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On the Application of Power

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  • On the Application of Power

    Recent events in the world have shown that what was once a vast and unsettle frontier has become a crowded, turbulent land. Our island home, isolated though it is physically, is no longer insulated from what goes on in the rest of the world. Conflict is coming, and we can no longer afford to sit on the sidelines. Should we do so, though our lands may remain ours, victory will be beyond our reach. My point, therefore, is:

    If Gathering Storm invades Bob, we MUST intervene militarily.

    I know we are a peaceful people at heart, and have managed to stay out of wars thus far. The cost of staying out of this potential war, though, is too great to ignore. Follow the possible scenarios if the war should occur, and we do not get directly involved (even if we are supplying money or tech).

    -GS conquers ND and controls the southern half of Bob. GoW is the next target, and once they are defeated, GS wins via domination.
    -GS conquers ND and controls southern Bob. GoW begs and pleads for an alliance, and they invade Legos as a combined force. We are either conquered or crippled.
    -GS conquers ND, controls half of Bob, and stops fighting. They control half the world, and set themselves up for some uber-building. We would be forced to fight them anyway unless we just wanted to hand the game to them in the long run.
    -ND and GoW together defeat GS and drive them off of Bob. GS still lives on as a threat, and general resentment grows towards Lego as we are the only civ that remains “unscathed.” On top of that, we will be perceived as “weak” if we are incapable of providing any military aid.


    These are, of course, all hypothetical situations. However, I think they are all very likely situations should we remain on the sidelines. The real issue is power: who has it, and what they do with it. Right now, GS is considered the greatest power in the world for several reasons:

    -They have the strongest industrial base.
    -They have demonstrated supreme military skill in the Vox war.
    -They are a team of respected strategists.


    Now, it is entirely possible that we could match GS’ industrial capacity, given time. They would still be considered the stronger team, though, for reasons 2 and 3. Lego has fought no wars, and has shown no military might at all. We are also a team of self-proclaimed builders, and that does not give us an aura of power, either. While the breakdown of the numbers may show us as “powerful,” the difference between perceived power and actual power is an important one.

    Hence, as I have said, it is time we change the perception of our power. A show of force in assisting a GoW-ND alliance has multiple benefits for us.

    -We potentially help keep GS from winning the game.
    -We show that we are willing and capable of acting outside Legos.
    -If the GoW-ND alliance wins, they are in our debt, and will also perceive us as a powerful ally, instead of a potentially weak pacifist.
    -If the GoW-ND alliance loses, well, that’s pretty much the game. So we have to make sure they don’t lose!


    As you can see, the choice is quite clear: action must be taken. This will require some sacrifices on our part. Certain builds will have to be put aside, and other “master plans” may have to be changed or eliminated. It may seem painful, but it is necessary. We are playing with human beings, they cannot be counted on like the AI to just let you go about your business so long as you pay them off once in a while.

    The makeup of a Bob expeditionary force is, of course, something that will be decided upon later. As things stand now, it is unclear whether GS will make the move to invade Bob. The moment they do, however, a 3-way conference must be called between us, ND, and GoW.

    You have now heard my position on the matter, and seen my reasoning. I hope that you agree with me, and if you don’t, I would like to hear your reasons. Just remember what I have said, and the potential outcomes of our inaction. Just remember that history will not forgive Lego if we stand idly by and throw away our future because we were unwilling to act.
    I make movies. Come check 'em out.

  • #2
    I agree!!

    I've been suggested building an invasion fleet, but that was for a potential need. The resent developments have shown that the need is actual. The make up can be discussed. The landing sites and movements must be coordinated with the other our allies.

    We must shift our economy NOW, to support the war effort.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, yes, I basically agree, too.

      We will get involved in this war, directly, that's for sure, I believe. BUT - I don't think we should publicly declare so without actually being able to make any difference.

      Let us:

      1) put emphasis on building a transport fleet. Jackson, Zargonia, Kloreepville, Forkmouth... we need the transport capacity of about 15-20 units. That's two galley-to-caravel (20 gold) upgrades plus 3-4 more caravel (40-shield) builds.

      2) put emphasis on mobile expeditionary force. Knights, knights, knights... Our barracked cities should focus on building these, inserting a merc only occasionally.

      3) set our GOAL, or EXTENT of our help to ND+GoW. While having GS seize the whole of Bob is definitely bad for us, helping GoW or, particularly, ND to overrun RPers easily, resulting in a 2-civ Bob is not that great either... I would consider making a secret agreement with GS that we will not attack them on Stormia and they will not attack us on Legos. This should ensure both of us remain strong enough to counter any unexpected moves by GoW+ND (keep in mind those two teams may want to win the game, too).

      4) keep in mind that we have an NAP with RPers till 1000AD - if we are not ready (and I believe we are not) to break a treaty, we shall avoid attacking them directly. Thus, our help shall be limited to the GoW+ND vs. GS front. Make this clear with ND and GoW - we should not go for helping them destroy RPers, that's their own business. But we shall protect them from being destroyed or crippled by GS.

      5) not cut on expansion at this point. Let's finish all the settlers and keep expanding - the steep rise in our powergraph rating may actually help keep GS in check better that 10-15 of our knights. Once we finish the FP in Karina, we shall catch up a bit on GS in terms of the overall power and economy output.

      6) set some sort of a timeline or time schedule. Without any detailed calculations, I would consider 20 turns a fair estimate... we shall have the FP finished, Bach's almost done, and a couple of new cities founded, up , and running.

      7) make it clear to GS that we are not looking favourably at their expansion to Bob. Let's set a clearly defined line (like 2, 3, 4 cities... whatever) beyond which we will automatically intervene. Make it so that it will be THEM pulling the trigger.

      8) assure GoW+ND that we are going to intervene, if they get into troubles (and work towards actually being able to intervene). But make it clear that we are NOT going to intervene unless they get into troubles.

      That's what I can think of right now... will add more later, perhaps.

      Comment


      • #4
        In response to Vondrack's points...

        1) Agreed. We certainly aren't going to be much use if we can't get there.

        2) Also agreed. This is going to be an offensive operation, not a defensive one. Knights will be key, with a few defensive units thrown in to protect the stacks.

        3) An interesting proposal. I do like the idea of limited war, but it may be hard to convince GS of this if we actively go to war with them. I have a feeling that if they think they can strike as at home, they'll go for it. But, like you said, a protective clasuse against GoW/ND is something to think about.

        4)I had sort of counted RP out of the consideration. Our war would not be with them, certainly. Now, if THEY break the treaty, that's a different story.

        5)Definately keep expanding at home. We have lots of room we aren't using, and we need to catch up on cities. The FP is going to be huge help, making the south a viable area.

        6)It's hard to set timelines until we see what GS is going to do, and how the opening rounds of any war go. If GS has some stunning victories, we may need to speed things up a bit. Time will tell...

        7)Another definate possibility. We had discussed that option before, with making a public statement. I think we should actually go ahead and do that if they war with ND officially.

        8)Yup, a three-team summit would be needed to discuss the exact conditions of aid, etc. Plus, once war begins, we must coordinate very closely with our allies. 3 teams pummeling GS in a well-planned campaign should prove quite difficult for them to deal with.
        I make movies. Come check 'em out.

        Comment


        • #5
          In principle I agree, too. I don't think we can avoid on the long term getting involved in this war.
          Unfortunately the choices are not very good, either. Neither a 2-civ Bob, nor a big GS is a very good outcome.

          So, while I agree that shifting our economy toward war preparation (a fleet + mobile attack units) is a necessary thing to do, I think we can do more on the short term:

          1. Talk to ND and GoW, see what's their stance on this. I'd talk and coordinate especially with ND. Despite their name, GoW seems more, hmm, opportunistic (I almost said "cowards" ). ND did have the guts to conquer a GS city while GoW did not. Also don't forget past GoW involment in previous wars. That was rather pathetic. They might ally in the end with GS, if GS could make them believe that the results may be better for GoW than working against them, or if they fear GS too much. ND seems more trustworthy for me.

          2. Let's see what help we can offer to ND (and GoW, should they really fight against GS) now. For example, we could postpone the luxury part of our previous deal, and go for a straight luxury for luxury trade with them. Or we could offer cheaper techs, so that they could concentrate solely on building military units. I agree with Radek, let's offer our help now, see what they need and intervene militarily only when they will ask for it. Fortunately this will also give us time.

          3. This should be No.1, in fact: talk to GS, make it clear that we won't tolerate more than n GS cities on Bob. If not, threaten with trade and tech embargo against them, economic help for their enemies, and even direct military involvement in the worst case scenario.

          Regarding our economy: I think we must specialize our cities even more. We should focus the commerce rich cities (Red Bricks, Panama, Dye Fields, etc) on economic and scientific development while the others, high productive cities, on military build-up. Fortunately with the FP up and running, the situation in the south will be much better.
          "The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
          --George Bernard Shaw
          A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
          --Woody Allen

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          • #6
            Now we talking! Lets talk to GOW and ND and get their opinions on this....
            Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

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