The WAR of RETRIBUTION II

[Master Zen]

WAR OF EVEN LATEST RETRIBUTION VII

[GhengisFarb™]

Vox is GIVING us the city this turn, in return we agree to send 1-3 galleys of Horsemen to fight GS (something we seem to want to do anyway).

[Master Zen]

I was in the chat for a while (wasn't paying attention at first until donegeal slapped me with a trout and woke me up )

It seems Vox is acting really strange. Either this was the most stupid thing they have ever done or they are still hiding something.

And I am STILL worried about what GS is up to. Nothing good I am sure. From what I heard about earlier, it seems wierd that suddenly Vox springs into action, looking first for a fight on Bob and now war against their neighbor...

[Zero]

I was ambassador to Vox Controli and I talked to Beta alot. I dont know just how much information was shared between the two of you, but there was alot that we shared.

-Vox is big on bluff. They survived few times just by bluffing. GS could have wiped them out very early on in the game but they discouraged them by pretending that their continent was connected and Lux(well they didnt know it was lux then) can come to aid them.

-Vox team is unfourtunately undermanned and has poor organization. It's really not their fault, but that equals to alot of mistakes. (somethign Im all too familiar with )

-Unless something happened after Lux was extinct, Vox and GS werent in good terms. Vox had us (when we were FAR superior compared to them) close just in case GS would make move agst them. GS back then couldnt have had a friendly relations because Vox had nothign to offer. Only reason why Vox wasnt gobbled up for more territory was stated above and GS had logistics problem (WC would have been vulnerable in moutainous region) Since they have Immortals and most of our assets went to Vox, things may have changed, but GS probably still wont be completely friendly to them because of Immortal threat.

-I'd worry about some kind of cooperation between ND and Vox. That would be the most likely of all the joint scenario. (GS being least then RP)

-If I were to look at the MOST OPTIMISTIC POV, This is how I would analyze the situation:

Vox is suffocating because GS is right under them with no room to expand south. the northern part of island isnt too large and they are seeking a place to expand. Since Lux's previous space is free (and very close to Vox) They probably thought the only frontier they have available would be to grab that space. In that way, even if War between GS erupts, Vox's existence is guaranteed. But now, they meet all this objection by world community, seeing them as threathening etc, but they have nowhere else to settle. Their only option then is to press southward. Something they cannot do alone. So they will give away the city for an aid to help them expand southward.

-Most pessimistic POV.

Somehow, GS and Vox agreed to an allaince/friendly relations, Vox seeking to expans to new continent, realizes they made error. Abandons invasion process for now, seeks civ like ND capable of pincer attacking us while we send troops to GS. Ask us to help them in phony war agst GS.

[Master Zen]

The is a lot of logic in the optimistic PoV if you ask me. BetaHound's attitude also seems to suggest this possibility.

Of course, the pessimist PoV is also a possiblity. Honestly I don't trust them. I don't trust anybody. Victory in this game is knowing who to attack at the moment they are weakest so that they may not do the same to you. That means friend or foe...

[Zero]

Originally posted by Master Zen
The is a lot of logic in the optimistic PoV if you ask me. BetaHound's attitude also seems to suggest this possibility.

Of course, the pessimist PoV is also a possiblity. Honestly I don't trust them. I don't trust anybody. Victory in this game is knowing who to attack at the moment they are weakest so that they may not do the same to you. That means friend or foe...

optimistic POV is very much a possibility, considering just how much I am familiar with Vox's problem of no room to expand. In fact, just recently I saw in a public forum GS and Vox stating the same fact I have stated. GS has incentive to support Vox from expanding away form their continent (They monopololize more of their own continent w/o security risk) and Vox has incentive to expand out of continent (They cant handle GS... just as I thought).

There is 2 solution to this problem: Originally I only thoguth of one, but inlight of the new situation we can try the second plan (which i think is much more benficial to us)

1. We discourage Vox from expanding into our continent by helping them expand in their own continent. As a price for our effort, we will gain their settled city as well as anything they are willing to deal out. This will place us in war with the GS.

2. We put both Mil alliance agst GS and anti-Vox invasion campaign on hold and attack ND. Since ND is the biggest badboy in our continent, we could use an extra immortal help. We are gonna have to take care of ND at one point anyway, and if we leave them alone, they will just end up getting bigger and bigger headache for later. Vox will be forced to join our military crusade whether they like it or not because of the current situation (ND declared war on them) And if that doesnt take enough to convince Vox to help us, we can promise the next war will be targetted toward GS and They will be allowed to colonize whatever they get from GS as they move out of our continent.

[Master Zen]

Well now that ND officially declared war on them...

If Vox has 10 immortals like they claim, they can surely land them supposeddly to fight ND. As ND reacts, we strike against ND. I like it, I like it...

And I for one would intend to keep my word at attacking GS.

Questions:

1) If Vox committs itself with us and RP for a war against ND, how will we know that GS will not use this opportunity to strike at Vox? That's what I'd do...

2) Would RP get a little too poweful if they had a share of the spoils from war with ND?

3) Are we militarily capable of taking out ND?

other than these naggin' doubts, I fully support War Plan II

[Donegeal]

No, we are currently not capable of taking out ND militarily on our own. Fortunately, with the city placement strat we have been following, I think ND could not take us out even if it had the help of RP. Most of our cities are built on hills. Each spear defends like a Hopolite. Who want to fight Hopolites in the ancient age?

[Panzer32]

We go foreward with the GS campaign, wait for chivalry, then get RP and split Bob with ND.

[realpolitic]

CalcII's assesment of Vox doesn't surprise me. Immortals could be used to bully. It seemed Trip used the same tactics, trying to claim more than he could. I think we should delay sending the horsemen until we have a clear idea what's going on. If Vox is a phony, they'll probably pull a Bush League tactic like attacking us anyway.


If the optimistic POV is true, then all we'll suffer is a rep hit, maybe smaller if we justify it, if the pessimistic POV is true, we are risking extinction (from 3 civs).