Science poll : should we beeline for a Government Tech ?

[Spiffor]

OK, it's poll time.

As you know it, there has been some debate about beelining to Republic or to Monarchy.
In my definition, "beeline" means to research only techs that lead to the particular regime we want (i.e, if we beeline for Republic, we don't waste time researching mapmaking or iron working), once Bronze working has been discovered.

We sure talked about beelining to Republic or Monarchy, but we didn't imagine : "what if we don't beeline at all ?"

I intend to post a poll in a few days on whether our aim is Republic or Monarchy (I think we should discuss it, now that we know our starting position), and I think this question should be answered first.

QUESTION :
Should we beeline for a Government Tech ?

Answers :
YES
NO
Too soon to tell*

The poll will close in 3 days

*"too soon to tell" doesn't mean "abstain" : it is an active statement that we lack info to decide on this.

[Spiffor]

I say YES.
Our starting position seems good for now, but it is likely we don't have much good land around Legopolis. A government change will mean a more intensive production (i.e, one tile will produce more). Since we risk to have only a small patch of good land, this intensivity is absolutely needed.
Plus, if we beeline for a new government, we can hope to trade it with our friends for a good price, and to acquire more riches and knowledge faster.
That would definitely give an edge to us.

[vondrack]

Too early to decide, IMHO.

We probably have something like 10-15 turns to finish our research on Bronze Working. At that time, we will be much wiser about what our starting location is (meant globally) and whether we need a specific tech or are relatively free to beeline for Monarchy or Republic.

[Spiffor]

right. Sorry, but I've seen BW in 9 turns in the screenshots, which means we'd have to decide very quickly. Maybe I rush things a little, but I prefer we discuss too early rather than too late.
BTW, if you are interested in discussing the various merits of Monarchy and Republic, please go to that thread

This here thread is only intended to discuss whether we beeline or not, not the direction of ou beeline

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Spiffor
right. Sorry, but I've seen BW in 9 turns in the screenshots, which means we'd have to decide very quickly. Maybe I rush things a little, but I prefer we discuss too early rather than too late.
BTW, if you are interested in discussing the various merits of Monarchy and Republic, please go to that thread

This here thread is only intended to discuss whether we beeline or not, not the direction of ou beeline

Spiffor, the 9 turn research was prior to replaying the turn without Accelerated Production on. Everything is slower now that the AP is off. I will post the current screenshots later today... It's just that I currently have some RL work to do - that's why I haven't done it already. Give me few hours, please.

[Tiberius]

It is too soon. We are not much wiser than 2 days ago, before the game has started. Let's wait until we discover BW and decide after that.

[ZargonX]

Hmm... too soon to tell. I'd like to see some more of the surrounding terrain before making a decision. The availability of good city sites can make a big difference in options.

[Kloreep]

A little too soon. Let's get some warriors out scouting first.

[Sharpe]

Too soon to tell, we need to explore more to find out how good or how dire our land situation is.

As well, as I mentioned in the Monarchy vs Republic thread, there are other techs not on the government paths that are critical such as Iron Working and The Wheel, not so much for their military units, but to uncover the Iron and Horse resources so that we are not settling blindly.

We also need to consider that unlike us, many of the other civs have cheaper buildings (especially the numerous religious civs) so we can't be too late on getting those "Building Techs" for Libraries and Temples.

[Spiffor]

Bump

We now know more of our surroundings, and pottery is 3 turns away. I'm bumping this discussion because I don't want to rush a decision when I'll have to meet one.

Most very early techs are ours now, and we have to decide between more expansive tehcs, hence we have to decide carefully

[Tiberius]

Going for Monarchy is very tempting, because we are only 2 techs (Mysticism+Polytheism) away from it. That would mean probably great trade deals and very probably the Hanging Gardens for us.

However, being (as it looks like) in the vecinity of the GoW, we should probably go for IW and/or the Wheel. If they were willing to trade these with us it would be great, but if they didn't, we are in trouble because they will aggresively settle the places where they see iron and/or horses.

I would say IW now, and later... we'll see.

[Spiffor]

Once East Coast City is built, IW should need about 21 turns to be completed (I should run a simulation for precise results), and horse / mysticism about 14 turns.

I'm not fond of researching IW right now, because we don't have much choice for our next city anyways (at least 14 turns away). Same thing for the wheel.

However, I'm tempted by writing too : even if I'd prefer monarchy for our government (since we'll have only 2 citizens born content, and will have at least 2 cities which don't need aqueduct to grow past size 6), writing would bring us the wonderful mapmaking, which could be a must if we are indeed stuck in a jungle island.
(plus, writing is on the path towards Republic, which is a traditional builder favorite)

[vondrack]

yup, my choice would be Writing

Originally posted by Spiffor
Once East Coast City is built, IW should need about 21 turns to be completed (I should run a simulation for precise results), and horse / mysticism about 14 turns.

I'm not fond of researching IW right now, because we don't have much choice for our next city anyways (at least 14 turns away). Same thing for the wheel.

However, I'm tempted by writing too : even if I'd prefer monarchy for our government (since we'll have only 2 citizens born content, and will have at least 2 cities which don't need aqueduct to grow past size 6), writing would bring us the wonderful mapmaking, which could be a must if we are indeed stuck in a jungle island.
(plus, writing is on the path towards Republic, which is a traditional builder favorite)

Spiffor, I just quoted your post, since I wholeheartedly agree with you. I, too, would prefer not researching Wheel, nor Iron Working, since they do not bring any immediate advantage and would be highly unlikely to affect our third city placement anyway. I do agree that Writing is what we should choose now, primarily because of the Map Making tech. Also, as Alphabet was our almost exclusive starting tech, we are more likely to get Writing and then Map Making ahead of others, allowing us to build the corresponding GWs, if we choose to go for them, or make fine trade deals.

Also, we are likely to make contact with GoW soon - my guess is that IW and Wheel were high on their research list and we will be better off trading for them (offering Alphabet and possibly Writing), establishing a friendly relation with them.

Count my vote as one for Writing.

EDIT: even though I wrote Literature, I meant Writing, of course... ...corrected.

[Tiberius]

If the GoW decide to trade with us instead of fight with us, then IW and the Wheel are techs we most likely will get from them. In this case, going for writing is a fine choice. It gives us the choice to research Literature or Map Making, depending on the situation.

[Tiberius]

Maybe we should start thinking on the "guaranteed" trades the GoW is proposing to us (after exchanging the minimaps): Writing for IW and the Alphabet for the Wheel. Not bad, IMHO.