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Fellow Legos,
With me becoming an informal leader of this nation over the ages, I feel it's my duty to launch a major discussion about our global plans for the next age.
So far in this game, we have been able to reach almost all our objectives, the only notable exception being the GS-Vox War (though, eventually, it didn't end up all that bad for us). In order to keep this stellar track record, we need to set ourselves new goals, so that we can actually reach them. May sound like a natural thing, but ATM, with our GA starting hopefully this coming turn, we will have pretty much reached the objectives we've set ourselves in this game so far.
Simply "doing our best to win from now on" is no goal in the sense of what I'm talking about. We need to figure out how we are going to win, whose help and in what form we solicit, which team(s) we choose as our long-term partner(s) and what we do for them.
By coincidence, I chatted with Master Zen (GoW) and Zayxus (ND) yesterday and got a PM from Beta (Vox) this morning. The chats and PM prompted me to start this thread, because I feel this is a crucial moment in our history.
I believe we would all agree that Legoland has grown into an economic superpower unchallenged by anyone else in the world. Our military is not overwhelming yet, but that should change very soon, with our GA military production skyrocketing. However, we are not or not likely to win this game on our own or with just Voxes on our side, if we fortify ourselves in the Fortress Legoland and merely wait for others to come for us. We need to actively prevent that from happening in the first place.
But how?
Let's start with a quick summary on the other civs still in the game:
Gathering Storm lost the war that was supposed to keep them in business, so to say. They gained no foothold on Bob and were left contained on Stormia, lacking a crucial strategic resource. Unless they team up with someone else and try their luck again, they are done. They know it. Considering they traded Physics to GoW (learnt that yesterday in the chat through ND not having Physics and GoW not interested in trading for it) and they have not tried to approach us with a proposal to cooperate, it seems quite obvious they are aligning themselves with GoW. I consider this very likely, also because of all their talk about how ND is to dominate Bob after The Great War. The GS embassy in Legopolis does not look like a gesture of good will to me either.
Glory of War is one of the teams that won the war. If you look at the map of Bob carefully, you will realize that it's them gaining most. Not only they won the war, but by winning the war against RP/GS, they manage to peacefully weaken their neighbour and ex-ally, ND. As a payment for the war help, ND is going to transfer some of their cities to GoW. Zayxus was not specific yesterday (I asked him a direct question), but told me that if I imagined an ideal half of Bob from the GoW's point of view (considering where their FP is), I would pretty much have it. This leaves GoW with their well established core, adding much new territory, while stripping ND of most of their past core, forcing them to generally rebuild from scratch in the ex-RP lands. GoW is unlikely to win the game through peaceful building and they know it. So they will look for a target. Their recent tech trade with GS indicates they are not really looking towards Stormia - and it's understandable. GS with no saltpeter poses no threat to them, unlike us (right now) and ND (in the mid to long term view).
One more thing worth noting is that Aggie was, after an extremely successfull war campaign, replaced by Master Zen. If you noticed Aggie's line in the public forum about using an avatar of Julius Caesar (who was assassinated by his fellow Romans)... someone I (and ND, for that matter - Zayxus mentioned that clearly yesterday) trusted very much was replaced by someone famous for his evil plans. I gather that Master Zen replacing Aggie may mean anything but further streghtening of GoW-ND bonds.
Neu Demogyptica is sort of a GoW's complement. They were one of the victorious allies, but their victory came at a very high cost, great deal of it still to be paid. Due to the geography of Bob and the starting locations of ND & GoW, they now have to give up (some of) their most productive cities to GoW, moving southwards (and not being industrious, they'll have some hard time with developing all that new land). This leaves them very vulnerable to attacks from GoW or GS, at least in the short- to mid-term future. They would not be able to keep fighting for long, as they'd have nowhere to build troop replacements (fast enough). ND is fully aware of this. For some reason, they seem to trust us a lot - going as far as seriously considering gifting their cities to us in case things go wrong for them (Zayxus restated this yesterday). So, potential-wise, ND is a match for GoW in the long run, but hopelessly behind for the near future.
Vox Controli is our little brother. Beta's PM indicates they've finished their first build-up phase (likely libraries) and are currently in their second one (marketplaces). They are pondering how to proceed after finishing Democracy. Whether to go full speed ahead along the builder route, relying upon our military to protect them, or slow down research-wise, building their own armed forces (which are now weaker than feeble). As their relatively fast research of Democracy shows, they can and hopefully will really be a worthy tech partner for us.
Roleplayers hate us probably most of all other teams. They believe we betrayed them in The Great War and will likely do everything that inflicts losses or does harm to us. Fortunately, their ability to do harm to us is quite limited by the weakness of their economy. I am not sure if there is anything we can do to change their minds about us - and not sure about whether we need to, anyway.
Now, with all this said, I would like to introduce one idea that has not been discussed yet in our forum. So far, we have been assuming that sooner or later, the remaining three strong teams (GS, GoW, ND) would unite against us in an attempt to deny us the victory that seems inevitable otherwise. Perhaps we should realize that locking ourselves up in this mindset is not necessary. Here is why:
Look at the map and put yourself in GoW's shoes. You need more land to win. You might be able to get some from Lego (requires a naval invasion very soon and with our GA starting, looks like a suicide to try on your own), from GS (requires a naval invasion, gains land far from your core, with no FP to make it useful), and from ND. ND's land is close, requires no naval operations, the territory is quite well charted by your units fighting in The Great War... furthermore, you know how ND is conducting military operations (though they know how you conduct yours, too). Well...
Now GS: you need an ally. An ally that will help you to overcome or, at least, tolerate you overcoming your greatest problem - the lack of territory. It's not Lego, as Lego is you biggest competitor that already made clear it would not tolerate more land for you. Leaves you with ND & GoW. ND is notoriously difficult to deal with + for some reason, you believe that it's ND to fear in the long run (this is one part I do not quite understand - I would expect GS to see the weakness of ND... perhaps GS do not know about the cities ND will have to give up in favour of GoW?). However, when it comes to GoW, the "biggest" reason against allying with them would be just personal grudges... and that you can certainly work around in order to prevent losing the game. If GoW attacks ND from the North and GS from the Southeast in the foreseeable future, ND will fall fast - and GoW with GS split their lands, becoming our equals or even more than that.
At the same time you probably realize that targetting Lego is too difficult because of several reasons. You feel that Lego would be able to successfully defend against two opponents (say, GS+GoW) hampered by having to transport troops overseas. So you either try to get all three powers to ally against Lego, or look for another, indirect way of taking upon the current leader of the game.
ND is in a precarious position. As described elsewhere, they are more or less at the mercy of GoW (and, GS). After giving up their former core (or a major part of it), they will need at least ~100 turns to rebuild their core and get back to full speed economy-wise. Until then, they need to fear almost everybody... or not? GoW is their closest neighbour, in need of more land to win the game. Then the leader/emperor change... GS is in dire need of more land and it was only Lego and GoW preventing the fall of ND in the recent war. Lego, on the other hand, does not need more land to win and need not fear ND even if ND grows back to strength. The only possible thing Lego might envy would be luxes - and if we trade luxes to them, then it's all ok. Out of all other teams, Lego would seem to be the least threat (or, I would think so if being in ND's shoes).
So, here comes the idea I was pondering about for the last few days: let's align ourselves with ND. Fully. Help them massively tech-wise, feed them with great, lopsided deals. Be ready to send or sell them workers to work as slaves, or be added as quick pop points to their cities (which would work well for us in case we get into a war against ND later on, as these citizens would be concerned about fighting their homeland). Discuss & possibly even sign a grand treaty of non-aggression, cooperation, and perhaps even mutual assistance. Let's do all we can to draw them to us, preventing them from staying with GoW or drifting into a grand anti-Lego alliance. If we succeed and break that alliance before it is even created, then we are fine for the next age. If GoW & GS attacks us, we would be able to handle them. Only a total gang-up could break our neck. By the time ND no longer needs our backing and starts having other thoughts, we will be building spaceship parts.
My chat with Zayxus, although completely informal and non-binding, indicated ND would be willing, maybe even happy, to jump in our bed.
OTOH, my much shorter chat with MZ was a bit less cordial. No problems, but when I asked about trading for Military Tradition, he responded rather vaguely - and it was only after I told him plainly that if they do not agree to trade it before we finish Physics, we would go for the tech ourselves (which, btw, I believe we really should) he started to sound easier. I do not say GoW mean harm, but they certainly sound to be at a greater distance from us now.
Now, all this is mostly brainstorming, even if quite thoroughly thought out. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this issue. If we decide to move in one direction or another, we should act fast. Keep in mind our own decision regarding the involvement in The Great War took about 2-3 turns - and afterwards, there was no turning back. Let's stay ahead of others on the diplo front.
With me becoming an informal leader of this nation over the ages, I feel it's my duty to launch a major discussion about our global plans for the next age.
So far in this game, we have been able to reach almost all our objectives, the only notable exception being the GS-Vox War (though, eventually, it didn't end up all that bad for us). In order to keep this stellar track record, we need to set ourselves new goals, so that we can actually reach them. May sound like a natural thing, but ATM, with our GA starting hopefully this coming turn, we will have pretty much reached the objectives we've set ourselves in this game so far.
Simply "doing our best to win from now on" is no goal in the sense of what I'm talking about. We need to figure out how we are going to win, whose help and in what form we solicit, which team(s) we choose as our long-term partner(s) and what we do for them.
By coincidence, I chatted with Master Zen (GoW) and Zayxus (ND) yesterday and got a PM from Beta (Vox) this morning. The chats and PM prompted me to start this thread, because I feel this is a crucial moment in our history.
I believe we would all agree that Legoland has grown into an economic superpower unchallenged by anyone else in the world. Our military is not overwhelming yet, but that should change very soon, with our GA military production skyrocketing. However, we are not or not likely to win this game on our own or with just Voxes on our side, if we fortify ourselves in the Fortress Legoland and merely wait for others to come for us. We need to actively prevent that from happening in the first place.
But how?
Let's start with a quick summary on the other civs still in the game:
Gathering Storm lost the war that was supposed to keep them in business, so to say. They gained no foothold on Bob and were left contained on Stormia, lacking a crucial strategic resource. Unless they team up with someone else and try their luck again, they are done. They know it. Considering they traded Physics to GoW (learnt that yesterday in the chat through ND not having Physics and GoW not interested in trading for it) and they have not tried to approach us with a proposal to cooperate, it seems quite obvious they are aligning themselves with GoW. I consider this very likely, also because of all their talk about how ND is to dominate Bob after The Great War. The GS embassy in Legopolis does not look like a gesture of good will to me either.
Glory of War is one of the teams that won the war. If you look at the map of Bob carefully, you will realize that it's them gaining most. Not only they won the war, but by winning the war against RP/GS, they manage to peacefully weaken their neighbour and ex-ally, ND. As a payment for the war help, ND is going to transfer some of their cities to GoW. Zayxus was not specific yesterday (I asked him a direct question), but told me that if I imagined an ideal half of Bob from the GoW's point of view (considering where their FP is), I would pretty much have it. This leaves GoW with their well established core, adding much new territory, while stripping ND of most of their past core, forcing them to generally rebuild from scratch in the ex-RP lands. GoW is unlikely to win the game through peaceful building and they know it. So they will look for a target. Their recent tech trade with GS indicates they are not really looking towards Stormia - and it's understandable. GS with no saltpeter poses no threat to them, unlike us (right now) and ND (in the mid to long term view).
One more thing worth noting is that Aggie was, after an extremely successfull war campaign, replaced by Master Zen. If you noticed Aggie's line in the public forum about using an avatar of Julius Caesar (who was assassinated by his fellow Romans)... someone I (and ND, for that matter - Zayxus mentioned that clearly yesterday) trusted very much was replaced by someone famous for his evil plans. I gather that Master Zen replacing Aggie may mean anything but further streghtening of GoW-ND bonds.
Neu Demogyptica is sort of a GoW's complement. They were one of the victorious allies, but their victory came at a very high cost, great deal of it still to be paid. Due to the geography of Bob and the starting locations of ND & GoW, they now have to give up (some of) their most productive cities to GoW, moving southwards (and not being industrious, they'll have some hard time with developing all that new land). This leaves them very vulnerable to attacks from GoW or GS, at least in the short- to mid-term future. They would not be able to keep fighting for long, as they'd have nowhere to build troop replacements (fast enough). ND is fully aware of this. For some reason, they seem to trust us a lot - going as far as seriously considering gifting their cities to us in case things go wrong for them (Zayxus restated this yesterday). So, potential-wise, ND is a match for GoW in the long run, but hopelessly behind for the near future.
Vox Controli is our little brother. Beta's PM indicates they've finished their first build-up phase (likely libraries) and are currently in their second one (marketplaces). They are pondering how to proceed after finishing Democracy. Whether to go full speed ahead along the builder route, relying upon our military to protect them, or slow down research-wise, building their own armed forces (which are now weaker than feeble). As their relatively fast research of Democracy shows, they can and hopefully will really be a worthy tech partner for us.
Roleplayers hate us probably most of all other teams. They believe we betrayed them in The Great War and will likely do everything that inflicts losses or does harm to us. Fortunately, their ability to do harm to us is quite limited by the weakness of their economy. I am not sure if there is anything we can do to change their minds about us - and not sure about whether we need to, anyway.
Now, with all this said, I would like to introduce one idea that has not been discussed yet in our forum. So far, we have been assuming that sooner or later, the remaining three strong teams (GS, GoW, ND) would unite against us in an attempt to deny us the victory that seems inevitable otherwise. Perhaps we should realize that locking ourselves up in this mindset is not necessary. Here is why:
Look at the map and put yourself in GoW's shoes. You need more land to win. You might be able to get some from Lego (requires a naval invasion very soon and with our GA starting, looks like a suicide to try on your own), from GS (requires a naval invasion, gains land far from your core, with no FP to make it useful), and from ND. ND's land is close, requires no naval operations, the territory is quite well charted by your units fighting in The Great War... furthermore, you know how ND is conducting military operations (though they know how you conduct yours, too). Well...
Now GS: you need an ally. An ally that will help you to overcome or, at least, tolerate you overcoming your greatest problem - the lack of territory. It's not Lego, as Lego is you biggest competitor that already made clear it would not tolerate more land for you. Leaves you with ND & GoW. ND is notoriously difficult to deal with + for some reason, you believe that it's ND to fear in the long run (this is one part I do not quite understand - I would expect GS to see the weakness of ND... perhaps GS do not know about the cities ND will have to give up in favour of GoW?). However, when it comes to GoW, the "biggest" reason against allying with them would be just personal grudges... and that you can certainly work around in order to prevent losing the game. If GoW attacks ND from the North and GS from the Southeast in the foreseeable future, ND will fall fast - and GoW with GS split their lands, becoming our equals or even more than that.
At the same time you probably realize that targetting Lego is too difficult because of several reasons. You feel that Lego would be able to successfully defend against two opponents (say, GS+GoW) hampered by having to transport troops overseas. So you either try to get all three powers to ally against Lego, or look for another, indirect way of taking upon the current leader of the game.
ND is in a precarious position. As described elsewhere, they are more or less at the mercy of GoW (and, GS). After giving up their former core (or a major part of it), they will need at least ~100 turns to rebuild their core and get back to full speed economy-wise. Until then, they need to fear almost everybody... or not? GoW is their closest neighbour, in need of more land to win the game. Then the leader/emperor change... GS is in dire need of more land and it was only Lego and GoW preventing the fall of ND in the recent war. Lego, on the other hand, does not need more land to win and need not fear ND even if ND grows back to strength. The only possible thing Lego might envy would be luxes - and if we trade luxes to them, then it's all ok. Out of all other teams, Lego would seem to be the least threat (or, I would think so if being in ND's shoes).
So, here comes the idea I was pondering about for the last few days: let's align ourselves with ND. Fully. Help them massively tech-wise, feed them with great, lopsided deals. Be ready to send or sell them workers to work as slaves, or be added as quick pop points to their cities (which would work well for us in case we get into a war against ND later on, as these citizens would be concerned about fighting their homeland). Discuss & possibly even sign a grand treaty of non-aggression, cooperation, and perhaps even mutual assistance. Let's do all we can to draw them to us, preventing them from staying with GoW or drifting into a grand anti-Lego alliance. If we succeed and break that alliance before it is even created, then we are fine for the next age. If GoW & GS attacks us, we would be able to handle them. Only a total gang-up could break our neck. By the time ND no longer needs our backing and starts having other thoughts, we will be building spaceship parts.
My chat with Zayxus, although completely informal and non-binding, indicated ND would be willing, maybe even happy, to jump in our bed.
OTOH, my much shorter chat with MZ was a bit less cordial. No problems, but when I asked about trading for Military Tradition, he responded rather vaguely - and it was only after I told him plainly that if they do not agree to trade it before we finish Physics, we would go for the tech ourselves (which, btw, I believe we really should) he started to sound easier. I do not say GoW mean harm, but they certainly sound to be at a greater distance from us now.
Now, all this is mostly brainstorming, even if quite thoroughly thought out. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this issue. If we decide to move in one direction or another, we should act fast. Keep in mind our own decision regarding the involvement in The Great War took about 2-3 turns - and afterwards, there was no turning back. Let's stay ahead of others on the diplo front.
However, consider another:
but ND probably is the best ally. 
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