for any King, filled with sleepless nights and impossible decisions. When I look at what we are facing, forgive me, but I do not see hope, I see death. I see great death and suffering. It is not the sort of thing that 'just one more' pikeman or infantry would preserve. We are faced with overwhelming enemy forces. Most, if not all, of Spain will fall no matter how hard we struggle. And as we lose cities, we lose our ability to ever win back our country.

Those of you who call for us to fight, do not dispair, for fighting we shall see. More fighting and more bloodshed than our nation has ever faced. However, we are fools if we believe that we alone can defeat these two invaders. Therefore, we must seek outside allies, and we must ensure that they will take our offer, not idle about and talk and consider it. We must make sure that help will come NOW, and we must make sure that the help that comes is genuine.

Those of you who know me know that I am a man of action, a man of wisdom, and a man of courage. But more than any of those thing, I am a man of Spain. Spanish blood flows through my veins, Spanish tales and stories are my history, and when I sleep I have Spanish dreams. I dream and wish to see our people live through this tragedy, and dream of a day when we will have the power to enact righteous vengence upon our attackers. There is only once option that gives us these possibilities, and it is to sign a life-pact with the Stormians.

Now, it is well known that I cannot stomach the Stormians, however, if I am willing to set aside my personal feelings about them and accept this deal, I see no reason why you cannot. They have one thing going for them that no other team has, they have a steadfast sense of honor and duty that we can depend on.

To pull this off we give a certain amount of ultimate control to a team that, frankly, has far more power than we do, and holds the fate of our nation in their hands. Surely, the power was already theirs to begin with. We are fooling ourselves if we think otherwise. We are merely recognizing the truth of the situation.

If you review the terms of the proposal drafted by Arnelos it becomes clear that we SHALL NOT BE SLAVES. This is, to me, the thing that seals the deal. Our people shall not live in bondage as servants to another nation. Our people shall be governed by Spanish nobles and lords, and we shall be virtually autonomous. Furthermore, we shall share in the glory of an alliance FAR more grand than that which the Warmongers have thrown upon us.

Lords, I know that you have given me great power in this time of emergency, however, I do not want there to be discord or disinterest amongst us. I want you to understand that the door is not shut on our team. Our future is not decided, and our nation may not be split between two warmongers. Please, for the good of our Spanish children, support me in this very difficult time. Please stand with me as we make this fateful plunge into history.

--Togas

[DAVOUT]

OOC

Game wise, recognizing that we have lost is one thing, but becoming vassals of GS is unfair for the other teams by giving to GS an undeserved advantage big enough to decide the victory.

Therefore I do not favor this treaty.

/OOC

*In the deepest jail of the Church, Tomas de Torquemada despairs*

Spain is under attack, and the Pope and the King still prefer to let me here rather than allow me to fight our enemies... They will never forgive me for my anticipating the current desater.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
Spain is under attack, and the Pope and the King still prefer to let me here rather than allow me to fight our enemies... They will never forgive me for my anticipating the current desater.

I propose that we put Senor Torquemada on the front lines at Zaragosa, that he may prove his valour and restore the honor of his household.

We certainly need every able man we can find.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
OOC

Game wise, recognizing that we have lost is one thing, but becoming vassals of GS is unfair for the other teams by giving to GS an undeserved advantage big enough to decide the victory.

Therefore I do not favor this treaty.

/OOC

OOC

This does not break the game in the slightest. This is like when you played risk as kids... basically, it's one of those things where GS is agreeing to bail us out in return for us working together to ensure victory. Like those old games of risk when I was a kid, that means we beat everyone else, then if the game still isn't decided, the only thing left is to compete with one another.

A long-term alliance makes PERFECT sense in a game like this. If we're the only ones to do something like that, we have a significant advantage.

That said, I'm starting to suspect that Glory of War and Neu Demogyptica may (on paper) already have a similar agreement.

/OOC