House of Lords bill: Declaration of war on ND and approval of an alliance with GoW

[Aidun]

I always keep my vote untill all others have voted and I always wait with voting until everybody else has speeched too.
I am still convinced that war with ND and spleiiting up the continent in two parts, is the only way to victory for Spain. Even though it is safe for us to keep walking at the hand of Legoland, it is not our way to victory.
Thus I am still in favor of the plan to have war, and in favor of the plan to ally with GoW. My only demand, chivalry and a nice army with knights, is but likely to not be fulfilled. Therefore I vote NO to war and allying. Tell GoW that we are not prepared for it and will not attack until we are. Let them do it alone if they desire so, but not now.

Duke Aidun Cian of Zaragoza

[civman2000]

My yes vote was on the basic assumption that we would get chivalry before we joined the war and that we wouldn't have to join until we were ready.

I am still convinced that war with ND and spleiiting up the continent in two parts, is the only way to victory for Spain. Even though it is safe for us to keep walking at the hand of Legoland, it is not our way to victory.
Thus I am still in favor of the plan to have war, and in favor of the plan to ally with GoW. My only demand, chivalry and a nice army with knights, is but likely to not be fulfilled. Therefore I vote NO to war and allying. Tell GoW that we are not prepared for it and will not attack until we are. Let them do it alone if they desire so, but not now.

But the current alliance proposal does not require us to join the war immediately. It essentially gives us a free hand to attack ND if we want, but we can stall awhile if we're not ready or uncertain whether we should.

[History Guy]

Duke Aidun,

We must make it clear that we cannot attack without Chivalry or as many Knights as we need. There is no point in trying to attack without Knights. We'll be crushed before we get started. It would be foolish, a waste of men, and perhaps the end of Spain itself. We cannot allow this to happen.

We must only sign this document if the Chinese gives us what we want. If they don't, then there is no agreement. We will not come into this thing when we haven't got the troops to accomplish a damn thing. This cannot be allowed, and should not be tolerated. If they expect us to enter their war, they had better give us what we want first.

Lord Toledo

[Aidun]

I totally agree with you Lord Toledo, it is indeed foolish to attack with only infantry. If I sent my soldiers into a war, I do that with both cavalry and infantry. The early middle ages are behind us now, we are now in the high middle ages. In these times we fight with knights, not only with footsoldiers.

The fact that I vote against this is a sign to his Majesty and Señor Clemente and Libre, some of his advisors.

Duke Aidun Cian of Zaragoza

[Hot Mustard]

After a good night's sleep, my position has softened.

Read my post here for more information.

While I'm no longer against the GoW alliance (provided it really requires nothing from us), I am still strongly against declaring war on ND, at least until such time that we have Chivalry and enough Knights for an city-capturing force (~8 at least).

[LzPrst]

I cannot condone a course of action that will make us the aggressor. We may defend ourselves far into enemy territory and we may support our allies no matter how foul they may be, but I will not be accused of being a warmonger like our barbarous northern neighbours!

[astrologix]

I voted against declaring war against ND and against an alliance with GoW. We can't be the aggressor !

[GodKing]

WAR!!!

I am in favor. Have been since the early days of this game. I feel that my initial plan of attack, way back when, may still have some uses. I will look for a copy, otherwise someone might want to go back 3 months and look in this forum..... nope, don't seem to have a copy any more. I will do a quick search and bump it if I find it.

[GodKing]

Voted war without ally as a formal ally is unnecessay. If we choose to ally than I also have no objections, just need to point out that they are untrustworthy in the exream.

[CiverDan]

No war without Chivalry and time to build Knights and GoW alliance. We need the GoW alliance to stop them from backstabbing us during the ND conflict AND provide a second front. Otherwise its Med. Inf+a few knights against Ansars and a civ it its Golden Age at a minimum and if anyone else were to join in against us we would be finished.

Btw, what is GoW doing with those 10 Riders anyways. You don't bring 10 riders away from your homeland like that for defensive reasons. They clearly plan on attacking someone shortly. They must be watched closely. Either they are going to attack us, which if they wont give us Chivalry, be VERY wary of a ND+GoW attack on us. Otherwise they will attack ND from that direction with that stack. I assume the have at least one other stack near their core cities.

[mrmitchell]

GK, we all _want_ war, but we have to make sure no one thinks we're the aggressors either. That's whut our alliance is for. We know they're untrustworthy. The options are:

1. Ally, and GoW attacks them, and we "have to" attack as because of the pact. Our reputation only gets a slight blemish if any at all and they take the aggressor blame.
2. Ally, and GoW attacks US, and we hire Beta as our official PR manager, problem solved. At the very least, we could tout about on our own how we signed an alliance and were still hit out of the blue. Lego would probably keep quiet about how they were informed of we thought there was a risk; it's better for them if we have the upper hand--that is, with the risk that we told them about with GoW.
3. Do not ally, let GoW conquer ND, lather, rinse, repeat.
4. Do not ally, GoW and ND won't get into a bloodbath, sorry, pal, too much to risk on a lone chance.
5. Do not ally, attack with GoW anyways. Confusion in their team as we turned down an alliance; anger from Lego as we told them GoW is a risk. (I believe that was the lie we told them. After a while all these keep piling up )

I think that's all...btw, there is no option in here for Ally but no Declaration. I think that's whut the majority of the team wants.

[ruby_maser]

I'm a conscientous objector and would have abstained if this poll wasn't closed.



War may be the way to win, as GK predicts, but it is not war on the other team's terms that does so, IMHO.

GoW seemed to know this very well. Their build-up was well-disguised, and they have, in a sense, forced our hand for fear of their stack-of-doom coming our way. Our offensive and defensive potential, our planning, and our determination is nowhere near what I would expect that the minimum would be to sustain an invasion of this magnitude. I predict attrition as a best-case scenario

As such, I think we missed a paradigm that we may not out-live the reprecussion of. We failed to adequately prepare for the future that has come too soon. Should we survive it, I will applaud the tacticians. Therefore, if we have our collective back to the wall, and no other options present themselves, let's get it on and take as many of those b@stards with us as we can

[mrmitchell]

Yes, exactly. IF we can't stay alive, we go out with a bang instead of a fizz.

[civman2000]

I must protest the King's recent offer of his daughter to the Chinese for marriage purposes! We must respect the sanctity of marriage, and not turn it into a mere political tool! Perhaps it could help us convert the Chinese, but that is dubious. Even worse, a pagan Chinese could become our King if there are no Spanish heirs!

Daniel de la Civ

[History Guy]

No way out, no way out, no way out, no way out...

(Gastronome Neecap V sits in a corner nipping his finger-nails and chattering wide-eyed... Lord Toledo approaches on his way to the front...)

Come, Gastronome, faithful Squire. You've been a faithful servant since your youth, do not disappoint me now. We've got to fight, and if needs be die, to save our country.

But what if our country cannot be saved, you ask?

What does it matter? If it cannot be saved, it shall be destroyed. If we fight and cannot save it, it is destroyed. If we do not fight and cannot save it, it is destroyed. Let's die together, for though our country dies with us, we will have at least looked at Death unafraid.

What is the life of one man worth? What is the worth of a country? What is the difference between a King and a beggar when times as this arise? One hasn't means but knows that he wants to be protected. One has means to protect himself, but boldly goes forward to his peril.

Who is the wiser? The one who dies in the fight, or the one who avoids the fight? That is a question that even the wisest cannot solve.

Lord Toledo