The War: 1255AD

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by vondrack

We would look perfectly normal.

Everybody has or wants to have a spy with everybody. I actually admitted having a spy with ND in my chat with Darekill - and he told me they had spies with both GS and GoW, planning to plant one with us ASAP. He said it was no big secret we had spies all over the world, considering how long we'd been knowing Espionage...

This is not SP, where dumb AIs declare war over failed spy insertion attempts.

So - no worries, ND knows and is apparently ok, as they did not report any hostilities in 1255AD.

I agree. I am sure that everyone who is playing knows that everyone else has spies planted in everyone else nation. I am sure that etheir GOW or GS had a spy planted with us before the war. Speaking of that, does not one lose their spy when they go to war with anther CIV? Just want to check.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by lmtoops
Here's a thought. We could increase the population of Sandonorico to 12, which would make it a metropolis. The city has a harbor that could feed the additional citizens.

As Jack pointed out, that's the million dollar questions are:
Where is GoW? and Is there another GS fleet?

The answer is exactly as Vondrack stated, we do our intelligence moves, and then adjust as needed.

I dont think GS has anther fleet heading for us. THe reason is that they may have a lot of transports, but not enough offensive units to fill them all. ALso I dont think they would throw everything they had at us and leave their homeland undefended. If the invasion failed they would be opened to attack, and I dont think they would do something like that.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Jack_www
Speaking of that, does not one lose their spy when they go to war with anther CIV? Just want to check.

No, you keep the spy. Tested that myself in a PBEM I waged a modern war in (plus, we were still able to see precise military numbers for GS/GoW in 1250AD). Having a spy in a modern war is a must.

What is really important is whether GS have a spy with us. If they do, then it will be tougher for us - they'll see our cities stuffed with defenders and won't attempt to take them with seaborne attacks. They will instead land their non-marine units and move the transports with marines to elsewhere, forcing us to keep our forces split (and defending against 40 marines is a tad easier than defending against 70 tanks... not mentioning that we would actually have to defend against 40 marines and 70 tanks...).

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Jack_www
I dont think GS has anther fleet heading for us. THe reason is that they may have a lot of transports, but not enough offensive units to fill them all. ALso I dont think they would throw everything they had at us and leave their homeland undefended. If the invasion failed they would be opened to attack, and I dont think they would do something like that.

Agreed. GS have about 10 more transports, but only about 50 more units to fill them in (and that'd be under assumption they'd be ok with leaving Stormia defended by 20 rifles and 14 arty pieces...).

Most likely, the "missing" transports are to bring GS reserves in, not to invade through yet another landing zone. But sure we check anyway...

[Jack_www]

I would assume for now that they have a spy untill proven other wise. But we might be able to use that to advantage for us and force them to land were we want them to land. I think if they try to land on dry land it will only benfit us.

[Tiberius]

I'm sure this was taken into account, but I thought it's better to doublepost about something rather than miss it completely, so here it comes:

If the GS fleet will be 5xE from its current location, they will be able to attack not only Sandorico, but also Forkmouth. It is true that the transports won't be able to move into the city, but the marines can attack and then they can move everything they have into the city, hoping that we won't have enough forces to retake it.

This can be prevented easily if we attack the GS armada with our battleships from their N, NE and E. Attacking from their East serves a double purpose: it will force them to make an extra move, so should we lose Sandorico, they will be unable to move the transports into it, so they will be stuck with unfortified units in Sandorico, unable to use their combat settlets until the next turn.

We should also destroy the fortification S-SW from Sandorico.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
If the GS fleet will be 5xE from its current location, they will be able to attack not only Sandorico, but also Forkmouth. It is true that the transports won't be able to move into the city, but the marines can attack and then they can move everything they have into the city, hoping that we won't have enough forces to retake it.

Completely true and the Operation Helm's Deeps shall focus Forkmouth as one of the most endangered cities. This one I was aware of...

Originally posted by Tiberius
This can be prevented easily if we attack the GS armada with our battleships from their N, NE and E. Attacking from their East serves a double purpose: it will force them to make an extra move, so should we lose Sandorico, they will be unable to move the transports into it, so they will be stuck with unfortified units in Sandorico, unable to use their combat settlets until the next turn.

...but this is a new idea for me and I must say it's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

I've been pondering about how to use Task Force North... first, we do not want to lose it completely - the lower losses, the better, naturally, since we do not have navy to waste and we need to focus on building tanks. Second, we better use it on offense, since a 4/4 BB sinks a 4/4 DD in 83.3% cases on offense, but in 55.2% on defense only. Third, we should use it to fight, since just 'having it around' is not productive. Fourth, if GS have a spy with us and investigate Sandonorico and Forkmouth, they will realize a seaborne assault at any of them would be just a mass suicide...

...and the countermove I feared was that GS would land the bulk of their forces somewhere in the open (prolly so that they'd threaten 2 different cities of ours on the following turn) and move their armada with all those marines and few extra tanks and settlers to the South, posing a threat to Q.M. and Abilene. We'd have to split our forces to defend four or five strategic points, which would be very bad for us.

Tibi's BB attack led from Sandonorico W-W-W-W is actually a brilliant move that addresses almost all my concerns. First, we would probably reduce the number of GS DDs by a good deal - I'd not be surprised to see five of their DDs sunk. Second, even the surviving ones should be far from healthy. Third, as Tibi correctly points out, GS would be unable to blitz through Sandonorico. Fourth, if GS land bulk of their forces and move the rest of the armada southwards, we simply follow them with our BBs - and this time, I'd believe we'd crack through the escort and score some transport hits (especially as we should have more navy coming from the South, after finishing the Operation Wasp Hive).

This is definitely an operation we should attempt - I'd still carry Operations Busy Bee & Wasp Hive first, but this one (Operation Empire Strikes Back? or Operation Kamikaze?) shall be the third one to be carried out this coming turn.

Once again, big , Tibi! Would you mind being promoted to Rear-Admiral, Commander of Task Force North? It's not the highest rank available, but we need to be able to promote you further, should you do well.

Hey, guys, don't look at me this way... you know there is a lot of bribing going on between me and Tibi... it started with that carrier thing... and became a natural part of the system!

Originally posted by Tiberius
We should also destroy the fortification S-SW from Sandorico.

I'd very much prefer manning this fort - since it's the only landing zone allowing GS to threaten 2 cities on the following turn while enjoying a 50% defensive bonus during our counter-attack.

Defending this hill fortress is actually as difficult as defending Forkmouth - same defense boni. So, if we have units enough, I would like to man this fortress, preventing GS from landing there.

[Jack_www]

I also am in favor of a full attack on the GS armada by our BB.

[lmtoops]

I agree this is a brilliant attack strategy. I actually thought of it before, but I didn't want to take all the credit...or maybe it was internet problems

Seriously, it's a great plan and we should move forward with it.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by DeepO
Battle Report 1255 AD
fighter bombards sub U-Q1 (3/4). hit. sub 2/4
2/4 DD attacks sub U-Q1 (2/4). 2/4 DD sinks. Sub 2/4.
1/4 Sub attacks sub U-Q1 (2/4). 1/4 Sub sinks. Lego sub promotes, 3/5.

Total: 1 bombardment, and 2 battles. We lost a DD and a Sub.

Yay!

[Tiberius]

Yay! Now, where exactly was that 2/4 DD that attacked U-Q1?

"Commander of Task Force North" sounds great Btw, how many units are under my command? This is actually not a joke, I can't remember how many BBs we have in that group, and I was thinking how could we dispatch them so that we limit as much as possible the movement of the GS armada. If we are able to block their way to Forkmouth, that means more defenders in other cities or coastal strategic positions.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Yay! Now, where exactly was that 2/4 DD that attacked U-Q1?

Must have been somewhere to the SW of Task Force North - must have been the one that attacked our northernmost DD in 1250AD. No other GS DD could have been that close, I believe.

Originally posted by Tiberius
"Commander of Task Force North" sounds great Btw, how many units are under my command? This is actually not a joke, I can't remember how many BBs we have in that group, and I was thinking how could we dispatch them so that we limit as much as possible the movement of the GS armada. If we are able to block their way to Forkmouth, that means more defenders in other cities or coastal strategic positions.

Be proud of yourself, Tibi, as you command seven mighty battleships.

However, unless we find ourselves desperately short of defenders for all threatened cities, I would actually try to attack from Sandonorico W-W-W-W with all BBs we have (and move those that will sink a DD en route to there, too). The thing is GS will likely have few extra DDs left anyway (we spotted 8, right? - and we do not know if there are more on the Northern flank, just like there were two on the Southern flank of their Armada). They would most probably be able to break through 1-2 BBs anyway (to block access to Forkmouth completely, we'd have to control 3 tiles, which would imply having maximum of 2 BBs per tile blocked ).

OTOH, if we ensure having all our BBs on the same tile, GS will not be able to pick and sink the most damaged ones - they would have to attack the healthiest surviving BB first, which might deter them from attacking at all.

Plus... unless we get into real troubles and have to defend like 6 cities, we will have defenders enough to ensure no city falls into GS' hands. And in that case, we will want them to attack one, wasting all their marines, so that we can stop worrying about our coastal cities and focus on their land units.

So, I would actually lead all battleships around their Northern flank to Sandonorico W-W-W-W and only then open fire. If there are any DDs blocking the way to that tile, no problem, attack them - but move BBs attacking successfully en route to Sandonorico W-W-W-W eventually, too.

[vondrack]

But one more thing - let's not forget that there may still be a third GS fleet out there, heading for somewhere between Invoice and Sharpehaven (sailing out from Blizzard in 1250AD). If such a fleet shows up at S'haven W-W-W-NW, threatening Invoice and S'haven, we will have to use Task Force North to sink that one, allowing us to concentrate our defenses in Sandonorico and Forkmouth.

BTW... this is funny. I have just realized my deduction eventually leading to spotting the GS Armada was quite wrong. They could have sailed from Blizzard, move 5xE and then E-E-NE-NE-NE - and be in a position allowing a blitz-through attack at S'haven and an attack at Invoice (which they would be happy to just raze, preventing us from moving ships through the Isthmus of Invoice).

Not that this would have changed anything - we would have still checked Hurrican 5xE, since it was the only tile within the range, but my thinking was wrong about Blizzard being an unsuitable launching point for the GS invasion.

[Tiberius]

Your arguments sound convincing Indeed, if we can stack only 2 BBs per tile, considering that they may be damaged from the attack and that GS may attack them with several DDs, we wouldn't be 100% sure that GS can't reach Forkmouth, so we would have to defend it anayway, in which case why split my mighty navy ?

[vondrack]

BTW, one more thing to keep in mind... while it is highly unlikely, we should keep in mind GS might have chosen an unconventional research path and beeline for the Nuclear Power, which would grant their ships an extra movement point. IIRC, they entered modern times in 1170AD, which was 8 turns ago. That's certainly not enough to get to Nuclear Power (Fisson+Nuclear Power is 13440 beakers, whcih would be beyond even our capability to research in 8t)... but they may be beelining for it.

It might actually explain lack of MIs on their rooster... I mean, they have had ~8 turns to research Computers... 6240/8=780bpt should have been doable for them...

This part of the puzzle confuses me...