Location of our fourth city

[vondrack]

The settler in Legopolis will be finished on the next turn. While we actually have one more turn to make the decision (sending the settler along the road across the Plastico River either way will be ok), we have to decide where to send him then. So, have a look at the discussion in The Lego Growth Plan and make up your mind. I will use the tentative city names from my city placement proposal post, make sure you know which one is which... It would be great if you can briefly comment on your choice plus add your preferences for the future production of Legopolis and Jackson.

[vondrack]

Voted for the Panama site. Mostly because of if we have one more pretty productive city, we will be able to build a settler in Legopolis or Jackson from time to time. Red Bricks would not be that productive with all that jungle around... plus, Panama will grow more slowly, so let's start growing it ASAP...

Legopolis to build a Merc.
Jackson to build a Settler.

The Jackson settler should found Red Bricks then.

[Tiberius]

Re: Location of our fourth city

Originally posted by vondrack
While we actually have one more turn to make the decision (sending the settler along the road across the Plastico River either way will be ok),

What are you talking about? Either I'm a complete idiot or you are miscalculating something, but how can we have one more turn when Panama and Red Bricks/Forkmouth are in complete different directions?? For Panama the settler would move NW while for RedBricks/Forkmouth: SE-S; or ...?

[vondrack]

Re: Re: Location of our fourth city

Originally posted by Tiberius
What are you talking about? Either I'm a complete idiot or you are miscalculating something, but how can we have one more turn when Panama and Red Bricks/Forkmouth are in complete different directions?? For Panama the settler would move NW while for RedBricks/Forkmouth: SE-S; or ...?

Sorry to say that you... errr...
The trick is that whatever direction we cross the river in (stopping on the other bank), we will be able to move one more tile in the direction we eventually choose on the next turn, thanks to the road...

[Tiberius]

Hmmm, I still don't believe you, but this is merely because I don't want to accept that I'm a complete idiot Maybe I'm not complete, yet

[Tiberius]

I'm at home now and I've tested it.

[Tiberius]

I voted for Forkmouth because
a) the site is awesome
b) we don't have a worker now to improve Panama, and without some irrigations and mines there it doesn't have much of a potential.

If we build Panama with the Jackson settler, the worker that is working near Jackson now could also move toward Panama and improve it.

Originally posted by vondrack
Legopolis to build a Merc.
Jackson to build a Settler.

I agree with these.

[lmtoops]

I also voted for Forksmouth. The great location out weighs the extra C&W. We need to start developing this site so it will be a major producer in the future.

[ZargonX]

Voted for Forkmouth. Panama is a more strategic site in my mind, and I don't think we need it quite yet. Forkmouth holds a lot of potential, though we are going to have to pour some workers into getting the lands prepped.

[vondrack]

I must say that I am surprised by how the vote progresses... I expected a pretty tight tie between Panama and Red Bricks... Kloreep or Tiberius, would you be so kind and find out what the levels of waste will be for Forkmouth (using your simulators)? I mean, how many shields will be wasted for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 shields produced? Preferrably for both unconnected and connected city, please. Thanks.

[ZargonX]

You know what; I'm an idiot I was reading the plan incorrectly... what I actually meant to vote for was Red Brick. I think Forkmouth should be the first settler out of Farmerville.

[Kloreep]

I'll get that Forkmouth corruption chart. Hang on.

[Kloreep]

Okay, here it is. I'm afraid there isn't much difference even with a road connection.

Forkmouth Unconnected
Shields Gathered (before corruption)	Shields Produced (after corruption)
1	1
2	1
3	2
4	2
5	3
6	3
7	4
8	4
9	5

Forkmouth Connected
Shields Gathered (before corruption)	Shields Produced (after corruption)
1	1
2	1
3	2
4	2
5	3
6	4
7	4
8	5
9	5

I vote Panama. Forkmouth is too uncorrupted and too far away, and Red Bricks would need a worker just as much as Panama.

Edit: Strikeout. Forkmouth is corrupted, hence my voting against it.

[Tiberius]

I apologize, I wanted to make a table, but it's too late and I'm too tired.

Legend:
p=production, w=waste (real production=rp=p-w)
g=commerce, c=corruption (real gold=rg=g-c)
f=Food

The facts:

Panama
1. unconnected, unimproved

size1: p3, w1, rp=2, g2, c0, rg=2, f4
size2: p4, w1, rp=3, g3, c1, rg=2, f5
size3: p5, w1, rp=4, g4, c1, rg=3, f6

2. unconnected, improved (3 roads, one irrigated plain, one mined hill)
size3: p6, w1, rp=5, g5, c2, rg=3, f7

3. connected, improved
size3: p6, w1, rp=5, g5, c1, rg=4, f7

Forkmouth
1. unconnected, unimproved

size1: p3, w2, rp=1, g2, c1, rg=1, f4
size2: p4, w2, rp=2, g3, c2, rg=1, f6
size3: p5, w3, rp=2, g4, c2, rg=2, f8

2. unconnected, improved (3 roads, two mined bonus grasslands)
size3: p7, w4, rp=3, g7, c4, rg=3, f8

3. connected, improved
size3: p7, w3, rp=4, g7, c3, rg=4, f8

This might be somehow difficult to read, but a few conclusion:
- Forkmouth is obviously much more corrupted than Panama, connected or not
- Panama must be worked ASAP; even so it can't really grow beyond size4 without a temple (for one more irrigated plains), but with 2 mined hills it can a good site for the Great Lighthouse, for example
- Panama grows slower than FM but produces things faster (due to the lower corruption+waste); thus it can't be a settler farm, but can be a production center.

In my only long simulation (the others were only pre-prepared test scenarios) I founded Forkmouth first and Panama with Jackson's settler. The advantage was that the worker, after finishing his work near Jackson, has moved to work Panama in time to connect it very quickly to Legopolis, and the irrigation was also ready very fast, alllowing it to grow faster. One more observation from my testgame: we will need workers ASAP. Shortly we will have 5 cities, they must be connected and improved, so ...

Seeing these results, maybe it'd be better to choose Panama as our next city.

" Must ... go ... sleep"
* Tiberius crawls to bed *

[Tiberius]

Oops, I didn't see Kloreep's table. I'm curious if the results are the same. Anyway, his conclusion seems to be the same.