Chat with Vox (and GS)

[BigFurryMonster]

I had a long chat with Vox, and GS. Trip joined in later:

if you want to know who said what, please "edit" this post

[16:04] good morning!!
[16:05] so - I'm Ok here, right?
[16:05] yes
[16:05] OK - what's up?
[16:06] Trip told me you two had been discussing plans
[16:06] for the future of Lux
[16:06] yup
[16:06] What is your opinion of it?
[16:06] I'm keen. But it is under discssion right now at Vox.
[16:07] BFM?
[16:07] Ah. Let me add: we can essentially become one Civ with 2 UU's!
[16:07] yes?
[16:07] yes.
[16:08] Plus - we're both Scientific. If we play it right, we both get 2 free techs
[16:08] yup
[16:08] I sure hope you are the One Voice today.
[16:08] hehe
[16:09] OK- we have some details to figure out.
[16:09] OK...
[16:09] Just ask me
[16:10] There still needs to be a 'yes' vote back at Vox. One big question that has come up..
[16:10] Is how do you plan on getting to Legoland with a galley?
[16:11] Lego has told us that there is a sailable corridor
[16:11] I don't know where though - Trip might
[16:11] But you need to sail down the other continent - where you may not -er - be welcome.
[16:12] And your galley may be destroyed..
[16:12] Your civ maybe destroyed at sea - so to speak.
[16:12] We have arranged a few things with Lego
[16:12] Trip has, that is
[16:12] Such as..
[16:13] A welcome committee :-)
[16:13] Don't worry about that
[16:13] ah - yes - we need to worry about that. brb
[16:14] Ok - back.
[16:15] Yes - we need to worry about that. The folks at Vox can't see this working as mentioned - ie the emigration to Legoland, etc. So then we think you may be there permanently.
[16:17] Not that that is necessarily a bad thing. There may be long-term benefits to you having a city on our continent. But some may not buy it. We are a small civ, not many cities yet. This is a big step for us.
[16:18] The first thing we will do is try to find new land to settle
[16:18] We'll go for MapMaking, and then build a Galley
[16:18] You can concentrate on other things, while we uncover the map for you
[16:18] If Lego is too far, other lands will be available
[16:18] Your research rate will be awful.
[16:19] Even then - we'll be able to trade with the civs on our old continent
[16:19] Will they trade with you?
[16:19] And will we be an out-cast for saving you?
[16:20] I don't see why for example RP won't trade
[16:20] True
[16:20] We have GS to think about....
[16:20] Why would you be outcast?
[16:20] I sense Neu D and GoW want you out of the game.
[16:21] Out of the continent, rather. They won't go chasing us.
[16:22] Yes - but will it poison our relation with them.
[16:23] Well - what we would do for GoW and ND is try to obstruct Legoland
[16:23] Back to GS - did Lux explan the city situation.
[16:23] What city situation?
[16:23] did Trip explain
[16:23] I heard there is a city on the border of GS and you
[16:24] Is that what you mean?
[16:24] yup - we will need to manage GS' concerns.
[16:24] How is your relation with them?
[16:25] Good now. We have a tech trade arrangement and a border treaty.
[16:25] Great.
[16:25] I personally still don't trust all the egos on that team.
[16:26] Do they know about the situation on our continent?
[16:26] Yes - they have been asking for contact with you before you disappear from the world scene.
[16:27] We are not sure why they are so keen on contact with you. Any ideas?
[16:28] Do they have contact with GoW / RP ?
[16:28] If not, they might want to get it from us
[16:29] Yup. Through us.
[16:29] Hmm. I can't think of a reason. MAYBE maps...?
[16:29] If they have mapmaking or are very near it
[16:29] I'd say you just ask them
[16:30] Ok - so how long do you figure you will need the city.
[16:30] yes - we will do that.
[16:30] Shiber is online...
[16:31] Idea: if GS want maps from us, we'll want a (small) city from them!
[16:31] If we have their city, you can get yours back
[16:31] Or you give ours to GS ...
[16:32] Why would we do that? OUr interest lies in keeping the balance
[16:32] Yes - I know BFM. Just going through all the scenarios, including te scary ones.
[16:32] We couldn't give it, because it contains a palace
[16:32] You would have to walk in
[16:33] Shall I ask Shiber?
[16:33] As I said to Triplast night - if we do this - this will be deal done on trust, and trust alone.
[16:33] Plus: if we do something nasty to you, we are at your mercy
[16:34] no - don't ask Shiber. If GS knows we are chatting about this - well, they sometimes get weird. Shiber I trust though.
[16:34] OK - I won't
[16:34] Will he be able to read what we have been talking about?
[16:35] No.
[16:35] This is a private chat
[16:35] Ok - then let's invite him in - and I will say that we were discussing the Gs contact - and what coild it possible amount to. OK?
[16:35] I can't invite him in, but I can open a channel for us 3
[16:36] ...
[16:36] join the BFM channel
[16:38] OK.
[16:38] ok
[16:38] ...
[16:38] ,,,
[16:40] BFM?
[16:41] yes?
[16:42] ok
[16:42] So - how long do you figure you will need the ciyy
[16:42] depends on a few things
[16:43] how fast we can set sail
[16:43] It is not a bad site - wheat-grassland tile and a fish tile. But the rest is jungle or mountain.
[16:44] So - Ok food production until pop 3. It is fairly far from our capitol, so corruption si high for us. Would be OK for you.
[16:44] then we can grow a settler from it quickly
[16:45] You might want to do a worker first - to clear out some jungle. Then spearman, settler, galley, something like that.
[16:45] and when we get a galley, we can be off
[16:45] yes - you might be right
[16:46] Well, then we need to decide whether you hold on to it until you get set up elsewhere - which would be the safest.
[16:46] yes
[16:46] And even then - what are the longer-term benefits of you having a city on our continent.
[16:47] for us: survival. for you: the fact that we can work together with two UU's, a bit of gold, a bit of science
[16:47] BTW - the town is currently called Dissidentville. Any ideas on a new name. Maybe 'Trust'.
[16:48] What about "Hello GS!" ?
[16:48] or Nomads hideaway.
[16:48] or "Low Profile"
[16:48] Lux On the Move
[16:48] Low profile is good.
[16:48] "Secret Rocket Launching Site"
[16:48] lol
[16:49] Ok - let's go wait for Shiber. i also have work to do back at vox. That is more important right now.
[16:49] OK - see ya in 10 mins?
[16:49] OK.
[17:02] You there?
[17:02] Shiber is
Session Close: Sun Feb 23 17:56:14 2003

------------------------------------------------------------

Session Start: Sun Feb 23 16:35:59 2003
Session Ident: #BFM
[16:35] * Now talking in #BFM
[16:36] -apolyton.net:@#BFM- BigFurryMonster invited BetaHound into channel #BFM.
[16:41] hello
[16:41] Shiber will be here in 15 mins
[16:42] OK - can we go back to the other room for few minutes.
[16:50] Beta will be back at 5 minute intervals.
[16:57] Hello
[16:57] how are we doing?
[17:01] Umm... what is this place?
[17:01] it is a channel that BigFurryMonster opened, for which reason i don't know
[17:01] The reason is to have a chat with some people
[17:01] Tuome - can I ask you to leave, plz?
[17:02] yo
[17:02] Hey
[17:02] whi is tuome
[17:02] who
[17:02] Dunno - I just asked him to leave
[17:03] still here
[17:03] I don't know how to secure a channel. Do you?
[17:03] nope
[17:03] Shiber - can you do it and invite BFM and me.
[17:03] ah - Ok
[17:03] Hi Shiber.
[17:03] Oh - T. is gone
[17:03] as long as noone is here, it doesn't matter
[17:03] Great
[17:04] yes
[17:04] Shiber - how are you?
[17:04] BigFurryMonster, i recommend that you give both BetaHound and myself op status.
[17:04] BetaHound, wonderful
[17:04] Shiber - how do I do that?
[17:04] Before we get ther shiber, I have a question ..
[17:04] ok
[17:04] It was what I wanted to talk about.
[17:04] type /op BetaHound Shiber
[17:05] yeah
[17:05] what does that do. Felt good.
[17:05] You now have a '@' thingy next to your name
[17:05] just gives us equal privileges in this room
[17:05] Oh - oK
[17:05] So my question..
[17:06] Whi is GS so eager to get communications/contact with Lux?
[17:06] be right back
[17:06] Second question - what does afk mean?
[17:07] Away From Keyboard
[17:07] Or 'Kennel' in your case ;-)
[17:07] Thanks. A long mystery solved.
[17:08] I have only been involved in Apolyton and chat room stuff since November, so I an still in a learning mode.
[17:08] i am back
[17:08] BigFurryMonster, BetaHound, before we begin, I'd like to ask,
[17:09] is any of you an official representative of your respective teams?
[17:09] I am.
[17:09] I am VFA for Vox.
[17:09] Voice of foreign affairs.
[17:09] Same as FAM.
[17:10] OK?
[17:10] BetaHound and BigFurryMonster, I would like to note that I am not an official representative of Gathering Storm on this matter.
[17:10] Noted.
[17:10] Everything I do and say represents me and me only.
[17:10] Noted.
[17:11] Are you uncomfortable with this chat?
[17:11] Furthermore, I am not at all certain that continuing this conversation would be regarded as proper practice in the eyes of my colleagues.
[17:11] BetaHound, yes, quite
[17:11] Though, there still might be something that I can help you with, so speak up.
[17:12] Beta has a Q. If you're uncomfortable to answer, just don't
[17:12] OK - I am trying to figure out why GS is so eager to make contact with a soon-to-be dead civilization - ie Lux.
[17:12] * BigFurryMonster disagrees on the 'dead' part
[17:12] eager?
[17:12] i'm surprised to hear that
[17:13] let us refrain from such expressions
[17:13]
[17:13] agreed
[17:13] Yes - I have two PM's - one from nathan - another from zeit. Pleasantly worded, but keen on the contact. Both ackowkedge that Lux will be exiting the world stage soon.
[17:13] BetaHound, in order for you to understand our nature, I would have to answer your question with another question: why is Vox Controli so eager to delay the trade of contact with Lux Invicta to Gathering Storm?
[17:14] or at least it would seem so, since it has been three turns now since we asked for this contact
[17:15] Amongst friends here - we were pitching a deal to Lux that rather than have their gold reservs fall into NeuD's hands, they send it to us before their demise. We felt GS may want to do the same.
[17:15] BetaHound, to be honest, we are simply puzzled that your team chose to delay the passing of this contact.
[17:15] Understand?
[17:15] Interesting you mention that, I have proposed the same deal to my team.
[17:15] it was not accepted by a majority though
[17:16] Shiber - which deal?
[17:16] however, I regard it as highly important to ensure that Lux's funds do not fall to the hands of their enemies
[17:16] But do you understand our point on this?
[17:16] Trip and I agree that we must draw our chequebook soon
[17:16] BigFurryMonster, proposing to your team that if you see that your civilization is about to fall, you will transfer your funds to our civ, instead of letting it fall to the hands of your hated enemies
[17:17] OK. We would need contact for that, indeed
[17:17] Your civ, Shiber?
[17:17] But there will be no need for us if we die completely
[17:18] Yes, Gathering Storm. Not 'my civ' as in the civ I own, but the civ I come from, as in 'my country', 'my school' and so on.
[17:18] You missdmy point.
[17:19] Let me explain. No responses for a second - OK?
[17:19] BigFurryMonster, in any case, you can transfer your funds or part of it to Vox and GS for safekeeping, and should you (hopefully) survive this war, we will return it immediately upon your request
[17:19] ok
[17:20] and then you ask why we would want to delay giving you contact?
[17:21] we did not realize that you would ask Lux for that
[17:21] in any case, GS did not accept my proposal
[17:21] OK.
[17:21] though they may reconsider it now that Vox is in it too
[17:22] sigh...
[17:22] have i missed your point again?
[17:23] no - you would have to be in our shoes living next door to GS to understand. That is not meant as bitter or critical satement, just a fcat of life.
[17:23] fact
[17:24] I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Sorry if I may be slow, or missing out on something here.
[17:25] Ok - but please don't respons for a minute until I say I am finished. Ok.
[17:25] GS and Vox get off to a shaky start...
[17:25] But we reach an agreement on trade and border...
[17:26] GS clearly has the advnatage of more and better land...
[17:26] Vox has the advantage of contact with ethe other continent - and its civs...
[17:26] We agree to not take advantage of our leverage ...
[17:27] Wew have been model partnesr in this deal...
[17:27] Other tan the odd 'honest forgetting' to do things on certain turns...
[17:28] Two players - Diss and myself ... sometimes we miss stuff... honestly ...
[17:28] We have not held anything back...
[17:28] Other than this latest matter of Lux ...
[17:28] And I have explained my reasons why ...
[17:29] And when I do ...
[17:29] i must apologize, i am having severe problems with my computer
[17:29] i will have to restart
[17:29] i'm terribly sorry
[17:29] * BigFurryMonster will wait for you
[17:29] Arghhhhh...
[17:30] Do I sound frustrated BFM?
[17:30] If I do, I apologize.
[17:30] The 'arghhhh' bit? Ehm, yes
[17:30] no - before that.
[17:31] I think we should leave GS out of this until the deal is done.
[17:31] Yes - I figured that not everything is running smoothly
[17:32] You could call that frustrated
[17:32] They approach all negotiations with a 'holier than thou' attitude. It is frustrating.
[17:32] I see.\
[17:33] If it is in their favour - well that's life and we have to live with it. If it is the other way around they squawk about it.
[17:34] Guess that is civ3.
[17:34] After all - it is just a game.
[17:34] It may be diplomacy
[17:34] Or it could be the make-up of their team.
[17:35] All the strategy gurus on one team. Superior attitude and the like. Comes across in the ISDG as well.
[17:35] yes. WHat is with this border thing?
[17:35] I thought you settled it?
[17:36] We have reached an agreement with Gs on the border. You will get the city in the sw, closest to the border. GS has not built on their side yet.
[17:36] Yes - it is settled.
[17:36] Good.
[17:37] You will be expected to respect the agreement as well - but it should not be an issue.
[17:37] Indeed
[17:38] Listen - I should be going. I will PM Shiber and smooth this over.
[17:38] I'm still not clear on why the contact is so important to them.
[17:39] OK - do you have the turn yet?
[17:39] No - still with RP last time I looked - about 30 minutes ago,
[17:39] OK. If we want to act, we must act this turn.
[17:39] I'm not sure how fast ND will attack us
[17:39] We will likely sit on the turn for the better part of the deal while we work this out. Afterall, a civ;s survival is at stake.
[17:40] Oh - if we do it - we do it this turn.
[17:40] Trip was clear about that.
[17:40] Good.
[17:40] I will see you later then, I guess. Hopefully near Dissidentville!
[17:40] hello
[17:41] hello
[17:41] Shiber told me to show up here
[17:41] what's going on?
[17:41] Hi, Ralph
[17:41] Hi sir ralph. I was inquiring as to why GS was so keemn on contact with Lux.

[BigFurryMonster]

Part II:

[17:41] here I am, Shiber
[17:42] welcome back Shiber.
[17:42] thanks sir ralph, for coming so quickly
[17:42] Welcome to my channel ;-)
[17:42] thanks BetaHound
[17:42] unfortunately, i will not be able to continue
[17:42] i'm having severe problems with my computer
[17:42] Neither will Beta, if I understand correctly
[17:43] no -its Ok - I will stay for abit.
[17:43] beta, if lux remains in the game for long, there is no need indeed, but who knows...
[17:43] Ok - understood.
[17:43] We might. Then again, we might not.
[17:45] That was all I was trying to get confrmation on. BFM and I were chatting about stuff, and noted Shiber was around. And ..
[17:45] and what?
[17:45] I asked Shiber if he knew why it was so important to you. But ...
[17:46] I feel bad about it because I think I was making Shiber uncomfortable.
[17:46] But since you are here, let's cut to the chase, shall we..
[17:46] I was pressing for the contact, seeing Luxes possible departure.
[17:47] BFM - are you OK discussing 'it' here.
[17:47] Or do you want to wait for Trip.
[17:48] No problem - go ahead
[17:48] If you want me to go, fine, I have other things to do. It just appeared to me, that my presence was wanted for some reason
[17:48] Ok Sr - are you sitting down ...
[17:48] ok I sit down
[17:49] We are working on a plan that would provide a city to Lux to ensure their survival. It is our present border city with GS. The vox senate is still debating teh issue - but the last time I checked in - the majority was for this.
[17:49] The plan is ...
[17:50] Lux gets time to build a galley and a settler and re-locate in the world.... and ...
[17:50] Legoland is on-side as that is their eventual destination.
[17:51] why bother with a galley, if you could just gift the city?
[17:51] Yes - we gift our city. But then they will want to move from there. Guess they could ask Lego to do the same.
[17:51] * BigFurryMonster thinks SirRalph misunderstood.
[17:52] Lego did not have a suitable city
[17:52] :-(
[17:52] Plus - we do not have contact!
[17:52] Yes - BFM - what's wrong with Lego providing a city once contact is made. Will cost them a settler - but you can pay them back. much safer than trying to sail one over there.
[17:53] Beta: you're correct. Providing we can get contact!
[17:53] Eventually we will.
[17:53] We could send over an empty Galley for that purpose
[17:53] exactly
[17:53] Good idea
[17:54] how many time has lux left at this point?
[17:54] so - Sir ralph - is this going to be OK with GS?
[17:54] 1) We leave our continent for Vox's. 2) We leave Vox's for Lego's.
[17:54] Not much, is my understanding
[17:54] beta: not sure. It has to be discussed and ratified
[17:54] (you can read GS's instead of Vox's if you like ;-)
[17:55] Yes - it is both Gs and Vox continent.
[17:55] Well Sr, we may not have a whole lot of time for this.
[17:55] Ralph: does this answer your Q ?
[17:55] we can discuss that quickly.
[17:56] OK - Dissidentville - on the other side of the mountains is the city in question.
[17:56] or does this have to be decided within this turn?
[17:56] This turn.
[17:56] I know - tell me about it - and we are providing the city...
[17:57] There is one thing I did not tell you yet - Beta: another advantage.
[17:57] It is that we'll be at war with ND for the rest of the game. That will stop them from going to Republic.
[17:57] Via ww?
[17:57] How so?
[17:57] Yes
[17:58] War Weariness.
[17:58] I heard that was de-activated in PTW?
[17:58] afaif, ww does not apply in mp games
[17:58] afaik
[17:58] I also =heard= it, but it was never confirmed
[17:58] Not to my knowledge, at least
[17:59] i will post a discussion thread. hope we can discuss this quickly.
[18:00] Good.
[18:00] if any of you see active GS members in the intersite dg forum, tell them to look in the GS forum in a few minutes (I cant do this)
[18:01] OK...
[18:01] Hello, Eli!
[18:01] I will Pm you SR when Vox has reached its decison. OK?
[18:02] Eli - can you invite BFM to your window. Thanks.
[18:03] Another window?
[18:03] What window?
[18:03] * BigFurryMonster gets curious
[18:05] I put up the thread in the GS forum
[18:05] that's all I can do for now
[18:05] bye, see you later
[18:05] bye
[18:05] Bye, SR
[18:05] Closing this!
Session Close: Sun Feb 23 18:27:31 2003


------------------------------------------------------------


Session Start: Sun Feb 23 18:04:15 2003
Session Ident: #vox-lux
[18:04] * Now talking in #vox-lux
[18:05] Ok, we can talk freely now
[18:05] Good
[18:05] BFM - hang tight for sec. Eli - two seconds in 'Eli'
[18:06] ?
[18:06] Will be 2 minutes.
[18:06] BFM : We need some private talk first.
[18:06] Allright
[18:07] * BigFurryMonster goes to the fridge to get a beer
[18:10] We're back!
[18:10] Hi
[18:11] Who talks?
[18:11] BFM? Where's my beer?
[18:11] Both of us.
[18:11] Who starts talking?
[18:11] I will.
[18:11] K.
[18:12] So while we wait - here's what happened with GS.
[18:12] BFM is prolly stuck in the fridge or something.
[18:12]
[18:12] * BigFurryMonster is back.
[18:13] hi
[18:13] * BigFurryMonster brought beers for all of us
[18:13] hurray!!!
[18:13] OK BFM - we need to start working on some details.
[18:13] Is it OK if I invite Trip?
[18:14] please do if he is here.
[18:14] He's probably coming but go ahead
[18:15] Eli - can you invite Trip?
[18:15] Ok - there is the 150 gold. Thank-you. And we know that is all you will currently have - but waht about down the road...
[18:15] You have the turn??
[18:15] one sec - I will find out.
[18:15] Trip is en route.
[18:16] No -it is still with RP.
[18:16] Hi Trip!
[18:16] greets
[18:16] Ah - since you were talking about 150g
[18:16] RP has had it for 6 hours.
[18:17] Repeating for Trip : BH said "Ok - there is the 150 gold. Thank-you. And we know that is all you will currently have - but waht about down the road..."
[18:17] someone fill me in
[18:17] Yes- but what else down the road. That is what we need to figure out. We want to be freineds for the rest of the game - but in tangible terms, what does that mean for Vox?
[18:17] Ok - Trip - quick update ...
[18:18] BFm and I have been chatting ..
[18:18] so I've heard
[18:18] and we got Shiber from GS involved to answer the question of why GS was so keen for cantact...
[18:18] what was his answer?
[18:18] he was unconfortable with it.. and ...
[18:19] he never really answered the question - nor did Sir Ralph - whi Shiber invited in ...
[18:19] and just as SR got there - BFM's line of - see you near Dissidentville popped up...
[18:19] so ...
[18:19] that's quite odd
[18:20] I filled SR in reagrding the proposal... which is probably for the best ...
[18:20] what did he think of it?
[18:20] He will take it back to discuss at GS...
[18:20] And we need to work out some details here.
[18:20] okay
[18:20] sounds good
[18:20] Wait, guys. I was busy in the last couple weeks. With who Lux is fighting?
[18:21] just woke up, hopefully my brain can handle it
[18:21] ND and GoW
[18:21] THis is not a done deal at Vox - but we are definitely leaning.
[18:21] And what's GS's part?
[18:21] * BigFurryMonster pours his beer over Trip's head
[18:21] They get new neighbours!!!
[18:21] Got it,
[18:21] hehe, thanks
[18:21] They will need to be OK with that.
[18:21] yes, that's probably a good idea
[18:22] do you have any questions I can answer for you now?
[18:22] I really hope to make sure you're not at all skeptical about this
[18:22] I dont think it's they're bussiness. Basically, it's our land under temporary control of someone else.
[18:22] I understand it's quite a trust issue
[18:22] and I don't want Vox to worry
[18:22] Understood. So - what's in it for Vox down the road - in a tangible sense.
[18:22] we're both scientific civs
[18:23] that means 2 free techs
[18:23] You gift us your free tech?
[18:23] yes
[18:23] all Lux needs is Map Making and a city for a period of time
[18:23] then we'll be quite gone
[18:23] Oh we have a better plan btw
[18:24] BFM started to tell me about it I think
[18:24] The Lego plan?
[18:24] Rather than have Lux sail to the new land - yes - lego gifts you a city in teh appropraite place.
[18:24] They will have to be compensated of course.
[18:25] But it is better than the risk of losing a settler at sea.
[18:25] And what is Vox's part in the Lego Plan?
[18:25] that's a good idea
[18:25] We provide the 'refugee camp'.
[18:25]
[18:25] Aha.
[18:25] * BigFurryMonster prefers to call it "Secret Rocket Launching Site"
[18:25] hehe
[18:25] who has the save right now?
[18:26] We gift them Dissidentville this turn. That will be their new capitol.
[18:26] Btw, did you count the time it will take you to also rebuilt the palace in the city you will found later on? You cant gift the capitol city.
[18:26] RP - as of 6 am est.
[18:26] You would have to walk in, Eli
[18:27] Understood.
[18:28] yes
[18:28] declare war and take
[18:28] it
[18:28] so what else do we get out of this? Don't mean to sound merecenary, but those are the questions being asked.
[18:28] being at war with half the world won't be fun though :P
[18:29] You will get all the gold we gift you
[18:29] as long as we can get Map Making
[18:29] BH : Can I interfere for a moment?
[18:29] please
[18:30] BFM has the luxury of time while I have an exam tommorow. So I'll say it bluntly, we want more long term commitments and "payments".
[18:30] BFM->BH
[18:31] basically
[18:31] we will provide you with our treasury, 2 free techs from the scientific trait, any techs we get during our time (1 per 40 turns is MINIMUM), and any maps we acquire
[18:32] BFM and I feel this should be just compensation
[18:32] what is your opinion?
[18:33] My (personal, as of now) opinion is that while what you offer is a fair payment for "renting" you a city for 40 turns... It's not fair enough for saving your ass.
[18:33] it goes without saying that we would be your closest allies
[18:33] keep in mind
[18:34] in an age, when things start to get uglier diplomatically
[18:34] Lux has the most powerful UU in the game
[18:34] and after recent events, we will have a lot of them
[18:34] the diplomatic leverage of 15 Siphais is quite powerful
[18:34] you being our allies would benefit you in the long run more than letting us expire
[18:35] how about future techs?
[18:35] we will be providing you with any techs we research
[18:36] sounds ok - Eli?
[18:36] we can work out a more finite deal later on
[18:36] Can you be more specific?
[18:36] what techs do you plan on researching?
[18:36] which do you want us to research?
[18:36] we shall give you as many of them as we can get done
[18:36] 1 per 40 turns
[18:37] Faster. I suggest you skip a few to leave for us. This we can get cheaper.
[18:37] Understood
[18:37] Since the amount of beakers is affected by the # of civs that have it
[18:37] yes
[18:37] You would not have to waste research time on it, or drive a hard bargain for it
[18:38] And we want an iron-clad declaration of freindship through to the end of the game..
[18:38] of course
[18:38] it would be part of the official contract
[18:38] * BigFurryMonster nods
[18:38] should someone at Vox write it, or shall I?
[18:39] If you could - it would aprrecietade. I have a ton of snow to shovel.
[18:39] I dont understand... Let's say the deal is signed, you find a nice spot and get a civ going. Industrial era arrives and we go for Medicine and Sanitation. You, for example, go for Industrialization. Will you gift it to us?
[18:40] we will gift you 3 techs
[18:40] the way I can calculate things
[18:40] 1 more from the ancient era
[18:40] 1 from our scientific trait
[18:40] 1 from the early industrial
[18:40] BH? Any thoughts.
[18:40] and one from the modern?
[18:41] I can come up with more
[18:41] We have the Sci trait, from which we get 1 tech per era
[18:41] That's 3 techs.
[18:41] We can maybe research one ancient, one medieval, one industrious ourselves
[18:42] Ok - that sounds fair. Also keep in mind that ..
[18:42] 3 is a pretty number... 10 is prettier.
[18:42] if we are frineds, we will want you to be reasonably strong...
[18:42] so we will be trading techs with you as well...
[18:42] Eli - if we can get to 10, we will!
[18:43] I don't think anyone has researched 10 techs in the game so far ;P
[18:43] or even half that many
[18:43] hehe
[18:43] understood BH
[18:43] Listen guys - I gott ago - can't let my wife shovel the driveway by herself.
[18:43] * BigFurryMonster wonders if all techs came out of nowhere
[18:43] 10 - Or only part of them, and the others in their equivalent in money.
[18:43] Send her my greetings
[18:43] I'm talking about the long run.
[18:43] hehe
[18:44] I need to go in 5 mins as well
[18:44] okay, it seems as though things are coming to an end here
[18:44] any final thoughts from either team?
[18:44] Trip - draft it up - send it to me. we will discuss later today. OK. We will not play the turn until we have reached an agreement. OK?
[18:45] * BigFurryMonster is OK
[18:45] okay
[18:45] I'll see what I can cook up
[18:45] OK
[18:45] I'm going too.
[18:45] OK - guys - I am out of here. Thanks BFM for the long chat.
[18:46] Thank you all
[18:46] And thans Trip and Eli,
[18:46] yes, indeed
[18:46] * Trip nods
[18:46] bye
[18:46] farewell
[18:46] Bye!
Session Close: Sun Feb 23 18:47:27 2003