The Civ Files: Glory of War

[BigFurryMonster]

Starting this to symbolize a new start with GoW.

We have the deal: Maths for Myst (both as soon as possible).

GoW thinks ND is going to attack RP. They are very jealous on the amount of land RP has.

[Jon Shafer]

Any possibility to find confirmation on the NDE VS RP conflict?

[BigFurryMonster]

I wouldn't know where to look for that information.

[WarriorPoet]

I thought we were researching maths...aren't they also researching maths? How will we get mysticism? Isn't RP researching mysticism? What does RP want for mysticism? HBR right? If I recall correctly, GoW will allow us to trade HBR to RP?

Please succinctly state the answers to the above, right here. Thank you.

[BigFurryMonster]

Check the trades thread. We're getting Myst from Vox (if they do not back out). RP is (very probably) researching MapMaking. They have Myst already (from a hut). We will only be able to trade HBR to RP if GoW does not. If we trade, it will be HBR for Writing. They are currently fighting with RP about this (and also about their warriors).

[WarriorPoet]

Okay, thanks...I got it now...so complicated, when you get humans involved...

[Admiral PJ]

ghengis said to me he things ND want war with RP, though like i said to him I thought RP mostly had just jungle land.. according to him they have the best land on the continent.

Its highly likely GoW are trying to get us to want to attack RP also, and try not to lose any of their troops in our wars.
Perhaps GoW would rather not ally with us against NDE, unless we pay them a lot (which i'm not prepared to do)

[CiverDan]

So our tech strat is hinging on something that is out of our hands...RP's dispute with GoW. Our best hope is this dispute will go on long enough that RP will trade with us since they would rather get HBR sooner rather that later. Only mention ND attack rumour if secrecy of message is guaranteed. I'd hate for that message to get to ND and have them get more upset at US.

[Jon Shafer]

In my talks with GF, he was definitely trying to turn us against RP. The whole NDE wanting to attack RP is probably a front, and I wouldn't trust this assumption until it can be proven...

[WarriorPoet]

I thought GF was talking about land north of their current holdings being the best in the land...

Why isn't anyone considering a more sinister possability?

Namely, that GoW and NDE may be plotting against us, by attempting to weaken the ties between us and RP???

[Admiral PJ]

MY discussions with GoW

Session Start: Tue Feb 04 23:08:02 2003
Session Ident: GhengisF - arb
PJ - when did you last talk to NDE?
PJ - we're thinking of seeing what they say,
GhengisF - About 3-4 days ago
PJ - you'd still be interested in supporting us if we went to war with NDE, yes?
GhengisF - It was a quick email he sent me when he sent the game save.
PJ - oh, did they sound confident?
GhengisF - Right now, I think we should concentrate on moving south to hold Roleplay in check.
PJ - ah, we can trade info on NDE
PJ - RP are not a serious threat to us
GhengisF - They will be, they have claimed more land than our 3 teams combined.
PJ - its better to cook the small fish before the big fish, or fry even
PJ - NDE are easier to control
PJ - do you know if NDE have horses?
GhengisF - Roleplay strategy is to be the puppetmasters. They want to keep the northern
civs plotting against one another while they claim all of the south and the luxuries.
PJ - we know they have linked with the southern iron
PJ - to at least one city and their capital
GhengisF - Yes, My latest info says they haven't linked to the horses yet
PJ - But you may be trying to psychologically persuade that RP are what you, in reality
are.. maybe your the puppetmaster?
PJ - but they will do soon?
PJ - Do you have more info about RP then ? we might be willing to ally with you against
them in the future
PJ - but for now we like RP
GhengisF - I'm not a puppetmaster, I simply try to find what is in the best interests of
both of our teams.
PJ - have you read the book the puppetmasters?
GhengisF - RP has failed to honor THREE agreements with us. They are completely
untrustworthy in my team's opinion. If they haven't failed to honor an agreement with your
team its jsut a matter of time.
PJ - it was the basis for the body snatcher film
GhengisF - No
PJ - anyway, if you have evidence of this we'd be interested, which 3 aggreements were
these?
PJ - we see they have writing ..
GhengisF - Yes, we have evidence, do you want me to have Panzer pm it to you?
PJ - yes please,
PJ - I think RP sometimes abuse their power..
PJ - and don't take agreements as seriouisly as they should
GhengisF - i can email you an email from Togas where he agrees to teh tech alliance to
trade Writing for Horseback and then an email we he refuse to do so. The others were done
officially through Panzer.
PJ - more importantly, we need to be able to trust GoW.. but so far you appear reliable
PJ - peter@artpac.demon.co.uk
PJ - is my mail account, no limits on it
PJ - RP is south of us, would u be willin to pay for a ROP deal through our lands?
PJ - to get to RP?
PJ - we can establish a joint embassy, each paying half of the setup costs
PJ - you have writing, yes?
GhengisF - I don't want any of RP as it would be undefendable for us. We want to help you
and ND take the land and free up more norther area for our team.
PJ - we will not be allying with ND
GhengisF - NO, they refused to honor that agreement twice.
PJ - they have insulted our great leader TRIP
PJ - how is your research doing? at least we 2 can trade sciences without any desceit
PJ - we have been waiting on RP for a trade
GhengisF - They said they would give us Writing after I warriors began moving north. Then

they didn't and said they woulf give it to us after our warrior passed the desert, then the
didn't and said they would give it to us after our warriors were in ND's area.
PJ - if you declared war on RP , we would assist you.. but we are not interested yet
PJ - You wish to punish RP?
PJ - if you paid us we could attack RP
GhengisF - We are not in a position to fight a war with anyone, all of our units have been
built for defensive values as we are unsure whether Lux or ND may actually attack us.
Roleplay has been saying both of your teams are planning to attack us.
PJ - We would rather fight with ND first,
PJ - Our barracks has nearly finished a veteran warrior,
PJ - so we are happy with our millitary buildup
PJ - but we would like to capture slave workers from other territories,
PJ - are you not satisfied with our peace deal?
PJ - If your units helped defend our hillly western border in the near battle with NDE,
PJ - we would remember your assitance for many centuries and repay you
PJ - We ought to concentrate on building an army to annihilate NDE's civ, leaving them
cowering for mercy and giving us all their techs
GhengisF - Why would wenot be satisfied with the peace deal? We are currently trying to
build a ring of fortified settlements around our capital.
PJ - Some of LI distrust GoW, but I think you are not the barbarians you appeared as when
first contact happened
PJ - Give me reasons for us to trust you.. make further trade deals
PJ - Hey: are we still on for the mysticism for maths deal?
GhengisF - Yes
PJ - nice
PJ - construction's forts would also be useful for our defences
PJ - do you wish to trade maps with us?
PJ - ND are nearing completion of Maths, yes?
GhengisF - I'm not sure I haven't had a progress report on their tech position in awhile.
PJ - well I suggest you start researching writing, in case that deal falls through
PJ - i will push for us to hurry up research on maths, which is a project just in case the

trade for maths from you falls through
GhengisF - I emailed you the email where Togas first said his team was onboard to trade

Writng for Horseback Riding. I will have to get Panzer to send you the pm where they refuse
to trade.
PJ - If you can persuade the NDE to talk with us, and make peace we might not make war with

them, and help you in other areas
GhengisF - Sounds good.
PJ - thanks for the mail,
PJ - some of our domestic ministers feel we should give NDE a second chance
GhengisF - Gotta go.
PJ - but our leader trip wants war
PJ - ok, bye


This was my discussion on the 4th of Feb 2003, 11pm GMT time with Gods of War(? name).
ignore any extra carriage return line spaces

I tried to do the good cop bad cop approach, making him think we might go around to his point of view in confronting RP.

WE MUST be very careful our war plans with NDE don't mean a war against GoW too, our new colonies are new GoW.

Either we:
1. backtrack and try and not get into war with NDE, who definitely seem to be trading with GoW and consider joining these 3 to go to war or be neutral towards Roleplay.
Good points: We gain lands along the south west coast, making us a continous coastal border. We don't have a threat from NDE who are very near us and can do us lots of damage, ESpecially if GoW help them. NDE have powerful millitary (needs confirming from F3 screen) and we may not be able to defeat it for a long time.
We can help our friends Vox by attacking GS across the water from RP's lands.

Bad Points: We have little friendship with NDE so any treaties will be tough to make, we'd need to rebuild trust. NDE could backstab us, and ambush our cities.
Our reasonable relationship with RP would be damaged, even if we just broke off relations.
We would be helping NDE, who most likely later would take revenge on us and crush us.

Option 2.: We go to war with NDE, and try and diplomatically stop GoW helping them, though gow appear fairly weak . We'd need RP to help us, and Vox (if they get a good fleet running and can keep GS in check, or not be fighting GS at all). I'm hopeful we can get GoW to agree to war with NDE, if we help defend their borders- they appear scared of NDE.. we need to point out they would do well to control NDe's cities which are not far from Imperial City.

Good Points: We can capture the nearby NDE cities which are in our way and taking all our RE cities lands.
If NDE are destroyed we can settle all the central continent westwards and east, and block off other civs.
NDE already don't like us, and a war wouldn't damage any reputation as we both distrust one another.
We would be able to push GoW into a corner and get them to be a slave to our Roman Empire, and would limit the vast growth of RP.

Bad points: We don't have a strong enough army to take gow and nde alone, even with nde we would have to be lucky to win a war outright.


I suggest we continue with option 2, conflict with NDE, but still need to talk to them first to gain info about GoW and RP as well as nde's strengths

See Togas-GoW's email next.

AdmiralPJ

[Admiral PJ]

Subject: Ancient Age Tech Chart and Coordination of Research.
To: Jason Farber ,
Florian Borchert ,
Aro GoW ,
Hot_Enamel GoW ,
Panzer32 GoW , UnOrthOdOx GoW ,
Arnelos Roleplay , Dejon Roleplay
From: Tom Ogas
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:00:43 -0800

Jason et al,

This is a fine idea and my team is on board, but it's going to need a lot of compromise and trust to
pull off. We're going to need to work out some additional terms about the minimum level of research
allowed, trade schemes, and so forth.

We have already planned to do mapmaking next. So the Warmongers should choose another path.
So long as everyone keeps up an even research rate, it won't matter that teams finish techs before
others or that teams are researching a longer or shorter tech, as they will be giving the tech away
and starting on another one as soon as it is discovered.

Is Lux Invicta in on this arrangement?

--Togas

--- Jason Farber wrote:
> ND just informed me that they are now interested in
> the tech sharing idea (first email I had gotten from
> them in a while I was beginning to get the idea they
> had cut off diplomatic relations with me)
>
> Here is the chart with the techs everyone is
> researching now and what they would like to research
> next. I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by
> sending this as I don't see how this is going to
> destroy anyone's gameplan.
>
> ND has stated they wish to research Mathematics next.
> As my team researched the cheapest tech of the lot we
> would like to research Mapmaking to make up for it so
> that we are contributing our full share.
>
> Roleplay is researching the most expensive tech so I
> woudl not have a problem with them researching one of
> the lower cost ones.
>
> This is not an Official Diplomatic message, just a
> message to start some organization so that we can
> start to get on the same page so to speak.
>
> It is my philosophy that this tech coordination in no
> way affect diplomatic or political discussions. If
> one civ declares war on another civ so be it, but the
> tech thing continues. If Lux and ND go to war
> (example only, not trying to start a war) then Lux
> will still get the research ND did and vice versa it
> will simply be transferred through a non-aligned
> party. What are your teams views on this? I am going
> to try to get a consensus from my team.
>
> I also envision that immediately upon researching your
> assigned tech you give it to the other teams. This
> would eliminate the desire of one team to choose a
> specific tech for a Wonder and hold on to it to get an
> advantage over the other three.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/pjpeg name=AncientTechs.jpg
--------


GoW Ghengisfarb sent me this email , that togas had sent him previously.
As in my previous message, this is meant to proove that RP are liers and disreputable.
Panzer should be sending more info about how RP have been being lying and not gone through with agreements.
RP have not traded writing with GOW , despite promises made by RP, and RP do have writing i think.


We ought to discuss with RP the allegations GoW made against it, perhaps to put more pressure on RP to be closer allies with us.
RP might be important allies for us, they are not perfect, but what has everyone else found about RP's honour?
It is probably good RP are not helping GoW and being a problem for them, as we don't want the others to get along.

Perhaps we can let NDE and RP go to war, and stay neutral.. then when one side starts to lose ground, we go on in and attack the weaker side with our fresh troops to easily take some nice lands.

I need input as to any errors i've made about our situations..

Admiral of the High Canoe fleet of Lux invicta
If god wanted us to swim , he'd have given us gills.

[BigFurryMonster]

Ghengis just told me:

He (PJ) told me there would be no deal for Wtiting and that we would have to research it ourselves if we wanted it.
...
since PJ is our official ambassador and he told no we are just going to go with the latest position stated by Lux.

and

ND is going to have to expand in your direction as that is the only free land left, I figure they will have to start settling the hills to their east now.

[Jon Shafer]

Important thread update:

I've smoothed things out with GoW after talking with GF for a while. He has some gross misconceptions about our intentions, so I corrected him. We are at (or nearly at) where we were about a week ago with them.

New info I've acquired:

- Currently, GoW greatly favors NDE over us at the moment. This is due to the diplomacy situation, which I've talked about in another thread. However, I've worked things out with GF, so this should change soon.

- GoW has contact with Vox, and discovered us getting Mysticism from them. I admitted to this, because Vox will tell them anyways, and it's best that we don't ruin our reputation and lie about such things. However, they still intend to trade us Math for Mysticism, so we'll have to keep on talking with them to make sure that the deal goes through fine.

- GF said that GoW and RP are "on the verge of a state of war." This can work to our advantage. The HBR for Writing deal has nearly fallen through again, and things are usually tense state between them.

- Most important of all:
I started discussing the prospects of teaming up to destroy NDE with GF, and he was receptive the the possibility. I offered them most of the NDE land (which we don't need anyways) on a map I whipped together (which I'll post later... it included most of the NDE territory aside from their city which is next to Regio, excluding much of the jungle, which we can use later on), and he said the deal was definitely "workable". They will send us a counter-offer back relatively soon.

Chat transcript:

Session Start: Sat Feb 08 19:19:18 2003
Session Ident: GhengisFarb
[Trip] okay
[Trip] anyways
[GhengisFarb] What was with whole war thing?
[Trip] I'm sorry about that
[Trip] I have NO clue where that came from...
[Trip] I was talking with your ambassador about that
[GhengisFarb] PJ just flat out said "Trip wants to go to war with your team". N0, preamble or nothing.
[Trip] why do you think BFM and I have been doing all of the diplomacy :P
[Trip] I swear on my honor that I never said that, and don't believe that
[GhengisFarb] All I know is that he said he was the OFFICIAL ambassador and all of a sudden all treaties and negotiations went in a completely different direction.
[Trip] he hasn't been around for a while and really doesn't have any idea what's going on
[Trip] he's 'officially' our foreign minister, but he hasn't been around for at least a month
[Trip] I have no idea why he went off and started discussing things with you
[Trip] don't tell him I told you, but disregard everything he says to you :P
[GhengisFarb] Is there anychance we can get an official pm describing your current diplomatic status to us regarding a state of war, Mysticism, and Writing?
[Trip] of course
[Trip] I can assure you that our stance is the same as it has been
[Trip] and apologize for this situation
[GhengisFarb] We thought we had an agreement for Mathematics for Mysticism but have received offers from two other civs in case it falls through.
[Trip] that deal is still on, as well
[GhengisFarb] Good, will you have it in 2 turns?
[Trip] we should have it very soon
[Trip] with 3 I think
[GhengisFarb] I am assuming you are getting it from Vox?
[Trip] yep
[Trip] I'll have BFM send you an official PM when I see him next time
[GhengisFarb] Vox said they would have it next turn.
[Trip] clearing this up
[Trip] we'll have it next turn then
[Trip] like I said, disregard everything PJ said
[GhengisFarb] Will do.
[Trip] like I said, I'm sorry about this
[Trip] all of the sudden I saw jdjdjd come in and say that we were going to declare war on you guyus
[Trip] guys
[Trip] BFM and I were irate :\
[GhengisFarb] jdjdjd came into your forum?
[Trip] er, panzer I mean
[Trip] sorry, I'm mixing up ambassadors :P
[GhengisFarb] Oh, I was very confused. : o
[Trip] LoL
[Trip] yeah, sorry about that
[GhengisFarb] i can Just see your ambassador stating "Roleplay declares war on GoW" and us and roleplay being completely lost/
[Trip] LoL
[Trip] yeah, like I said, completely disregard
[GhengisFarb] Do you have any idea when you are getting Writing?
[Trip] not sure
[Trip] maybe after getting math from you guys
[Trip] we still have no idea what's going on with you and RP :P
[GhengisFarb] That makes two teams that don't have an idea, mine and yours.
[Trip] so you haven't traded then?
[GhengisFarb] No
[Trip] hehe
[Trip] PJ told me that you had
[Trip] :\
[Trip] I can only imagine what other kinds of quality information he's passed around o_o
[GhengisFarb] I asked PJ what you wanted for Writing and he told me the only way our team would get Writing is if we researched it ourselves because neither Lux or Roleplay was going to trade it to us.
[Trip] o_O
[Trip] wtf?
[GhengisFarb] Exactly, it was statements like that that made us believe you and roleplay had signed a military allinace to take us out.
[Trip] geeze, the damage is even worse than I thought
[Trip] no wonder you guys were upset with us
[GhengisFarb] There wasn't ANY insinuation it was stated flat out just like I just typed.
[Trip] is there anything else he told you?
[GhengisFarb] Let's see the research Writing ourselves, and the Trip wants to go to war thing are about it I think.
[Trip] awesome
[Trip] :P
[GhengisFarb] I didn't sense much "love" coming form PJ. 0_o
[GhengisFarb] from
[Trip] LoL
[Trip] he might have been drunk
[Trip] he's been known to do that from time to time
[GhengisFarb] It wasn't at all what I had expected when he said he wanted to chat.
[Trip] again, like I said, completely disregard what he said, and I apologize for the situation
[GhengisFarb] That's okay, I couldn't comment much as I was in shock through most of the discussion.
[Trip] well, I'm glad we got this sorted out
[Trip] please pass everything on to your team
[GhengisFarb] Me too.
[Trip] I don't want them thinking unkindly of us unfairly :\
[GhengisFarb] i will post it tonight.
[Trip] we tried to go out of our way to give you Writing, but the situation seems weird, so we'll just leave that be for now and look for another way
[GhengisFarb] okay
[Trip] do you have any clues as to what ND is up to?
[Trip] we've seen a lot of forces moving around, and their large cities lead me to believe that they're building up a large army
[GhengisFarb] You can tell that from the Military Advisor screen. :P
[Trip] ?
[GhengisFarb] Roleplay has cut them off from building any new cities in the south.
[Trip] our program to build a force of over a dozen veteran horsemen began a few turns ago
[Trip] we get the feeling that ND is up to no good
[GhengisFarb] That will help, but your horse resouce is probably the first thing ND would take.
[Trip] we tried moving scouts ADJACENT to their border and they threatened us with a PM...
[Trip] yes
[Trip] Regio is very very heavily defended though
[GhengisFarb] It's right next to their city and they practictly have a road right up to it.
[GhengisFarb] Fabio?
[Trip] LoL
[Trip] our city, Regio
[GhengisFarb] Fabio
[GhengisFarb] That how's it pronouced in our language.
[Trip] ahhh
[Trip] wonderful :P
[Trip] may have to rename that then :P
[Trip] at this point, what is YOUR personal stance on who to favor, ND or Lux?
[Trip] I'm sure your team is upset with us, so I won't even bother to ask
[Trip] since they're unaware of the correct situation
[GhengisFarb] Actually, I am pretty neutral right now, there have been some good arguments that your team is trying to box us in while Roleplay boxes ND in.
[Trip] that was the only place we had a new city to go :P
[Trip] we have hills to the south, and lots and lots of plains
[GhengisFarb] There is grassland to the south.
[Trip] the corruption would be awful
[Trip] it's over 3 times as far away as our next city :P
[GhengisFarb] We don't have any other options though, as the game won't allow us to build cities on coastal and sea tiles.
[Trip] hehe, right
[Trip] I'll be back in about 20 minutes, will you still be around?
[Trip] I have a few other things I'd like to discuss with you
[GhengisFarb] Probably
[Trip] okay, great
[Trip] I'll be back in a little bit then
[GhengisFarb] okay
[Trip] alright, I'm back
[Trip] you were here 8 minutes ago :P
[Trip] I know you exist :P
[GhengisFarb] i am a figment of your imagination
[Trip] ah, not again
[Trip] that's what BFM told me also
[Trip] anyways
[Trip] back to business for a bit
[GhengisFarb] I thought we had pretty much ironed things out?
[Trip] just a few other things I'd like to discuss
[GhengisFarb] okay
[Trip] like I mentioned earlier, we have reason to believe that ND may go to war within the near future
[Trip] we were wondering under what terms you would be willing to support us in this
[GhengisFarb] In an attack against ND?
[Trip] in a war
[Trip] either defensive up to about 20 turns into the future
[Trip] or offensive after that
[GhengisFarb] Right now, we don't have any extra units outside of the defensive ones in our cities, it will be awhile before we have some units as we are trying to keep pace with Roleplay and haven't connected to Horses yet.
[Trip] we've connected recently, like I said
[Trip] in about 20 turns we should have about 8 horsemen
[Trip] we would, of course, make the war worth your while
[GhengisFarb] If you wish to make a deal for us as Mercenaries you should send it to Panzer via pm, he's been waitring for an offer.
[Trip] I'd think of it more of a war for friendship with benefits
[Trip] we would give you the majority of ND territory, and take very little for ourselves
[Trip] our future expansion is to the south
[GhengisFarb] Do you have a map proposal?
[Trip] I can whip one up in just a few minutes
[GhengisFarb] That would work, we have several negotiations going on right now.
[Trip] negotiations?
[GhengisFarb] Not military, mostly tech, etc.
[Trip] okay
[Trip] just wondering
[Trip] making sure you weren't splitting up our land with Roleplay or anything
[GhengisFarb] Roleplay takes for ever to negotiate with, but that's an advatage for everyone else.
[GhengisFarb] Roleplay is on the verge of a state of war with us right now.
[Trip] really?
[Trip] how is that possible?
[GhengisFarb] Our teams don't like each other at all. Kinda like Muslims and Christiians.
[Trip] ahhh
[Trip] just some differences eh
[Trip] we've heard you got them really irate with your scouts
[GhengisFarb] They were just born irate.
[Trip] haha
[Trip] you should see ND when they're upset
[Trip] when they think they have a reason to be mad they really unleash
[GhengisFarb] Roleplay is like a woman with PMS
[Trip] LoL
[Trip] what are they so upset about?
[GhengisFarb] This whole continent is theirs and our 3 teams are infesting it from their view.
[Trip] how arrogant :P
[GhengisFarb] :P
[Trip] hehe
[Trip] I almost have a map ready
[Trip] I'm DCCing the map
[Trip] you still there? :P
[GhengisFarb] yep, is the map done?
[Trip] I was going to DCC it to you
[Trip] o_o
[GhengisFarb] What is DCC
[Trip] are you using mIRC?
[GhengisFarb] no java
[Trip] ahhhh...
[Trip] okay, that explains it then
[Trip] do you have any messengers?
[Trip] ICQ, AIM, MSN, etc.
[GhengisFarb] no,
[Trip] okay, I'll email it then
[GhengisFarb] You could email it to me.
[GhengisFarb] hehe
[Trip] :P
[Trip] address?
[GhengisFarb] GhengisFarb@yahoo.com
[Trip] okay
[Trip] just a second
[Trip] senteded
[Trip] whenever it gets there
[GhengisFarb] I'll check
[GhengisFarb] I will tell you this, of the map we've explored all of the Luxuries and resources have been on the coast south of ND, and there hasn't been anythingon your side except for 1 silk and 1 gem
[Trip] just a rough estimate for now
[Trip] this continent has quite a few luxuries
[Trip] giving you many of them wouldn't hurt us much, as long as we could trade
[Trip] what do you think of my rough proposal?
[GhengisFarb] I will have to discuss it with my team, but they were wanting that northermost ND city.
[Trip] as do we
[Trip] it's far too close to our other city
[Trip] unless it could be disbanded and moved elsewhere
[GhengisFarb] That's what we had planned
[Trip] ahhh
[Trip] that could be work-able
[Trip] however, as it stands the city is far too close to our current one
[Trip] we'd be willing to pull the border back to the river in that case
[GhengisFarb] That may prove workable
[Trip] 5 or 6 tiles or so
[Trip] I tried to make the river the border in the south
[Trip] another reason to give you most of the ND land is so that one day, when the time comes, we may unite against Roleplay
[Trip] if that ever becomes necassary, you having access to them is good :P
[GhengisFarb] I gotta go to bed, I have drill in the morning but will post your proposal in our forum
[Trip] okay, great
[Trip] what do you think of it?
[GhengisFarb] I think it will be edited and a counter offer sent back.
[Trip] hehe
[Trip] keep in mind we're already offering 4/5 of their territory
[Trip] but what do you think of the idea of teaming up against ND? Is it workable under current circumstances?
[GhengisFarb] Yes, it is workable.
[Trip] great
[Trip] sounds good then
[Trip] I'll let you go to bed then, after you post everything
[Trip] and I shall as well
[GhengisFarb] good night
[Trip] 'Til lata

[BigFurryMonster]

Good work. Let's see how things work out.