Holy GS landing batman!

[Kloreep]

Panzer is chatting with me, Sharpe, and Nimitz right now.

GS has landed 4 pikes and 12 Knights on a mountain S-SE-SE of Yellowknife.

We are discussing the situation with Panzer but trying to be as non-committal as possible. So far the subject of the LEFs have not come up.

Here's an image (posted with Panzer's permission):

[Kloreep]

Log

* Now talking in #gow
Kloreep> Hi
Sharpe> Hi!
Panzer32> is Nimitz coming?
Sharpe> I posted in the Lego chatroom , so not sure
Sharpe> If he wants to be FAM I would recommend it
* Nimitz has joined #gow
* Panzer32 sets mode: +k jekc
Panzer32> hey Nimitz
Nimitz> hey
* Panzer32 sets mode: +ooo Kloreep Nimitz Sharpe
Nimitz> long time
Panzer32> ok I just got the save and I just came across some important information
Nimitz> ya
Panzer32> GS has invaded GoW mainland
Sharpe> where?
Panzer32> http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Pan...SINVASION1.JPG
Panzer32> near Yellowknife
Panzer32> not near our core but still threatening
Panzer32> btw, we just got the save so I'm doing this as a privateer for now
Nimitz> lol
Sharpe> k, looks a large force..
Nimitz> 4 pikes and abunch of knights
Kloreep> Mind if I link that pic in the Lego forum?
Panzer32> we have 5 riders in the immediate area and have about 7 riders and 3 horsemen in our core
Panzer32> no go ahead Klo
Sharpe> how well are the cities in that area defended?
Sharpe> vis a vis are there any musketmen there yet
Panzer32> no muskets, just pikes
Panzer32> technically the cities aren't defended but there are 4 pikes making a sea wall (but not at that mountain )
Nimitz> ok that is troublesome
Panzer32> the closest barracks for upgrade is in Skulgaria but that is a 2 turn round trip for pikes
Sharpe> Skulgaria is a good place to gather your forces to stop GS - I would imagine that your cities east of there are very corrupt...
Panzer32> yeah... I think we can stop them earlier though
Panzer32> I'll admit I'm the Lord of that area so I don't want them to conquer it
Panzer32> brb
Sharpe> are you sure you are the target? from that spot they can attack either you or ND
Panzer32> back
Panzer32> it takes them 3 turns to nearest ND city, 2 turns to 2 GoW cities
Sharpe> and admittedly there are more GoW cities in that area
Panzer32> looking at it, I would say Yellowknife would be the first target
Sharpe> yeah, although probably Port Isolation is the ultimate target
Panzer32> right
Panzer32> the thing is, if they get Yellowknife, Port isolation is only 1 knight trip away. otherwise it is 2.
Panzer32> (depending where they move of course)
Panzer32> Yel. is the most strategic city there, the road network goes right through it
Nimitz> hmm
* Nimitz sets mode: +s
Panzer32> well thats basically it for now
Sharpe> k, thanks for the early info
Panzer32> I imagine we will discuss a strategy in gow and will be able to tell you more either tonight or tommorrow
Sharpe> k

[ZargonX]

Well, not entirely unexpected news, but the lack of GoW defenses is a little disturbing. If we could see something like that coming, I don't know how they couldn't Oh well. There has been no official request for Lego intervention yet, so let's hold until we see if they ask us for it.

[vondrack]

Hm, looking at the picure, I do not really see how we could avoid getting our units engaged within several turns - it will be in our own interest to not let GS gain anything substantial with this new stack. Fortunately, LEF1-2-3 are almost in position near Macao. And the GS stack will need a couple of turns to get somewhere they will be able to do real harm.

I believe LEF4 shall leave for Bob this turn, followed by a musket-only LEF5 a turn later.

THIS is what LEF was meant for. That's why GoW kept their cities lightly or not defended in this area. OUR units are supposed to help now.

Let's wait what GoW asks us for, though...

[Tiberius]

I too believe we won't be able to not get involved this time. This is exactly why we sent LEF there: to protect N-E Bob from GS.

Send LEF4. A musket only LEF5 is also a good idea. Depending on GS's commitment for the northern front, we must consider sending more troops in the future (cats + knights). We must definitely build them for now, even if we won't send them.

We must also write a declaration of war to GS. Good manners require to send one before we attack their stack Besides our luxury-trade agreement we have with them requires a preliminary warning (one turn ahead) before cancelling the luxury trade.

So IMHO we should write a warning message to GS NOW (perhaps on our turn), making it clear that if they do not retreat from N-E Bob, we would :
1. cancel the luxury trade next turn (trade embargo) and
2. seriously consider engaging militarily agaist them

[ZargonX]

I would hold off sending any messages for at least one more turn. Let the stack indicate where its going, and let GoW communicate with us how condifent/unconfident they are feeling about it militarily. We don't want to jump the diplomatic gun and make trouble for ourselves if we ultimately don't have to, so no need to rush. And I wouldn't phrase it as a declaration of war, more as a stern warning that if they don't get off Bob, we're there to "peacekeep"

[redstar1]

Is it not in our interests to 'counter-attack' GS? I understand however that GOW/ND units in the area are somewhat scarce.

Perhaps we should indicate our concern at 'information' that has been brought to our attention and inquire as to GS' overall intentions. We may be able to stall them slightly. Time can only be our freind in this situation.

[vondrack]

Considering that even the already sent LEF groups are not yet in a position to engage the GS stack, I would prepare the note to GS, but not send it until we have a better idea about the general plan and things to come.

Whether we word it as a stern warning or declaration of war is not al that important, I think - the meaning will be the same either way. If GS moves towards GoW or ND (and they WILL move in that direction, that's as clear as a day), we will have to attack them - so we better word it so that we do not need to send another note when we need to strike them.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by redstar1
Is it not in our interests to 'counter-attack' GS? I understand however that GOW/ND units in the area are somewhat scarce.

I believe that the best course of action would be to let GoW or ND defend a city (probably losing it), forcing the GS knights to bleed, with our LEF troops striking immediately afterwards.

We should do our best to avoid getting attacked before delivering the first blow - with no dedicated defenders, we would lose high-punch units we need.

[lmtoops]

We need to send a stern warning on this turn. As Vondrack stated, then no other warning is necessary.

Hopefully they will be surprised to see our LEF units, so soon. GS may be thinking that our invasion units have not left Bob, in which case the Lego forces are several turn away.

We need to buy at least two turns so we can position the LEF units. Sacraficing a GoW city would buy us a 2-3 turns. I think this would be the best plan of action.

LEF4 must sail on this turn. Followed by LEF5 (defense) and then we can open the flood gates of LEF units.

[Tiberius]

Why should we wait with the message? What could happen in 2 turns? We will be closer to them, yes, but other than that? Do you think that they will suddenly change their minds and retreat? Or that GoW will gather enough forces to defend their homeland?

If we want to give GS a chance to withdraw we must send the message now, before any fighting takes place; after that there will be no turning back.

I suggest to write the message as an ultimatum: retreat from northern/eastern Bob or face the following Lego actions:
- trade and tech embargo starting in 2 turns (to avoid breaking the luxury deal; with the one turn ahead warning we can cancel it peacefully)
- could we maybe consult with Vox and ask them to join the embargo ? It wouldn't have too much of a practical importance, however the phsychological blow may worth it;
- possible military actions anytime in the near future (we must avoid using exact dates; they probably don't know about LEF)

Important is to make it clear: if they attack any GoW or ND city (not the conquered spanish ones) means declaration of war against Legoland. This way we won't need to send another message later.

As for the war itself, I suggest to ask for a RoP with GoW and ND only after sending the warning to GS. We won't be able to fight in the next 2 or 3 turns, so yes, sacrificing a GoW city and counterattacking after that seems the best idea. We must avoid any fighting until all of LEF (1+2+3) are together and can act in one stack.
Luckily Yellowkife and Post Isolation are both on grassland and we won't need to attack pikes on hills.

[vondrack]

Heh... I have just had a really wicked idea... what if we let the GS stack approach Yellowknife (1 turn) and then have the city gifted to us?

We would:

1) pull the same dirty trick on GS they pulled on GoW, teaching them that what they do not want others do to them, they should never do themselves in the first place
2) force GS to declare war on us, rather than the other way round (+they will have to cancel the deal first, which will cost them an extra turn)
3) be able to defend the city with up to 9 fortified "pikes" (=knights) that would not allow the attacking knights to withdraw if losing, thus inflicting significant losses

What do you think?

[ZargonX]

Perhaps a two step process involving both ideas: Warn them not to move against NE Bob, and if they do, pull the city-gift trick. Even if we don't get defenses there in time, if they take the city, it still gives us the happiness boost, and who can argue with that

[vondrack]

Yeah, the happiness boost, that's the ticket...

But seriously - not a bad idea. Warn them now that they are getting into troubles. If they do not withdraw (and they will not), pull the city-gift trick, delaying them.

[lmtoops]

My only problem is to resort to a "trick". I suppose it is a legal trick, since if has been used often enough. Hey if GS used it (Honor Code and all) it must be acceptable.

I suppose with a stern and clear warning and if GS continues to advance on the Yellowknife, we should pull the city-gift tactic (calling it a tactic sound much better ) I think GoW would go for this tactic.