Historian's Thread

[Jon Shafer]

I've started a new thread, for this purpose, and though I could have used the thread that GF set up to warn you all of my presence, I try to view my role as more important than being labelled "chicken hunting."

Luckily (for me), I've been quite active on the Vox-GOW front lately, so I don't think there's anything I'm too unsure of that's going on. More 'wait-and-see how things go' from GOW's POV.

[Zero]

that answers my question. You can post. ok anyways....

Trip, I hope you salvaged whatever is left of Lux forum before because almost all of the threads are being deleted.

If you want to archive Lux stuff from history as well.

[Jon Shafer]

Perhaps GOW has something they would like to submit for the Chronicle on recent matters?

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Trip
Perhaps GOW has something they would like to submit for the Chronicle on recent matters?

The Story of how Trip Sneaked Into our Forums?

[Panzer32]

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Master Zen
The Story of how Trip Sneaked Into our Forums?

Or what he sneaked out.

What are you guys doing with GS and Vox? Are you still going to assist Vox against GS? Are you afraid of what GS might do with that 200 gold?

[Master Zen]

I'm not particualry fine with the idea of handing over 200 gold to GS...

The deal is favorable to us in the long run but it might tip the balance of the Vox-GS war in GS's favor.

[Hot_Enamel]

We have agreed to help - So we will.

Unless Vox runs completely over GS...then I suspect we may not be needed.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

There's a stack of 26 Vox units on one tile on the road south. I have no idea how many more they have but that's one well defended tile.

[Donegeal]

I don't know what tile you saw, but I only saw a stack of like 16....

[Hot_Enamel]

Here is something interesting for the historian.

GS was warned of a immortal attack......


We were discussing some recent trades, and I think GF made the comment that Vox would be the richest Civ on the planet.

On another thread, UnOrThOdOx made a comment that GS would be doing a "plan gold" (Chariots -> Horsemen)

It hit me that there was a real threat that Vox would do a "Plan Gold" warriors -> Immortals.
We thought GS & Vox may be in an aliance, and so I began to get worried on who Vox would attack with so many immortals. (assuming they were doing a plan gold)
The obvious choice would be GoW.

We accused GS to being in an aliance with Vox, and the following chat occured

Note : - I have edited out some of the non-relevent chat

Session Start: Fri Mar 21 23:01:00 2003

[00:14] zeit> First, i'd like to clarfify this one thing about our relations with Vox.
[00:15] zeit> It is of no military nature, like i said before, and includes no sort of protection pact
[00:16] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> If I was stuck on an island, with Persia, I would work damn hard on getting a MPP / alliance
[00:17] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Vox is a loose canon
[00:19] Shiber[GS]> the thing with Vox is, we don't quite trust them
[00:19] Shiber[GS]> mostly because they're so unstable
[00:20] zeit> and have little confidence in their own play
[00:20] Shiber[GS]> anyway, we've told you already - we don't have any NAPs or MPPs or any other such agreements with Vox. This cross-examination is unnecessary.
[00:20] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We dont really care if you do or dont
[00:21] Shiber[GS]> why is it that GoW worries so much about Vox?
[00:21] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> This is our concern
[00:22] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Vox is hording money
[00:22] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], explain please
[00:22] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Why are vox hording money ?
[00:22] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Plan Gold ?
[00:22] Shiber[GS]> how are they hording money?
[00:22] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Warrior -> Immortals
[00:23] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], how do you know that they are hording up gold? And why do you think that they intend to attack your team in particular?
[00:23] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> ok -
[00:23] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> They tend to prefer money for tech
[00:27] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> I will tell you what has us concerned
[00:27] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We are worried about warriors -> Immortal
[00:28] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Vox is 1 tile from our continent
[00:28] zeit> so are we concerned with it, and keep an eye on the border
[00:28] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Our problem is - you dont seem concerned
[00:28] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> You have a border agreement with the them.
[00:28] Panzer32[GoW]> Vox has the potential to be a direct threat. Like Cuba threatening US.
[00:28] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> You have a tech alliance with them
[00:29] Shiber[GS]> yes, that's simply to save us the bother of REXing over growth
[00:29] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Therefore it is not a giant leap to assume you have a MPP or other with them
[00:29] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> If they are building immortals and are not going to attack you
[00:29] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], we've told you already - there is no MPP between GS and Vox.
[00:29] zeit> it's not, but i tell you we have none, why are we back to square 1?
[00:29] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Then who do they attack
[00:29] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], how do you know that they're not going to attack us?
[00:29] Shiber[GS]> honestly, we don't know either
[00:30] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> OK - 1 step back
[00:30] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We assumed you had a MPP
[00:30] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> therefore we assume we would be their target
[00:30] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We can handle them 1 vs 1
[00:30] Shiber[GS]> okay, we understand where you're coming from and the logic behind your assumption - but it is false.
[00:30] zeit> But i hope that now you understand we don't have an MPP
[00:30] Shiber[GS]> i can guarantee you that
[00:30] Shiber[GS]> on my word
[00:30] zeit> Shiber - ;
[00:30] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> OK - No Probs
[00:30] zeit>
[00:31] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> This is where we are coming from - no acusations
[00:31] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We can handle them 1 vs 1
[00:31] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> But if we are drawn into a Bob war ????
[00:31] Shiber[GS]> So, if I understand you correctly: you can handle Vox 1 on 1, but you are afraid that a war with Vox would leave you open to attacks from ND and RP?
[00:31] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We would need to cover two fronts
[00:31] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Yes
[00:32] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We could do it ... but it would be a defensive war
[00:32] Shiber[GS]> well, you know that GS has an interest in GoW. You are our best friends on Bob
[00:33] Shiber[GS]> therefore, although i can't commit to anything, i am sure that we will do whatever we can within reasonable limits to help you out
[00:33] zeit> i concur
[00:33] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> I think we would like to explore that
[00:33] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We have no interest in your continent
[00:33] Shiber[GS]> would GoW be interested in an agreement where GS were to attack Vox in case it declared war on you?
[00:33] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We are concerned about Vox
[00:34] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> That would be of great interest to us
[00:34] Panzer32[GoW]> would it work the other way? Or only one way?
[00:34] Shiber[GS]> alternatively, we can just ask Vox not to attack you. While we have no power over their decisions, it might sway them from the notion
[00:34] Donegeal[GoW]> Shiber... that is an interesting idea...
[00:34] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> How can you ask that ?
[00:35] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Do you have that close of relations with them ?
[00:35] Shiber[GS]> Panzer32[GoW], we are confident on our side.
[00:35] zeit> i hardly think our team would approve an MPP against Vox, but we could put some pressure on them
[00:35] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> It would only come into effect, if war breaks out on Bob
[00:36] zeit> Of course, but wars break on Bob all the time...
[00:36] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Let Bob sort out their own problems without having to worry about Vox or GS
[00:36] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], hardly, but if we tell them something the sort of "we have heard this and that and we would suggest that you do not attack GoW", they might think that we're going to attack them in case they attack you - whether or not we actually have an agreement to do so
[00:36] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We would have to discuss the wording very carefully
[00:37] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> We thought Vox v GS war was inevitable
[00:37] Shiber[GS]> in any case, we could try to work our a draft for an agreement where GS is obliged to attack Vox in case it attacks GoW (but not the other way around, as we see no need to this)
[00:37] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> But when nothing happened...we jumped to the comclusion that you are in league
[00:37] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], don't be so sure. Vox are scared of us AFAIK, and GS are not of imperialistic nature.

[00:45] Panzer32[GoW]> As I said, How much of the continent around Vox has been mapped by GS?
[00:46] Shiber[GS]> Panzer32[GoW]: we have drawn a border line, and each team has explored a little beyond this line.
[00:46] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> is it 50-50 ?
[00:46] Shiber[GS]> plus, during talks, we gave each other general descriptions of the land that the other can't see
[00:47] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> who got the better deal ?
[00:49] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], Vox also knows that we got the better deal. We agreed that GS is to get the larger part of the continent because without a border treaty, we would win in a REX race anyway
[00:49] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Well done
[00:49] Shiber[GS]> we both agreed that GS could get more than what it secured for itself if both teams were to REX it out, but we also agreed that REXing is expensive, and comes at the expense of early growth and development
[00:50] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Again - Good deal
[00:51] Shiber[GS]> so we decided to get less of the continent than we could have gotten (so perhaps, thinking in those terms, Vox were the ones to get the better deal out of it?), but we secured the ancient age border-wise and thus allowed ourselves to develop our cities instead of going into a senseless REX war
[00:51] Shiber[GS]> first of all, it took us a LOOONG while to get to this agreement
[00:51] Shiber[GS]> in the mean time, Vox kept provoking us
[00:51] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> So they are aggressive ?
[00:51] Shiber[GS]> later on, they brought in Lux - without asking us for our opinion.
[00:52] Shiber[GS]> Hot_Enamel[GoW], more senseless than aggressive
[00:52] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> That worrys us
[00:52] Shiber[GS]> i don't think they were counting on an early war, IMHO they just thought that we would be scared and submit
[00:53] Panzer32[GoW]> they wanted to hold off the war chariots until they get immortals...
[00:53] Shiber[GS]> Panzer32[GoW], perhaps
[00:53] Shiber[GS]> but now we are several times more powerful than them production-wise, so they probably abandoned all plans for war with us by now
[00:54] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Again - That is what worries us
[00:54] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> Why waste their immortals
[00:54] Hot_Enamel[GoW]> They will want to attack someone

24 hours after this chat happened, we got the save, and stumbled across the 1st Voxian landing party. I am quite certain, that if we had not forced them off the island, we would be surounded by immortals instead of GS.

I warned GS again of a warrior -> immortal upgrade in an emergency chat session seeking their help to remove the Voxian invaders. They assured me they could mount pressure on Vox to remove their forces.


If GS is destroyed by Vox...the historian can mark their death as "suicide by arrogance"

They did not heed my warning and thought that "Vox are scared of us AFAIK"

Regs

[Panzer32]

Trip needs to be reauthorized into the forum since he was banned from poly and got removed from all the civgroups...

GhengisFarb, if you're around... could you reauthorize him?

If GF's not around or can't login or something... I guess we just have to wait a bit.

[Jon Shafer]

I can post in any subscribed threads even though I'm not admitted to the team.

So admit me!

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Trip
I can post in any subscribed threads even though I'm not admitted to the team.

So admit me!

Ah, I see the famous vBulleting private forum bug that we supposedly abused is far worse than I though...