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**Togas** · June 2, 2003, 19:29

My thoughts for the future of our cities:

(note: These are not orders, these are ideas for discussion)

Pamplona, our new capital, needs to quickly build some vital city structures and should then supply us with units. Pamplona could take over the role that Madrid once held once it has a barracks of it's own and a few more mines ... especially on Gold Mountain.

Pamplona could use the forest and the addition of a few mines to become our center production city, building units, workers, and settlers for our nation.

New Madrid is the best candidate for a Wonder City. All it needs is a temple and then it can start on a Wonder. We can move mil units there and with Toledo and Pamplona building barracks, Madrid can focus solely on great wonders as we build a "palace" there to change later on to the wonder of our choice.

Zaragoza will fastly become a major production center and with the addition of 2 mines (URGENT) will rise to 10 sheild production status. Unfortunately, I see little in Zaragoza's future except mil unit production, but if we get a break somewhere down the line it could use a Marketplace.

Toledo will also become a major military center for our nation, and may want to add city walls at some point. It needs additional defenders and will likely build pikes to help itself, Bilbao and Madrid.

Bilbao our Eastern Port City needs a lot of work and will build workers to improve it and eventually make it our port of choice. It is a vital strategic city that would be served well by walls and a road to Madrid.

Barcelona, is a major sea-faring city that needs a Market and temple improvement soon after it's fleet build-up. However, I forsee a great many ships coming from this port city.

Santiago our commercial paradise desperately needs mines and improvements. we need to link up the other silks for trade purposes and otherwise improve this city so that we can maximise it's commerce might.

Leon can now become our settler pump as it has enough sheilds with the lowered corruption. It will remain a settler/worker pump for some time.

Vigo needs a lot of work. It's POTENTIAL is huge with the iron and gems in it's radius, but it needs food to be able to feed the workforce we plan to employ there. It also needs a market and some defenders as it is very vulnerable to a sea attack. Eventually this city will be a commercial and production powerhouse, but it's a long way from there now.

Valencia is also a commerce city but with some decent well-rounded growth potential. It will take advantage of the river with spices with a marketplace.

Salamanca has great production potential as it's very close to our capital, and has many hills to mine, gold, and a river, plus the floodplain to help it get kicked off quickly. With a little work this city could quickly begin contributing to the greater good of the nation.

Sevilla with it's ivory and river, this city is very much like Valencia. Commerce rich with even growth. It'll need a courthouse, however, before it can truely contribute.

--Togas

**Togas** · June 2, 2003, 19:46

Running the Kingdom: City Discussion Thread

The following cities are assigned to the following Lords:

Pamplona -- Ruby_Maser
Zaragoza -- Aidun
New Madrid -- Togas
Barcelona -- Astrologix
Toledo -- History Guy
Bilbao -- BigFree
Santiago -- Nuclear Winter
Vigo -- LzPrst
Leon -- Dejon
Salamanca -- Dejon
Valencia -- E_T
Sevilla -- MrMitchell

**E_T** · June 2, 2003, 20:19

I need more workers!!!

Foreman E_T

**History Guy** · June 2, 2003, 22:01

Senor Big Free,

That deal is no deal at all. I suggest we drop it, we get Theology from another group, and we build our Chapel.

Your Majesty,

All I request is that several workers mine the mountains, and provide some more irrigation for the growth of the city.

In future, I plan:

Med. Infantry
Settler
Pikeman
Med. Infantry
City Walls

Don Iago Calamari de Toledo

**ruby_maser** · June 2, 2003, 23:28

Pamplona

Originally posted by Togas
Pamplona, our new capital, needs to quickly build some vital city structures and should then supply us with units. Pamplona could take over the role that Madrid once held once it has a barracks of it's own and a few more mines ... especially on Gold Mountain.

Pamplona could use the forest and the addition of a few mines to become our center production city, building units, workers, and settlers for our nation.

New Madrid is the best candidate for a Wonder City. All it needs is a temple and then it can start on a Wonder. We can move mil units there and with Toledo and Pamplona building barracks, Madrid can focus solely on great wonders as we build a "palace" there to change later on to the wonder of our choice.

Well, I would prefer some more specifics to work with concerning the "vital city structures" Pamplona needs.

Lord Togas, I assume (and could you please verify) that you now want Pamplona to build a barracks and New Madrid to not build one.

Even still, the most obvious choices for city improvements in Pamplona still remain a very small handful of the total options available. It seems to me that there are just 4 at the moment:
barracks, granary, library, or marketplace.

1. Library -- given our current research rate, this option seems not to be the first choice.... soon but certainly not first. Enough said.

2. Barracks -- obviously a must-have for a city with the production potential our capital has. The question remains whether we intend to upgrade existing forces or do so while expanding the size of our armies. Upgrades can be accomplished with our existing barracks and help to maintain a defensive posture of pikeman to give our neighbors second thoughts. I am unaware if we have some devious intention of going to war within the next few turns with our closest neighbors, expanding our offensive capabilities would be justifiable, but how critical it is or how city-specific the job would be is debatable. Bear with me.

Marketplace -- with Gold Mountain and river bonus tiles and the commerce bonus from our Commercial civ trait kicking in at size 7 , Pamplona has the potential to become a cash cow regardless. A marketplace would only improve this, but perhaps there is another way to do so... (see below)

Granary -- Even with Pamplona's strong growth, at the present level of tile improvements and with it currently hosting the scientist who is doing our research for us, the city will take 50 turns to get to size 12 (at size 7, surplus minimums for pop. growth double to 40 without a granary present to cut that in half), not counting the settlers or workers the city may build and slow that goal even more. But getting to large populations sooner represents a boost in all sectors or our economy simply due to the naturally occurring principles of scale (ex: an average city at size 12 has double the productivity as an average size 6 city in the same amount of time). This is why we are 5th in productivity, but this is also why a marketplace can wait. If we can get Pamplona to those levels quicker, we get the benefits of all the extra shields and gold quicker as well. A naturally occurring marketplace effect on our commerce.

I estimate a granary could be completed in 210 BC. That is 8 turns after the completion the worker unit I have lined up next in the queue and only 10 turns from now (410 BC). By slowing growth for one turn, the city would then grow to size 7 in 190 BC and have a granary already operating to reduce the time it would take to get those undiscovered amounts of gold and shields working for us that much sooner. That is only an 8 turn delay on any of the other improvements listed above.

**BigFree** · June 3, 2003, 06:18

Pamplona
It has many nice tiles for growth/production/commerce. This city really has it all! It should be the center for commerce and research; it too many river tiles/bonus tiles to pass that up. To take advantage of these qualities we should let this city grow after it has built a Granery. When it finishes it's Temple, switch to two Setter's or one Settler and two Workers; all done consecutively. Then build the Granery; timing it's completion to right before it grows again. After that build a MarketPlace. By that time we should should be starting to do our own research, so a Library is in order next. A Barracks after that, with various units builds fit in between the occasional improvement like a University or a Cathedral.

New Madrid
I agree with Togas that Madrid can be a great Wonder producer, but can we afford to lose such a production powerhouse right now? 5 turns till the Temple. Then 6 more for a Barracks with it putting out 8 spt, after counting for waste. It could produce 30 shield Pikes in 4 turns(2 wasted shields) or 40 shield Med Inf in 5 turns(no waste.) It production number's go up, depending on Worker's impending improvements, to 10 spt with still a +3 food per turn growth rate in about 14 turns and 13 spt in 21 turns with +2 food per turn growth rate.

Zaragoza
With Zaragoza being on the front line, as it is, it need to do only Military production till we are absolutely certain that we are in no danger from any other Civ. Then it can throw in the occasional city improvement. Zaragoza should supply the rest of our expanding Empire with, first Defesive units, then with a few supporting Offensive units.

Toledo
Toledo should have the same duty as Zaragoza. Exactly.

Bilbao
This city is young. It has no forest tiles, no bonus tiles, no river tiles, but it does have some hills and mountains and there may be something underneath all that jungle. There's 5 jungle tiles and 4 coastal tiles. With only 4 coastal tiles, a Harbor can wait. It needs to have the two grassland tiles mined and roaded then one of the hils the same. The some of the jungle should be cleared, with hopefully some bonus grassland underneath. It should probably build two worker's to complete this task and not ask worker's from other towns to help it. Walls should be the first build followed by a Temple. It will need Miltary units from either Zaragoza or Toledo to support it.

Barcelona
I agree with Togas completely.

Santiago
I agree with Togas completely. We need to build a few worker's out of here to do this though, that jungle has got to be cleared around both Santiago, especially the dyes, and around Zaragoza. This makes it easier for our troops to kill incoming units, since they won't have the 25% jungle defense bonus.

This may sound weird, but we should build Fortresses on both #9 tiles(keypad) of Zaragoza and Santiago so that our enemies from the North may not use that spot to launch an attack towards our Cities. We force them instead to attack accross the rivers in both cities, giving us a 25% bonus to defense. Of course you have to man the Fortresses as well! If they try to go by the Forteresses, the Fortress itself will take a shot at them on their way by and it gives us another turn or two at attacking them from either within the Fortress or from within our own city.

Leon
I agree with Togas somewhat; It could be used for more
in the near future, but for now a 'pump' is what works best. We do need lots of worker's and lots of Settler's.

Vigo
Togas has a good idea about this city. I suggest we irrigate the grassland tiles and mine the Iron first, then the Diamonds. A market place and then a Library should be it's number one priorities follwed by an aqueduct and then we shoud consider adding worker's into it's population; maybe getting them from the City that has yet to be settled, the one that has a lot of bonus food tiles, but suffer's somewhat from corruption and waste.

Valencia
This place will experience alot of corruption until we can get a FP built somwhere in our Southland area. Until then we should concentrate on protecting the spices there. Maybe build some Walls and some Catapults, since a Barracks is not need for them. We send defender's from the other cities. Once it is well defended we can build a Temple and then maybe a Barracks or just Defesive units/Galleys

Salamanca
This is the city that could be our Wonder producer, IMO. It has very high potential and won't be wasting earlier resources like a Barracks by building a Wonder. If we are going to build a Wonder there, we should only consider building a Temple first and not anything else. This needs to be decided soon, as it is set to build a worker, I think. Should Salamanca build the Sistine Chappel? I think so

Sevilla
I think this town should house our FP or maybe the town that is to be a little North and East of it. Until such a time that a FP can be planned/built, we should only plan for a Temple and Defensive units/Worker's. A Courthouse would be a waste if we plan on building a FP nearby, IMO. (FP=Forbiden Palace)

**Hot Mustard** · June 3, 2003, 08:57

Has everyone gone mad? Haven't you forgotten something?

We have to finish settling Spain!

If we don't:
-our rivals could settle cities amongst ours
-we leave our shores open to military incursions
-we leave our gems, ivory, and iron open to attack
-we remain "in the race" rather than "ahead of the pack"

If we do:
-by ruling more cities/land/resources than either ND or GoW, we should be assured of dominance on this continent.
-we ensure that no one city loss will mean the loss of a luxury or resource (gems, ivory, iron)
-our coastal cities provide a warning system against seaborn attack
-we earn a place amongst the largest and strongest civs in the game, and force GoW and ND to treat us with caution and respect

We also require an extensive road network to connect all of Spain.

I would like to see a plan where we complete as many settlers and workers as soon as possible. We have 7 more city sites to settle. Once the settlers are done, we can proceed with the improvements that everyone is debating. I vow to use Leon in this manner, and Salamanca as well. If we could get Vigo, Santiago and Pamplona to pitch in one settler each, we could finish the four remaining coastal cities in short order, and then Leon and Salamance will fill in the southern interior as quickly as they can.

**ruby_maser** · June 3, 2003, 11:19

Señor Bigfree, I feel like a complete @sshole

I was wanting to quote your post and accidentally pressed "edit" instead of "quote". I didn't even realize it until I had already successfully done so. I re-removed my commentary from it but I'm afraid all was lost but info concerning Pamplona.

I hope you can forgive me. It was completely unintentional, and now I feel like a jerk. I'm sorry

**History Guy** · June 3, 2003, 12:52

Marshal Dejon,

Toledo plans to build a settler after we complete our barracks and first medieval infantry.

Don Iago Calamari de Toledo

**BigFree** · June 3, 2003, 18:27

ruby_maser, check to see if you have that page in you internet cache. Check your "history" folder's, it may be in there. Then you can copy paste the original post back together. If not, no problems, mistakes happen, no one is dead.

**BigFree** · June 3, 2003, 23:01

ruby_maser; as you can see I was able to rebuild my post, so don't bother with looking.

**ruby_maser** · June 3, 2003, 23:27

Originally posted by BigFree
ruby_maser; as you can see I was able to rebuild my post, so don't bother with looking.

I made sure and quote you this time

I took a look earlier and couldn't find a cache for the private forums. I don't think I'm familiar enough with 'Poly tricks, but I'm glad you were able to get your post back

Sorry again, and I will be more careful in the future

**History Guy** · June 3, 2003, 23:28

I agree, except that without City Walls Toledo may be the first to fall.

**BigFree** · June 4, 2003, 00:12

Originally posted by History Guy
I agree, except that without City Walls Toledo may be the first to fall.

With whom are you agreeing with?

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