New Academia

[civman2000]

ALL HAIL THE ING!

What is this ING? Is it some sort of Republican codeword??

Caterina Ordonez de la Civ

[mrmitchell]

Whoops. It's too late now...

Uh, I mean, I meant to say, uhm, King. That's right, King, not Ing, King. Just a common error.

[History Guy]

Ing? Ing? I've got a cousin Ing. Short for Ingmar, don't'cha know?

Gastronome Neecap

[Togas]

We need not have a violent revolution to effect change in Spain. We have always been a pious and noble people, ones who value our unity and our culture above self interest. I, as King, am no different.

Certainly, it would be possible to outlaw and execute all of those who are plotting and discussing a change in our government. As King I have the power to execute any of you. But that would not make the promise of this new government any less real, nor would it dispell the arguments that have been set forth. By simply reorganizing ourselves we have the very real promise of added commerce which will lead to more learning and more money for our government.

Therefore, I have come to the Academia to discuss with you the possibilities for a new Spanish government. Please join me in this discussion.

PURE REPUBLIC -- The greatest leaders amongst us gather, each chosen by either their family or their region, and create laws, elect rulers, and decide the fate of Spain. In such a system I would humbly suggest that the Senate would elect an Emperer of Spain, who would be answerable to the Senate. The Emperer's power would be limited only by the Senate's will.

CONFEDERATION -- Spain is divided into states or regions. Each Region has a ruler. The regions come together and appoint/elect a President of Spain.

CONSTITUTIONAL -- Spain adopts a Constitution whereby the regions select representatives who form a Senate. The King retains executive authority, however, his authority is limited by the Constitution and the spending powers of the Senate.


and an idea I had based on previous discussions ...

THE SPANISH REPUBLIC -- Constitutional Monarchy. Retain a King but limit the powers of the King. There would be two houses of government:

House of Lords: Would be a place for selected nobles and clergy, who would sit and handle matters of the nation including justice and choosing ministers. (Perhaps other powers as well?) Allows the powerful Lords of Spain to retain much of their previous power.

House of Representatives: Would be a place for elected representatives (the whole of the team) to create laws, decide the budget, and inact Domestic policies.

I believe we should limit the membership of the House of Lords to a set # ... perhaps 7. They would initially be chosen by the King and after that, would choose their own members and dismiss their own members if they became inactive. It would be where the "Elite" of Spain met and had some say in our policies, justice, and leadership.

The main work and main power would reside with the House of Representatives.

--Togas

[Togas]

also, I would STRONGLY RECOMMEND that we meet in chat over the next few days to begin discussing this. We may need to have a Constitution drafted and we'll need everyone's help to draft it.

--Togas

[civman2000]

I would support the "Spanish Republic" idea, though many of the others also sound OK.

Daniel de la Civ

OOC: Perhaps the Upper House could be sort of like the RL Holy Roman Empire Electorate: certain historically established positions, half bishoprics or other churhch positions and half secular fiefdoms, elect the King and could also have other powers too.

[Aidun]

Pure republic and a confederation with a president are unspanish. Spain has always had a strong monarchy and became strong with that monarchy. I think it is not good to deviate from that history.

Constituational monarchy is not something for this moment, but a form of monarchy that was and is used by industrialized countries. We are not yet industrialized and so it is not appropriate to have this form of government now. Second: I don't want to miss another French Revolution that introduced the concept of the Constitutional Monarchy.

Here is a quote of Nuclear Winter's plan:

Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
I sugest we have a revolution, where each feudal lord declares it´s own fief to be his reign. Then , when the revolution ends 25 years after it (1 turn) We unite Spain as a Confederation of States (I have in my mind the Germanic league of old), where the lords gather after a King dies to vote for a new king to be chosen. Even though the candidate still needs to have royal blood.
Just an idea

Nuclear Winter's plan is closest to a feudal state and has my favor although I like the Spanish republic plan very much. I think however, that that is something that fits better when the time has advanced a bit more. If we follow the current tendency, we'll be a full democracy before the year 500 AD.

The Spanish Republic plan seems to me more like a post-medieval but pre-industrial government type. We can still introduce this when we're tired of playing the feudal lords.

I'm doubting a bit, but I like both systems.

Aidun

[Aidun]

I've made up my mind. I'm in favor of the Spanish Republic plan of Togas.

I CALL ALL THE LORDS OF SPAIN TO AGREE WITH TOGAS'S PLAN OF A SPANISH REPUBLIC.

Aidun

[BigFree]

Hear Hear!!

[History Guy]

I agree!

The feudal state of Toledo awaits the ability to be autonomous once again!

Hoorah! Squid and beer for everyone!

Don Iago Calamari de Toledo

[DAVOUT]

I agree with the Spanish Republic along the broad lines described by Togas.

As we are currently building a military (and we can expect that military matters will be hight on Spain agenda for some centuries), I suggest that we add a War Council which would focus on war plans (offence and defence). Members would be volonteers interested in the subject. Proposals would be submitted to the House of Representatives.

[Hot Mustard]

[OOC]
Yes, we should change to Republic.
[/OOC]

* Commander Dejon walks in

I will not support a ruling system that means I have to plead with more people to build and support the military!

It's bad enough now with the city governors. At least King Togas can override them if I convince him to. This idea will mean I would have to convince 7 people! Grr.

Wait - what's that idea of a War Council?

Perhaps if a few select Lords were part of a Military Council, that had the ability to veto the House of Lords on matters concerning the safety and expansion (militarily) of Spain, I might be persuaded to support the new system.

For the first members of the Military Council I would suggest myself, King Togas, and the Lords of cities with barracks (Aidun, History Guy).

[Nuclear Winter]

The sistem works this way:
Each member of our team gains a title of Lordship. If there are not enough cities for all, we give some lords the lordship over cities that are not represented in game (E.G. Lord of La Coruña).

The Lords gather in the palace of Spain always a king dies. Then, they vote for who shall be the king of Spain. All are possible candidates, as long as they have noble blood. Then the lords solve any draw or such by the means of a discussion and the new king is then chosen.
By this, each state has more powers over itself, beign able to proclaim laws, and appoint enchargements for itself, but the king can override any order or law proclaimed by the lords, and the lords must try to keep in accordance with the royal policies.
And every time something really important happens, something that affects the whole nation (like deciding on declaring a war,coordinating a war effort) the lords gather for discussing the ideas and then they vote at the end of the meeting.

This are teh basics of my idea, hope I didn´t forget anything,
Nuclear Winter

[LzPrst]

Now that our glorious academia has spurred our society forward I believe we should lay our discussion on the republic at ease. We have many other issues at hand.

Such as:
1. What are our alchemists and wise men working on and what should they aim for?
2. Do we want to destroy the evil of the north or should we remain peaceful forever?
3. What about the foulness of Legoland?
4. Should we allow public nudity?

[History Guy]

As for some of your questions, wise sage and son in law...

2. Should we destroy the menace of the north? The question is easy to answer. Eventually, if we don't take them down, they will destroy us. There is no chance that we shall avoid a war throughout all of history. They will be prepared for an offensive action against us. Let us hope that forcing them on the defensive will damage them severely.

3. Legoland is foul, as Senor de la Civ pointed out from his visit. However, we can not do anything about that until we have made sure of our competition on this continent. If we tried to take a military action against Legoland, we should fail miserably. Unless we defeat Neu Demogyptica, there is nothing we can do militarily against the accursed Legomen! Now, trade embargoes, on the other hand, might do much more damage.

4. You would ask that... No comment!

Lord Toledo