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**Kloreep** · August 18, 2004, 19:22

If GoW had tanks, I could definitely see them attacking ND in an alliance with GS. This is GoW, remember.

However, you're right, it would be quite an unequal partnership. So it less likely.

**lmtoops** · August 19, 2004, 00:42

Oh well, this is all speculation and does not change what we need to do...but it is interesting.

Are we agreed, in slowing our research by 2-turns, and going with the upgrade plan?

Leo

**vondrack** · August 19, 2004, 00:55

I take it we all agree on slowing the research this turn (probably for two turns) and upgrading along the lines outlined by me above.

More info soon to come (save just arrived).

**vondrack** · August 19, 2004, 03:37

I have PMed Trip about the gold bug, we'll see what he says.

However, there were some important news this turn:

1) Rhothaerill reported an error on his side... he somehow forgot that some of the 120g upgrades they "needed" were actually caravels - which do not need to be upgraded. Means, Vox do not need any more upgrade gold from us. Just the research funding around 100gpt. That's 480 extra gold for us.

2) GS traded Atomic Theory to someone (most probably GoW), as the cost went down 10 more percent. That's 480 beakers we do not need to invest into the AT research.

3) Flight discovered this turn. It's cost has gone down 10%. I'd expect it to be down 10 more percent next turn due to GoW trading it to GS (probably for Atomic Theory).

4) We have remained weak vs. GS despite upgrading half of our rifles to infantry.

**vondrack** · August 19, 2004, 08:15

Reflecting the new info (no more gold for Vox upgrades, lower AT research cost), I have redone the cashflow analysis:

The first number in brackets is the number of beakers accumulated into the AT research (current cost: 3840).

(790) 1120AD: 1930g, at +230gpt/+790bpt (2098g+233gpt-400g sent to Vox in 1110AD)
--------------: Vox upgrade needs satisfied

Scenario A: no change
(1580) 1130AD: 1930g+230gpt=2160g, 100g sent to Vox
(2370) 1140AD: 2160g+230gpt-100g=2290g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: IA finished, spies planted with GS & GoW, ~400g
(3160) 1150AD: 2290g-400g+230gpt-100g=2020g, 100g sent to Vox
(3950) 1160AD: 2020g+230gpt-100g=2150g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: Atomic Theory discovered, starting Electronics

Means that in 1160AD, we'd have ~1000g to upgrade whatever we'd need. Plus, Electronics will be 4320-10%=3888 beakers. A 4t Electronics research will require 70%-80% science for all 4t (unless GS trades it, which now seems possible). That's +70gpt to -80gpt, while having to support Vox with about 100gpt to keep them at 100% research (Flight to be discovered in 1200AD). It's not as bad as it was one turn ago, but we'd still be able to upgrade only the rifles, no cannons.

Scenario B: 1t slowdown
( 790) 1120AD: science cut to 10% -> +1000gpt/+130bpt
( 920) 1130AD: 1930g+1000gpt=2930g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: science upped to 40% -> +530gpt/+530bpt
(1710) 1140AD: 2930g+530gpt-100g=3360g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: IA finished, spies planted with GS & GoW, ~400g
--------------: science upped to 60% -> +230gpt/+790bpt
(2500) 1150AD: 3360g-400g+230gpt-100g=3090g, 100g sent to Vox
(3290) 1160AD: 3090g+230gpt-100g=3220g, 100g sent to Vox
(3820) 1170AD: 3220g+230gpt-100g=3350g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: Atomic Theory discovered, starting Electronics

Means that in 1160AD, we'd effectively have ~2120g. We'd still be short of ~480g (i.e. 4 cannon upgrades). And that 4t Electronics is going to need some gold to cover the temporary deficit...

Scenario C: 2t slowdown
( 790) 1120AD: science cut to 10% -> +1000gpt/+130bpt
( 920) 1130AD: 1930g+1000gpt=2930g, 100g sent to Vox
(1050) 1140AD: 2930g+1000gpt-100g=3830g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: IA finished, spies planted with GS & GoW, ~400g
--------------: science upped to 50% -> +370gpt/+670bpt
(1720) 1150AD: 3830g-400g+370gpt-100g=3700g, 100g sent to Vox
(2390) 1160AD: 3700g+370gpt-100g=3800g, 100g sent to Vox
(3060) 1170AD: 3800g+370gpt-100g=4070g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: science upped to 60% -> +230gpt/+790bpt
(3850) 1180AD: 4070g+230gpt-100g=4200g

Means that in 1160AD, we'd effectively have 2700g to upgrade whatever we'd need. That's actually more than we need to upgrade all cannons and rifles (2600g). And we'd have the gold to fund a deficit Electronics research.

The 2t slowdown option now looks perfect - but even the 1t slowdown scenario looks doable now... since we will most likely not spend whole 400g on spies and Vox should be done with Flight at least one, but most probably two turns earlier (because of Flight being known to GoW & GS). Means we will not have such a deficit while doing the 4t Electronics...

Again - check the numbers, please... but I believe that the 1t slowdown option is now quite viable. A difference of 4 cannon upgrades does not seem to be important enough to balance a 1t research delay.

**Tiberius** · August 19, 2004, 10:01

how about doing a 20% or 30% research after one turn of 10%? This way we could keep our options open and decide on the last turn to finish AT in one turn (upping the slider to 70%-80%) or gather some more gold, finishing it in 2 turns.

We would keep the gold in our coffers in the meantime and use it for one fast turn of research or spend it on upgrades if we need to.

**vondrack** · August 19, 2004, 10:09

That's an interesting idea, I will look into it later today.

**Tiberius** · August 19, 2004, 10:38

Unless I'm mistaken, we will also finish some universities in the meantime, so one last turn of 70% or 80% should not be a problem to finish AT.

We would gain this way 3 or 4 more turns to decide what to do, while not having to worry about the lack of money for upgrades.

**ZargonX** · August 19, 2004, 13:48

Tibi's plan sounds pretty sound. If the numbers work, I say go with it

**vondrack** · August 19, 2004, 18:04

Alright, here is the final plan for the next few turns (code-named Case Tibi

)

The first number in brackets is the number of beakers accumulated into the AT research (current cost: 3840).

(790) 1120AD: 1236g, at +998gpt/+129bpt

Case Tibi: 1t slowdown with a safety option
( 920) 1130AD: 1236g+1000gpt=2240g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: science upped to 20% -> +840gpt/+260bpt
(1180) 1140AD: 2240g+840gpt-100g=2980g, 100g sent to Vox
--------------: IA finished, spies planted with GS & GoW, ~400g
--------------: science upped to 60% -> +230gpt/+800bpt
(1980) 1150AD: 2980g-400g+230gpt-100g=2710g, 100g sent to Vox
(2780) 1160AD: 2710g+230gpt-100g=2840g, 100g sent to Vox

Depending on the situation, we will be able to either go up to 80% (-80gpt/+1060bpt) and finish AT in 1170AD, or insert 1 extra turn at 10% and then go back to 60%, finishing AT in 1180AD with loads of extra cash.

This gives us cash enough (1700+g) to upgrade all cannons and few more infantries immediately if needed. Extra gold to upgrade infantries could either come from that extra slow turn or, in case of an imminent threat, from the base 1000g.

**Tiberius** · August 20, 2004, 02:11

I vote for Case Tibi

**ZargonX** · August 20, 2004, 09:37

Case Tibi... sounds like something you'd pick up after a bad insect bite in the jungle

Regardless, I'd vote for that, too

**lmtoops** · August 20, 2004, 11:18

Yes vote for Case Tibi.

New Proposal - Briefcase Leo
Just prior to sinking the GS Transport, we mass moon the enemies.

Note: In case "moon" does not translate. We all drop our pants, bend over, and show them our back side.

**rendelnep** · August 20, 2004, 11:35

Will that require a photo?

**vondrack** · August 20, 2004, 16:07

Originally posted by lmtoops
Note: In case "moon" does not translate. We all drop our pants, bend over, and show them our back side.

Yeah, saw that in a movie!

:

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