Announcement

**Zero** · January 9, 2003, 00:28

Looks good except I want to calrify III. before signing my name under it. Just in case, there's misinterpretation of words by us and them.

We might want to break out a little bit of technicality on them to show them we are concerned with some loopholes that may occur with this one, but at the same time dont look so picky about it. We can say like, "According to statement III, just what kind of deal with other civ constitutes assiting, plotting etc? What defined as hostile manner? Hostile intention to RP or all teams? (which would mean alliance is null in case we plot with GoW to attack NDE or something like that)

Maybe I'm looking into it too much, RP is great team and all. But Togas is a lawyer.

I doubt they will intentionally leave openings for future.... but just in case. At least lets let them know that agreement isnt 100% clear. If we at least say something like, "lets try to not complicate this too much, and clarify few points" ow then they will look bad later if they attempt to worm out of the agreement thru such trivial technical matters.

**statusperfect** · January 9, 2003, 09:14

It should be a permanent agreement that expires 20 turns after one country cancels it. Makes things much more easy.

**WarriorPoet** · January 9, 2003, 09:40

III should read against either of the alliance parties. Parties meaning the Ottomans and Spain.

By agreeing not to invade each other in a hostile manner, does this exclude scouting? Is it only hostile if we attack a Spanish unit/improvement?

We should build an embassy with them and set up a right of passage agreement.

**Admiral PJ** · January 11, 2003, 16:30

As long as we have a get out clause.. and can leave the alliance quite quickly , if RP become lying, warmongering people who we dislike, or if they become too powerful and take all the land.

Talking about RP's clause IX:
GoW seemed to know of our alliance plans, maybe RP didn't mean to give the info away, but if our spies find evidence RP told of the alliance, we could ask for compensation from them.. we need to tell them our complaints at least. Mitchell of RP and maybe some others aren't convinced of our alliance I think, it would be useful to have a joint war against some other civ(s) or some other way for usto build trust.

I suggest we let them make an embassy in our city first, then they will have to pay for it, and we will get an embassy for 'free' . If they don't do this we can see if we can afford it. It dosen't matter who does the embassy, you just get a cheap look at the enemies capital, which won't show much early on.
We could split the cost for embassies with them, and share capital city info. :doitnow:

When is this RP meeting taking place?

**BigFurryMonster** · January 16, 2003, 05:02

Did we sign this or not?

**WarriorPoet** · January 16, 2003, 09:37

Good question...Trip?

**BigFurryMonster** · January 16, 2003, 15:33

We are going to finalize it.

**BigFurryMonster** · January 16, 2003, 15:39

This was sent to Roleplay:

Greetings, Togas, Despot of España !

Let me introduce myself: I am BigFurryMonster, Minister of the Interior and Trade of Lux Invicta under President Trip.

Trip has sent me to you with a special mission, which is threefold:

1) To say 'Hello'! to you and your fellow Citizens;

2) To finalize the Alliance proposal written by jdjdjd of España;

3) To open up vast trade possibilities.

Ad 1) Hello!

Ad 2) We have some minor comments on jdjdjd's proposal. For the rest, we agree to an Alliance!

Ad 3) We see a trade possibility opening up in the near future (10 turns or so), and wish to make arrangements for

'Branching', which is what we call dividing up the tech tree between our two Civs and thus improving research

capabilities.

We'd like to talk further on 2) and 3) = though we may also start with 1) = in a chat of some sort. I can be reached on

ICQ (64070272), MSN (msn@rutgermooy.net) or we may meet on mIRC.

Please let me know which option(s) you prefer.

Greetings from the North,

BigFurryMonster
Minister of the Interior and Trade of Lux Invicta.

**BigFurryMonster** · January 16, 2003, 15:56

The answer:

It's good to hear from you. I have forwarded on your PM to my ambassador jdjdjd who handles the "details" of arrangements between my country and yours, and who I have the utmost faith in.

I would like to say that I am hopeful that we can get this alliance signed and I would be happy to split up our research paths so that we may research different technologies and trade them, thereby doubling each of our nations' research efforts.

I will be able to chat on mIRC during my lunch break shortly. I could possibly chat later this evening, PST. I'll drop into the Apolyton channel when I'm free if you'd like to chat informally.

--Togas

**WarriorPoet** · January 16, 2003, 16:25

Sounds good!

**BigFurryMonster** · January 16, 2003, 17:40

I had a conversation with Togas tonight. The following was agreed:

* We formalized the Alliance. Regarding III: we agree not to do 'hostile' things to each other, whether or not in co-operation with a third party. 'Hostile' is anything that might cause irritation or raise issues. Togas said he had no problem with scouts. Regarding IX: RP did =not= tell anyone of the Alliance. We agreed to keep it a secret, to avoid scaring and antagonizing other Civs.

* We have a trade deal: when trade Horseback Riding (which we will get from GoW) for Writing. Togas estimated that they have this in about 12 turns. Since HBR costs 5 and Writing costs 8, this is not a bad deal for us (especially since we got HBR from GoW).

* I told him that we go for Mysticism after that. They will probably go for MapMaking. This might become a trade, though we need to balance it out. So, let's get Mysticism from Vox!

* We agreed to always try to research different things.

* We extended the non-scouting agreement.

Furthermore, they wonder whether we or ND will settle the grasslands that are south of the mountains south of Invictus. I told him that ND will probably be going there. They are curious to the lands to our North and East.

**BigFurryMonster** · January 16, 2003, 17:46

This is the complete conversation:

[21:55] Hello!
[21:55] greetings
[21:56] Do you have some time to discuss the plan(s)?
[21:56] I have a little time right now
[21:56] Good
[21:56] See? I started with 1) Hello!
[21:56] Now 2) :
[21:56] The Alliance you wrote
[21:56] good?
[21:56] We agree on an Alliance, though there was 1 point of confusion
[21:57] which point?
[21:57] III
[21:57] Some of our citizens asked what was meant by this
[21:57] Let me go take a look at it and see which point thatis.
[21:59] It's just clarification. The main question is what is meant by 'hostile'
[22:00] check: are you still there? I got disconnected
[22:00] gotcha
[22:00] I'll retype it in this window... hold on
[22:01] I now have a '2' after my name
[22:01] Basically saying we're not going to plot and scheme against each other with other teams
[22:01] we'll be straight up with each other, no go behind the backs of the other team to make secret deals or undermine the alliance
[22:01] THe last thing I got from you was 'let me go take a look'
[22:01] OK
[22:01] The question was what was meant by "hostile"
[22:02] E.g.: does it include scouting?

[22:02] a mannor that could cause hostilities, agression, sabatage, etc.
[22:02] but scouting is relatively peaceful. I don't think that would be hostile
[22:03] Unless the other team specifically objects, I would say
[22:03] Would that be acceptable?
[22:03] I wouldn't object if you wanted to make a scouting agreement with another team
[22:03] OK. I think we can work this out
[22:04] Another point:
[22:04] IX
[22:04] Word has it that GoW knows of this Alliance
[22:04] Why would they know? We definately didn't tell them anything
[22:04] We sure did not tell them and some people got concerned
[22:04] Hmm.
[22:04] We want to keep this a secret so that they don't ally with ND to counter us
[22:04] Agreed
[22:05] What are your thoughts on ND, anyway?
[22:05] they don't talk much. We hope to keep the peace with them. Live and let live, you know?
[22:05] but if they start settling in our land, we're going to have issues.
[22:06] OK. They are quite close to us, which causes some irritation
[22:06] do you guys know the mountain range with the gems in it?
[22:06] Yes
[22:06] We call that Range "Siera Brillantes" It runs almost against the Arabian Mountains (south of Neu Theben)
[22:07] Cool :-)
[22:07] Do you guys plan to settle south of that range? Does ND?
[22:07] I think ND will have to, soon, since they are boxed in to the other sides by us and GoW
[22:08] But since we are closer to it than they are we will try to hold them off
[22:08] Are you guys moving to the north or east of ND? Or both?
[22:09] We are north of them; east is just a bunch of hills
[22:09] Let us hold the jungle border together and keep ND out of there
[22:10] But: to the point! Do we agree on the Alliance?
[22:10] We do not want ND to go south of the jungle. That's Spanish land. We haven't decided what to do with the valley just south of Sierra Brillantes
[22:10] * BigFurryMonster2 likes to be to the point
[22:10] We agree on the alliance
[22:10] Good! Let us celebrate!
[22:10] Well - after this meeting that is
[22:10] ;-)

[22:10]

[22:10] Now I come to 3) :
[22:11] Possible Trades
[22:11] What do we have now? Let's see
[22:11] Alphabet + 25 for Iron Working, isn't it ?
[22:11] yep
[22:12] May I ask what you are researching? We can combine forces then
[22:12] we're working on Writing. Then plan to go to mapmaking next
[22:13] Do you guys have Horseback Riding yet? We nearly have that one
[22:13] not yet. We'll skip that and trade you for it later.
[22:13] If you don't, I see a trade
[22:14] Great
[22:14] after that, where are you guys going?
[22:14] Let me see...
[22:14] * BigFurryMonster2 opens the Great Book of Knowledge
[22:14] I think Mysticism, probably
[22:15] working up to Monarchy?
[22:15] Yep
[22:15] not a bad idea
[22:16] You might want to try for Maths, then?
[22:16] I was hoping we could split up the Writing tech tree ... there's a lot to research there
[22:16] I have that same hope here
[22:16] we might go that route. I want currency, but literature is also a big plus
[22:16] True
[22:17] Let's work something out here:
[22:17] We go for Horseback Riding & Mysticism, you get Writing and something else after that
[22:17] let's exchange Writing for Horseback Riding when we get them
[22:17] All right.
[22:18] My guess is that we have that in about 8 turns
[22:18] Might be a little more
[22:18] After that let's try to make sure we always research different things
[22:18] When do you have Writing?
[22:18] 18 turns, but less once we get our next city
[22:18] probably will be 12 turns
[22:18] Good
[22:19] That is agreed then

BigFurryMonster2 toasts to a fruitful Alliance
[22:19] I can't promise much after writing because I don't know who will offer to trade us what. But I can pretty much go along with writing for horseback riding. It should balance out the IW trade a bit
[22:20] It is how you said it: always research different things
[22:20] BUT, I do want us to always TRY to research different things. If we can work it out, let's try to
[22:20] That is the main goal of the non-military part of this
[22:20] it's to our benefit to do so
[22:20] Yes
[22:21] I will put this in a PM and send it to you and jdjdjd
[22:21] ...and to Trip
[22:22] Good deal
[22:22] Maybe - if you get MapMaking, we can exchange Maps later
[22:22] to strenghen our knowledge of things
[22:22] good plan
[22:22] But that is for later
[22:23] we're very curious about the northern lands and how you guys will share them with GoW and ND
[22:23] but we'll save that for Mapmaking time
[22:23] Allright
[22:24] When we have Mysticism and you have MapMaking - maybe that is a second trade
[22:24] that might work. Not sure if it's entirely even, though. I'll ask my guys to see what they think.
[22:25] If it is not, we'll make sure to balance it out!
[22:25] shouldn't be a problem.
[22:25] The main thing is to get trade going
[22:25] agreed
[22:25] Did you and Trip speak (earlier) about scouting policies?
[22:26] yeah, we both agreed to not scout each other's lands
[22:26] OK. That is what I thought was agreed
[22:26] Much more efficient, this way
[22:26] I think so too.
[22:27] Q: I am in mIRC. How do I log this? (to record things for the deal)
[22:27] Not entirely sure. I've cut & pasted discussions before, but it's a pain
[22:27] have to do it screen by screen.
[22:27] I can't even do a screen
[22:28] I just grabbed all the text, hit Cntl-c, then went to next screen, paste ... repeat
[22:28] best plan is to just write down a paraphrase of our agreements and then PM it to jdjdjd
[22:28] I will
[22:28] I'll have him write back to verify

[22:29] I'm at the office right now, and I'd better get back to work before someone notices I'm chatting

[22:30] I'll go to bed now
[22:30] It's 22:30 here
[22:30] Look forward to your PM ... send it to jdjdjd and myself.
[22:30] Allright
[22:30] I'd better head off. Have a good night. Good to chat with you

[22:30] Bye!

**BigFurryMonster** · January 16, 2003, 17:57

This is the PM I sent to Togas, jdjdjd and Trip:

Togas (Espana) and BigFurryMonster (Lux Invicta) agreed on the following deals:

* The Alliance, as written down by jdjdjd (see below), was agreed upon. Special attention was paid to the fact that both parties will keep it secret from other Civs.

* We will trade Horseback Riding (from LI) for Writing (from RP). This will be done as soon as RP has obtained Writing, which will be in about 12 turns from now.

* LI will research Mysticism; RP will research another tech (possibly MapMaking) for those to be traded.

* We will always try to research different techs.

* We will not scout each other's territories (as agreed by Trip and Togas earlier).

-------------------------------------

The Alliance:

(etc.)

**Jon Shafer** · January 16, 2003, 19:15

One question: what about the lands to our south? Why did you tell him they would probably be settled by ND?

Announcement

Roleplay Alliance Proposal...

Roleplay Alliance Proposal...

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