Roleplay Alliance Proposal...

[BigFurryMonster]

To make sure they will build up some defense against ND. Driving a wedge between them seems to be to our advantage.

[Jon Shafer]

There seems to be a precarious balance on our continent.

GoW to the north, pinned in like us. ND is scrunched against the coast with poor land, us to the east, GoW to the north, and a forceful Roleplay to the south.

We have much to fear from each of them long-term. ND will need somewhere to expand, as will GoW. Roleplay will become a superpower before too long I predict. They have an entire half continent to themselves.

We must be wary of all of our neighbors...

[BigFurryMonster]

I got this message from jdjdjd. They want to keep more options open. I am afraid they spoke with GoW a bit too much. Let's keep a close eye on both.

Any ideas for a response?

Minister BigFurryMonster,

I have spoken to our Grand and Illustrious Despot, Togas, and he wishes that I clarify the following aspects of the agreement. Note: those as[ects not mentioned are agreeable to us.

quote:
* We will trade Horseback Riding (from LI) for Writing (from RP). This will be done as soon as RP has obtained Writing, which will be in about 12 turns from now.


While we agree this is a good idea, we can not commit definitively until we have Writing.

quote:
* LI will research Mysticism; RP will research another tech (possibly MapMaking) for those to be traded.


We will research Mapmaking, and LI Mysticism. We will have to clarify this trade when research is complete, as many variables can come into play.
____

Due to the many variables that will come into play over the turns leading to the discovery of all the techs involved in both aspects of the agreement, we feel neither LI or RP can commit to the trades mentioned specifically. We do want to maintain an open dialog with regards to tech trading and other matters with LI, and will always seek such trades once the techs are in hand. And should all things remain equal, the trades mentioned are ones we would complete with you. However, specific details should be worked out once the techs are available. I hope this is agreeable to you.

Please let me know if you have any questions or have anything further to discuss. Thank you for your trustworthyness and friendship.

Your humble servant,

jdjdjd - Ambassador to The Ottoman Empire from España

[CiverDan]

That meetings seems to have gone very well. As far as tech trades. We do have to be open to variables, with NDE as a wild card in this and the slim (but possibility nonetheless) that there are other civs on this landmass. We dont want the entire trading plan to fall apart due to one team getting one tech from another source.

The two things we really have to watch for: NDE researching techs and trading them first, and GoW getting techs from meeting another civ on their continent.

[Jon Shafer]

I think we may have been a little naive.

From talks with Ghengis Farb, I know for a fact that Roleplay has given away knowledge of our alliance. GF has stated that RP has "tried to pressure us with by claiming they can bring Lux into a war against us", and that they should beware because "Roleplay says that Lux will back them up no matter what". Obviously, GF couldn't simply be making this up (how could he?), which means that RP must have given the info away. Some ally eh?

Roleplay has full knowledge of Vox, their location and their situation, even including their feelings towards GS. I saw Togas and Jon Miller talking last night about it.

I think we can trust Vox and GoW right now. ND will be an enemy, and RP is slipping in my mind...

[Admiral PJ]

There are probably some huts arounnd still, which may give techs. If someone gets some galley ships, then may be able to find some islandswith huts etc. Trading maps would be useful anyhow, but we seem to have more important things to do first.

I wouldn't trust Ghengis or GoW too much.

[CiverDan]

Yes. The fact that RP gave away knowledge of the alliance is more troubling now. It clearly like they are trying to drive a wedge between us and GoW. With the ultimate goal of causing a war between us and GoW, quite possibly with NDE joining against us. Meanwhile, they could then decide just to let us fight while they build their southern empire. End result: we are fighting a 2v1 war with us being the one, while RP builds enough cities and military to prevent anyone else on the continent from attacking them later. Bad Bad Bad. The fact that they are unwilling to commit to another tech deal until the current tech trade is researched also tells me they are possibily engaging is other tech deals like us.

[BigFurryMonster]

Fortunately, we also have good contacts with GoW, so the situation you describe need not happen.

[WarriorPoet]

I have no problem with the supposed leak of our alliance. This will bolster our position and give our potential enemies pause.

Also, who cares if they are trading tech...wouldn't we do the same thing?

GoW and RP no doubt have other alliances.

[BigFurryMonster]

If they trade techs with each other (a perfectly natural thing to do, unless you've already promised a tech to someone else) we miss out. So - we care about it.

[WarriorPoet]

Right...but who are we to say they can't do it? They have an agenda with as much right as ours. As long as they will still trade the techs we want with us, then does it matter? Did we have a ligitimate contract with them that forbade them from tech trading? It's our inability to explore and find new techs that is holding us back. We should all realize why we are pinned in. It's a geo-political reality that we have to deal with.

It's also a ligitimate reason for War-mongering aka self preservation.

[BigFurryMonster]

It does matter. The more trades we can make ourselves, the more profit we make. Either by trades like the one we have with Vox (gold per turn), or by not needing to spend money on science (like we have now). Every trade between two other civs diminishes this advantage.

We cannot, of course, forbid any civ to trade with third parties, no matter the contract we have. We can, however, keep a closer contact with every civ that others do. In this way, we'll appear more friendly and the civs will be more likely to trade with us.

We do not have an inability to explore, IMHO. The continent is not bigger than it is. We don't have ships yet.

We also do not have an inability to find new techs. True, our science rate is 0%, but we're in a very clever trade program that gives us the techs no slower than we could have researched them.

Are we pinned in? Yes, maybe. This is due to geographic reasons, IMHO.

Conflict will erupt, since other civs also feel they are pinned in. I say - as soon as we have settled our land - build up the military and wait for Sipahi units to appear.

I hope I have understood you correctly. Please share your views on this!

[Admiral PJ]

Maybe we can make a deal with RP or others relating to who to trade with or not.
We could say if they trade techs with NDE or our enemies we won't trade with them anymore, and may look upon this as a hostile agressive act.
In some cases it might be good to give others techs early to get on their good side, this stops others trading techs with them , which makes them dislike us and they 3rd party gets more from our 'friends'

[BigFurryMonster]

I will put up a new thread for the trading with RP.