Operation Double Edge - our grand plan

[vondrack]

Originally posted by vondrack
playing our turn yesterday, I noticed I had the starting position incorrectly copied into the first turn of my simulation, having few more shields already accumulated. Considering this error, The Great Lighthouse would be finished one turn later. However, as we will be missing the 300 shield mark by very little, I will have a look and try twisting the plan so that we get it still on Turn 105.

Well, this was a very embarrasing mistake... I carefully went through the whole sim, but based in on an incoreect starting situation. Well, I have fixed the error today, rerunning the whole sim. Fortunately, I was still able to finish the Great Lighthouse on the same Turn.



The major differences against the original plan:

1) we will CUT THE GAME FOREST first (affects this very turn!), later irrigating it - this will allow us to feed pop 7 in Panama)
2) we will need Jason to help a bit
3) we will make more money

A have also extended the table to show how long it would take to finish the Pyramids, if we changed our mind in the process and went for them instead of the Great Lighthouse.

Thinking of the arguments raised in your responses, I'm now considering The Pyramids much more of an option... even to the extent of being equally important as the Lighthouse, because of their neverexpiring effect. I agree that we will need the proper combination of wonders to trigger our GA... and Pyramids are undoubtedly the best industrial wonder available for a long time.

Well, I presume that the fundamental decision, to go for two great wonders, is generally supported by the whole team. The only question opened remains that of the second wonder to build.

OK, let's rock-n-roll!

[Sharpe]

I was wondering what we were going to do with Panama once we built the galleys ...

I agree with most of the plan - I also agree that which wonders we end up building are not set in stone.

Pyramids would be a very viable alternative (assuming no one has built them by that point) to Gr Lighthouse (or even Gr Library if we do end up keeping up in tech). IIRC, right now we are "moderately advanced", so I suspect that we are in the middle of the pack tech wise.

I am always a bit wary of cutting down trees this early re: cutting down the game forest, especially as I am not sure - can we reach size 7 in Panama without an aquaduct? Wasn't sure that we were on the river or not as the angle may be fooling me...

My primary concern about the plan is our slow rate of producing new cities. Currently we are in a long lull of not building cities and from what Vondrack has told me - the plan after the granary is built is to build a merc then a settler and continue in that pattern in Legopolis.

Farmerville's first settler is a long way off - perhaps 12 turns away. Legoland will take a while to get its next settler off too.

Considering that RedBricks is a better shield producer than first thought (its 2 forest squares help out with that), perhaps we should evaluate whether it is better to build a settler now in Farmerville rather than a worker.

[Tiberius]

Radek, if you cut down the forest, doesn't this mean that the galley placeholder (the mercenary), will be ready earlier, I mean before Map Making?

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Radek, if you cut down the forest, doesn't this mean that the galley placeholder (the mercenary), will be ready earlier, I mean before Map Making?

Fortunately not. Map Making shall be discovered on Turn 58, just before the Turn 59, when the galley is to be finished (see the revised Panama production schedule and the latest summary table in the Chronicle). I would not mind if someone double checks, though... it is very close, I admit...

[Tiberius]

If Leopold finishes the clearing in turn 58, when do the extra shields add to Panama? In the beginning of turn 58 or at the end of it; or at the beginning at turn 59? If it happens at the beginning of the turn 58, the city checks if the built item is ready before or after that?

What is the exact order of things happening? (I saw the thread in the Strategy forum, but I admit I didn't pay it too much attention then)

Unfortunately I can't check it exactly with the simulator, because Panama starts with an empty foodbox, while in reality it was having some food (in the year when the simulation starts).

Edit: what if Leopold would road first? just to be sure. Forget it, we would lose the forest clearing bonus.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
If Leopold finishes the clearing in turn 58, when do the extra shields add to Panama? In the beginning of turn 58 or at the end of it; or at the beginning at turn 59? If it happens at the beginning of the turn 58, the city checks if the built item is ready before or after that?

What is the exact order of things happening? (I saw the thread in the Strategy forum, but I admit I didn't pay it too much attention then)

Well, what I am sure of it that it is not before the turn 58 happens, so we will have a chance to change the production to Galley.

BTW, have a look at that thread... there is interesting info in there... most of what I've found out during my XLS orgies...

Originally posted by Tiberius
Unfortunately I can't check it exactly with the simulator, because Panama starts with an empty foodbox, while in reality it was having some food (in the year when the simulation starts).

The simulation I ran was started fom exactly the situation we are having now, so I am pretty sure it is going to work... just that there is always the possibility of missing some detail - that's what happened to me when I did the first sim, copying wrong init values from the latest summary table...

[vondrack]

Just to make sure that you know what I am thinking of...

I still strongly believe that we shall build the Great Library. We already are well behind in the tech race (just have a look at my chat with Trip - all teams are researching Tier 3 techs! confirmed yesterday while chatting with DeepO of GS) and if we miss the GLib, we will have to bleed to catch up, ending on the thin end of the rope every time. OTOH, with the Great Lib, we will need nothing from the others and we will be able to quietly continue our building race.

I no longer consider the Great Lighthouse the likely "second edge". The Pyramids are now the top candidate for the second wonder, that's for sure.

With all the teams having a contact and us hopefully making the contact over that narrow part of the ocean, nobody will be interested in the Great Lighthouse anymore. Which will serve us very well, as - if we manage to get The Pyramids - we will be able to use it to trigger our Golden Age (plus increase our naval superiority, adding +1 movement to our ships).

So, my current plan is to stick to our plan and do not get distracted by the Lux thing... BTW, do not get mislead by what you can hear and see in the public forum. They are planning to escape from the Bob continent and they still are working on that.

Let's make no contacts until we get the Great Library - let's make as many right afterwards, catching up on techs. Let's go for The Pyramids as the second wonder, saving the GLh for later (preferrably after switching to Republic).

[Kloreep]

Agreed, GLib will be best in the long run, and Pyramids are good and vital for a peaceful GA. I had hoped we wouldn't be too behind thanks to war, but so much for that...