The WAR of RETRIBUTION

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

We can't actually do anything for a few turns so teh declaration of war could wait a bit. I want to make sure Lux coughs up Mysticism.

[Hot_Enamel]

Is ND going to hold off on the declaration ?
Are they expecting us to declare on the same round ?

It almost sounds like ND could finish them off without our help

Lux could attach some conditions to mysticsm..like a NAP. It is currently not part of the deal, but if they are expecting us to attack them, then we may not get it.

Good Luck

[Panzer32]

From NDG with save:
"So now our Army has marched to the Gates of Regio.
Nex move will be the Attack.
Lux said that they had an Alliance with RPG interesting! We will find out soon enough....."

The war starts next turn... at least for ND. I think we should only declare war when we are in a position to attack.

From the 1725 save, I think something like this:

1725: Found city 2N of Barbarian camp; build road connecting it - get horses to Imperial City. Change builds in Imp. City and Cape cod to horses. (2 turns, 4 turns)

1700: Pop rush Cape cod horseman. Allows us to complete production of horses simultaneously.

Move the horses and attack ASAP. I am not sure what ND's war plan is.

While this is going on, the warrior that contacted Vox should head to Lux's capital, and scout/pilliage. Southern warriors should continue north - unless Roleplay-Lux alliance is true, in which case, we should moniter Roleplay's actions.

[Hot_Enamel]

I need to have a look at the sav

Can Lux connect their iron by using a worker as a colony ?

If so, they may have the gold to upgrade some warriors.
We may need to take out their worker ??

Dunno .. Hard to comment

I have my fingers crossed, but it sounds like they are screwed

[Donegeal]

I don't have the save in front of me, but I am positive that 2 horse is NOT going to take down Lux unless we wait until after they complete their settler. If they are in the position to change build Q's they will be able to pop a couple of spear in no-time. At best, I view this as putting him to one city. The only way we can take Lux out is with ND help.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by donegeal
I don't have the save in front of me, but I am positive that 2 horse is NOT going to take down Lux unless we wait until after they complete their settler. If they are in the position to change build Q's they will be able to pop a couple of spear in no-time. At best, I view this as putting him to one city. The only way we can take Lux out is with ND help.

Two horse aren't going to be enough, unless Lux helps.

The devious plan is to slowly convince Lux that it would be best for them to fight ND and allow us to conquer them and their assests to spite ND, thus having Lux help us kick Trip's ass.

[Aggie]

That is a good plan ghengis. First trip must be convinced he will lose. With sword already attacking that isn't a hard sell.
Aggie

[Aro]

An evil plan. A wonderful evil plan!

But...Will Trip buy this? I'm asking that 'cause I'm a little... hmm... out of the game at this point (I'll be more present in a few days), and I'm not aware about the most recent diplomatic facts.

[Panzer32]

Trip seemed pretty desperate when I chatted with him - he seemed to be trying to tell us the desperate state they are in to get us to help them quickly.

[Hot_Enamel]

Check-off list for the complete surrender of Lux Invicta

1. They must gift us any 1 pop cities.
2. We can attack undefended 2 pop cities to give a little bit of realism for ND’s behalf
3. They must remove all of their defenders and allow us to use them as fodder if we wish….vets -> elites
4. They must gift us all their gold and tech
5. They must gift us their workers….or allow our units to take them.
5. Their capital must be left undefended for us.
6. Their team members will be able to join the GOW only after agreeing to pledge their allegiance.
7. This surrender must be kept quiet from ND until we can come up with a suitable story. ND may see this as a breach of our alliance. Trip must gag his members.
8. ????

[Hot_Enamel]

How to sell this to Lux…..

They are dead meat…their only choice for survival is to
1. Negotiate with ND, and become a minor player for the rest of the game, or until some team decides to take them out.
2. Negotiate with us and join our team, become active members and plot their revenge on ND using Warmongerer resources.

What if they offer us gold/tech/luxuries just to get us to declare war on ND? They may feel ND will back off knowing they have a MPP with us and maybe RP.
Our answer would be that we do not have any force that could match ND, and are not willing to risk our survival on the off chance that Lux may survive.



P.S. Find out what they have offered to RP to join the war.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Roleplay/Lux Invicta/Glory of War Chat
Session Start: Thu Feb 13 17:53:57 2003
Session Ident: #TA
[17:53] * Now talking in #TA
[17:53] <[LUX]_Trip> what's arnelos' name?
[17:54] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: +vv Aidun-busy E_T
[17:54] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Arnelos
[17:54] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Last name Bush
[17:54] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> euh?!
[17:54] <[LUX]_Trip> hehe
[17:54] <[RP]_dejon> [RP]_Arnelos
[17:54] <[LUX]_Trip> okay
[17:54] * Panzer32 has joined #TA
[17:54] try it now with Arnelos
[17:54] <[RP]_Togas> he changed it back to plain arnelos to make invite
easier
[17:54] <[LUX]_Trip> done
[17:54] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: +v Panzer32
[17:54] thanks
[17:55] <[LUX]_Trip> np
[17:55] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Hi, Aidun!
[17:55] So this is the Conference of Malta?
[17:55] * Arnelos has joined #TA
[17:55] <[LUX]_Trip> heya Arney
[17:55] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: +v Arnelos
[17:55] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Hi Arnie
[17:55] * [RP]_dejon wonders what "ta" is
[17:55] Hi BFM, good to see you again
[17:55] * Arnelos is now known as [RP]_Arnelos
[17:55] * Panzer32 is now known as [GoW]_Panzer32
[17:55]
[17:55] <[LUX]_Trip> conform!
[17:55] <[LUX]_Trip>
[17:55] <[LUX]_Trip> I'm talking to you ET and Aidun
[17:55] If i know trip, it's T&A
[17:55] <[RP]_Arnelos> ok... gotta go idle to play the internal pbem
save real quick
[17:55] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Arie, do you want to get a Moo3 group
together when it comes out?
[17:55] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Arnie
[17:55] <[RP]_Arnelos> GhengisFArb - YES!
[17:56] * E_T is now known as [RP]_E_T
[17:56] <[LUX]_Trip> :MoO3dance:
[17:56] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Good
[17:56] <[RP]_dejon> At first glance I thought it was "tta" - Trash
Trip's Ass - but it didn't fit
[17:56] Haha
[17:56] <[RP]_Arnelos> playing pbem save...
[17:56] lol
[17:56] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> it's T & A in order to get pack more people
into the room
[17:56] <[LUX]_Trip> change your name Aidun! :P
[17:57] * Aidun-busy is now known as Aidun
[17:57] <[RP]_Togas> 7 Please note that I am at work. May idle on
occasion. Should I idle too long Dejon shall take over until my return.
[17:57] <[LUX]_Trip> [RP]_Aidun
[17:57] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Vhange it to [ND]_Aidun
[17:57] <[LUX]_Trip> LoL GF
[17:57] Oh ok
[17:57] <[LUX]_Trip> okay Togas
[17:57] * Aidun is now known as [RP]_Aidun
[17:57] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> that'd freak people out
[17:57] * [LUX]_BigFurryMonster denkt dat Aidun zijn naam moet
veranderen [Dutch, sorry]
[17:58] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> a spie!
[17:58] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> A spy!
[17:58] <[LUX]_Trip> 4If anyone sees someone in the main chatroom, or
wants to invite someone else, PM me telling me to invite them
[17:58] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> What? Where?
[17:58] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Now, you speak English!
[17:58] * [LUX]_BigFurryMonster will.
[17:58] <[RP]_Aidun> Haha
[17:58] <[RP]_Aidun> funny
[17:58] <[LUX]_statusperfect> it's about time npw isn't it?
[17:58] <[RP]_dejon> There are some RP left in the RP chat room, but
they didn't ask for invites
[17:59] <[LUX]_Trip> meh
[17:59] <[LUX]_Trip> if they ask, then I will
[17:59] <[LUX]_Trip> anyways
[17:59] <[LUX]_Trip> 4Okay, let's begin... I have a Calculus test to
leave for in 1 hour
[17:59] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> IF UnOrthO or Donegeal show up they should
get invites.
[17:59] <[LUX]_Trip> right
[17:59] <[LUX]_Trip> Done said he'd come, Ortho will eventually
[18:00] <[LUX]_Trip> 4As I'm sure everyone in here is aware of, we
have quite a situation with Neu Demogyptica
[18:00] <[RP]_E_T> and I still have to finish my dishes, but I'll still
be around....going Idle
[18:00] <[LUX]_Trip> 4The purpose of this meeting is for the rest of
the continent to decide what to do
[18:00] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> War on hold due to dirty dishes
[18:00] <[LUX]_Trip> if only that would work
[18:00] <[RP]_Arnelos> lol @ GF
[18:01] <[LUX]_Trip> 4Neu Demogyptica has a stack of 5 units adjacent
to our city, and a scout blocking our road network
[18:01] <[LUX]_Trip> 4They will, no doubt, invade next turn
[18:01] <[RP]_dejon> We have assumed they are all swordsmen - are they?
[18:01] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> We need info on Lux's troops and their
positions, a map/diagram preferbably of the front.
[18:01] <[GoW]_Panzer32> I thought it was 4 units
[18:01] <[LUX]_Trip> 4 Swordsmen, 1 Spearman
[18:02] <[GoW]_Panzer32> ah
[18:02] <[LUX]_Trip> 1 veteran Swordsman, 3 regulars
[18:02] <[RP]_Togas> ah
[18:02] <[LUX]_Trip> Lux was beginning it's buildup now
[18:02] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> It think most of the units on both sides
are going to be regulars
[18:02] <[LUX]_Trip> we didn't expect an attack for another 10 or 15
turns
[18:02] <[RP]_dejon> And *I* (not RP) assume that your defenses will
not withstand an assault
[18:02] <[LUX]_Trip> our city will most likely fall
[18:03] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> What do you have in Fabio?
[18:03] <[LUX]_Trip> we have 2 Spearmen in or near the city
[18:03] <[LUX]_Trip> 1 Worker as well
[18:03] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> How many more spearmen do you have?
[18:03] <[RP]_Arnelos> I assume both are regulars?
[18:03] <[RP]_dejon> Have you considered abandoning it?
[18:03] <[LUX]_Trip> 3 Warriors approaching our capital, to upgrade to
Swordsmen
[18:03] <[RP]_dejon> (To settle elsewhere another day)
[18:03] <[LUX]_Trip> all of our units are regulars up to now
[18:03] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Do you have Iron or Barracks?
[18:03] <[LUX]_Trip> Dejon: we considered that
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> we are 5 turns from a barracks in Regio
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> however, that doesn't do us much good
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> we can, however, pop a barracks from our capital
in 3 turns
[18:04] <[RP]_Togas> is Rushing the barracks an option?
[18:04] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Moot, you won't have Regio in 5 turns
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> we have 3 Warriors coming to the capital
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> 2 will arrive within 4 turns
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> 1 will arrive in 8
[18:04] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> You can't upgrade without IRON AND BARRACKS
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> correct
[18:04] <[LUX]_Trip> we can link to iron in about 4 turns
[18:05] <[LUX]_Trip> if ND doesn't get to it first
[18:05] <[LUX]_Trip> we have a Worker adjacent to Regio
[18:05] <[LUX]_Trip> the iron is about halfway in between Regio and our
capital
[18:05] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> next turn Fabio falls, you are connected to
it with roads, ND can run down those roads to your capital and Camp
Annoyus before you can upgrade your warriors
[18:05] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> RP - do you have a map of that area?
[18:06] <[LUX]_Trip> I planned on torching the roads
[18:06] <[RP]_Togas> Unfortunately, we have no map of this area
[18:06] <[RP]_Arnelos> BFM - not really
[18:06] <[RP]_Togas> we are somewhat blind
[18:06] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Maybe we should provide it...
[18:06] <[RP]_Arnelos> BFM - we have only what Trip already sent us
[18:06] <[RP]_dejon> more than somewhat - we only have the shot posted
publicly of the city
[18:06] <[RP]_Togas> 7 please invite mrmitchell and oliverfa
[18:06] <[LUX]_Trip> okay
[18:07] <[LUX]_Trip> let me describe the geography quickly
[18:07] * mrmitchell has joined #ta
[18:07] * OliverFA has joined #ta
[18:07] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: +vv mrmitchell OliverFA
[18:07] <[LUX]_Trip> welcome
[18:07] <[GoW]_Panzer32> hello both of you
[18:07] * OliverFA is now known as [RP]_OliverFA
[18:07] * mrmitchell is now known as [Bobling-RP]mrmitchell
[18:07] <[RP]_OliverFA> Hello and please continue the chat
[18:07] <[RP]_Arnelos> too many indians.... err... Spaniards?
[18:08] <[LUX]_Trip> our capital and Regio are seperated by about 10
tiles
[18:08] <[RP]_Arnelos> (or is that too many chiefs, not enough
indians?)
[18:08] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> 10 tiles?
[18:08] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> GoW: Fabio = Regio, and Annoyus =
Campus ?
[18:08] <[LUX]_Trip> we have another city to the north, about close to
GoW and fairly close to Regio
[18:08] <[RP]_Arnelos> So
[18:08] <[LUX]_Trip> in between all of these cities, in about the
middle, we have a road junction, which connects all of our cities
[18:08] <[LUX]_Trip> on top of the junction, ND has a scout
[18:08] <[RP]_Arnelos> So "Regio" is the city threatened, correct?
[18:08] <[LUX]_Trip> Arnelos: Yes, correct
[18:09] <[GoW]_Panzer32> 1they are sneaky, aren't they...
[18:09] <[RP]_Arnelos> and the city to the north it is... "Campus"?
[18:09] <[LUX]_Trip> no black text please Panzer, I have a black
background
[18:09] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Camp Annoyus
[18:09] <[LUX]_Trip> Arnelos: yes
[18:09] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Arnelos: yes
[18:09] <[RP]_Arnelos> ok
[18:09] <[RP]_Arnelos> got it
[18:09] <[LUX]_Trip> now, the plan I proposed to my team is as follows
[18:09] <[RP]_Arnelos> 1Trip can't see me!
[18:09] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> I can ;-)
[18:09] <[LUX]_Trip> :P
[18:10] <[LUX]_Trip> anyways
[18:10] <[GoW]_Panzer32> 0Hows this?
[18:10] <[LUX]_Trip> that's better, thanks
[18:10] <[RP]_Arnelos> panzer - good
[18:10] <[GoW]_Panzer32> I just said how's this...
[18:10] <[LUX]_Trip> 4Lux Invicta planned on holding back ND as much
as possible, while we build up our forces in the rear, including those 3
Swordsmen
[18:10] <[LUX]_Trip> 4I've accounted for the loss of Regio
[18:10] <[LUX]_Trip> 4However, we cannot lose the units we have
stationed there
[18:10] <[GoW]_Panzer32> 1can't see this Trip, while na-na...
[18:11] <[RP]_Togas> Trip, if you lose that road between Campus and
your Capital, how will you upgrade to swords?
[18:11] <[GoW]_Panzer32> then take the units out of Regio
[18:11] <[LUX]_Trip> we have 3 possibilities to connect the iron
[18:11] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> You have one city in the rear to build
forces with, ND has you outnumbered 2 to 1 with Swordsmen that you know of,
assuming that one stack it there entire military.
[18:11] <[LUX]_Trip> I figure we'll be able to at least upgrade 2
swordsmen
[18:12] <[LUX]_Trip> 4Stalling them is our utmost priority right now
[18:12] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> = that is why we need you guys =
[18:12] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> How many more will ND have built by then
though, they have 3 medium size cities spitting out Swordsmen
[18:13] <[LUX]_Trip> if we can destroy their initial army, then we will
be on even ground again
[18:13] <[RP]_Togas> Destroy their initial army ... with what?
[18:13] <[RP]_Arnelos> though additional swordsmen will take time to
reach the front lines
[18:13] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> And - if we can threaten them from
three sides, we can make life difficult for them
[18:13] <[LUX]_Trip> 4I was thinking the best way to slow them down
would be to keep 1 Spearman in Regio, and withdraw the other 1 to slow
them
[18:14] <[LUX]_Trip> GoW said they would have 2 Horsemen ready in about
4 turns
[18:14] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I think it would be to withdraw them both
and abandon Regio. They gain no city and no gold from your treasury
[18:14] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> It is important that they feel
threatened by any of you, so they'll hesitate sending in their entire army
[18:14] <[LUX]_Trip> we can use those to destroy their roads and
harrass their flanks until we can get a final assault force preapred
[18:14] * [RP]_Arnelos has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by
peer)
[18:15] <[RP]_dejon> 7 Please re-invite 'Arnelos'
[18:15] <[LUX]_Trip> okay
[18:15] * Arnelos has joined #TA
[18:15] <[LUX]_Trip> The main purpose of this meeting is to coordinate
our forces into a main attack plan
[18:15] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> KILL THE SCOUT
[18:15] <[LUX]_Trip> the scout will be gone
[18:16] <[GoW]_Panzer32> gone where?
[18:16] * Donegeal has joined #TA
[18:16] <[LUX]_Trip> gone dead
[18:16] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> To Heaven!
[18:16] <[LUX]_Trip> hey Done
[18:16] <[RP]_dejon> 7 Arnelos has no voice
[18:16] <[GoW]_Panzer32> ah
[18:16] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: +vv Arnelos Donegeal
[18:16] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> it's allowing them to see your movements
behind the lines
[18:16] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: -m
[18:16] <[GoW]_Panzer32> hello Donegeal!
[18:16] THANK YOU
[18:16] <[LUX]_Trip>
[18:16] got disconnected...
[18:16] <[RP]_Togas> Note: I had a discussion with ND this afternoon
to try to discover their motives and to warn them about the
possibilities of this war.
[18:16] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Ghengis - not movements - only
positions in PBEM
[18:16] * Arnelos is now known as [RP]_Arnelos
[18:16] * Donegeal is now known as GoW_Donegeal
[18:16] hello all....
[18:16] sorry I'm late...
[18:16] <[LUX]_Trip> welcome Done
[18:17] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Hi Don
[18:17] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Done: use some []
[18:17] <[RP]_Togas> In that discusion, ND stated to me (whether this
can be believed or not) that they would stop after taking Regio
[18:17] I was at a three car accident with multiple
injuries...
[18:17] <[RP]_dejon> Hello Mr. Piña Colada
[18:17] <[RP]_Togas> They also claimed to have units in production, in
reserve.
[18:17] <[LUX]_Trip> wow, that's rough
[18:17] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> I can imagine that, with three large
cities
[18:17] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Sorry, to here that Don
[18:17] I was AT not IN...
[18:17] <[LUX]_Trip> what purpose would it serve them to destroy Regio
and quit?
[18:17] I witnessed it
[18:17] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Did you cause it
[18:17] <[RP]_Togas> Probably to get that city off their border
[18:17] <[LUX]_Trip> why should we believe that?
[18:18] nope...
[18:18] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Like that squirrel in the Geico commercial
[18:18] any way.. back to the game...
[18:18] <[LUX]_Trip> yes
[18:18] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> If they attack Regio they are most likely
going all the way
[18:19] <[LUX]_Trip> going to war with the potential of 3 enemies to
only get a city out of the way is foolish
[18:19] <[LUX]_Trip> ND is much smarter than that, I would assume
[18:19] * GoW_Donegeal is now known as [GoW]_Donegeal
[18:19] <[RP]_E_T> I'm back, but I have to go again....
[18:19] <[LUX]_Trip> with a neutral road in between, it could easily be
just a few turns from total victory, if that's what they want
[18:19] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> More dishes ?
[18:19] <[LUX]_Trip> like the US with Iraq
[18:20] <[RP]_Togas> Frankly, they're like the US in this scenerio.
They have the firepower, we do not.
[18:20] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Ditto
[18:20] <[LUX]_Trip> that is true right now
[18:20] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Not quite. The world is not with Iraq.
[18:20] <[RP]_Togas> If they take Lux out, they know we won't stand for
it.
[18:20] <[RP]_Togas> ... hold on, phone call
[18:20] <[LUX]_Trip> the situation can change quickly, if necassary
[18:21] <[RP]_dejon> An unnecessary continuation of war, beyond Regio,
would incite GoW and RP, and ND must know that - I tend to believe them
that they have a limited goal
[18:21] <[LUX]_Trip> okay
[18:21] * GodKing_rp has joined #TA
[18:21] made it.
[18:21] <[LUX]_Trip> hehe, welcome GK
[18:21] * [RP]_E_T: you're not channel operator
[18:21] <[LUX]_statusperfect> this situation is like poland in WW2
[18:21] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Germans?
[18:21] <[LUX]_Trip> LoL
[18:21] <[RP]_Aidun> More Like Malta 1945
[18:21] <[LUX]_statusperfect> LoL
[18:21] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Poland?
[18:22] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I can see Lux as WW2 Poland........
[18:22] <[LUX]_statusperfect> my point is: if you don't stop them now
you'll be next
[18:22] so, has war been declared?
[18:22] <[RP]_Arnelos> well if the germans are the germans... who's
Stalin?
[18:22] <[RP]_Aidun> I see this as the three great powers
[18:22] <[LUX]_Trip> GK: not yet
[18:22] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> We should let them know that taking
Regio is enough to anger both GoW and RP
[18:22] <[LUX]_Trip> I sent Borc a PM yesterday, outlining the odds
that they faced
[18:22] <[LUX]_Trip> they ignored me completely
[18:22] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Was that aimed at me, Arnie?
[18:22] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> taking anything this early is purely
nuts and it angers my peacenik self :P
[18:23] Lux - would you be willing to disband that city to
avoid war?
[18:23] * [LUX]_statusperfect applauds mrmitchell
[18:23] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> From what I understand you also pm'd them
you had 6 Spearman and 8 Horsemen
[18:23] <[LUX]_Trip> the permanent loss of that city would mean the
loss of horses, and possibly iron
[18:24] <[LUX]_Trip> GF: if I ever said such a thing, I would have
assumed war would be coming in 15 turns
[18:24] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> GodKing - how would it avoid war?
[18:24] <[RP]_dejon> If you are expecting to lose it anyway, wouldn't
abandoning it to prevent casulties on both sides, and avoiding war, make
sense?
[18:24] <[LUX]_Trip> Neu Demogyptica has given us no demands
[18:24] Just thinking, but they appear to be upset at how
close the two cities are. If one were to move....
[18:24] <[LUX]_Trip> if we were to do so, we would have no horses and
no iron in the future
[18:24] <[LUX]_Trip> the situation may occur again
[18:24] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I'm with dejon, abandoning Fabio looks like
the best option
[18:24] <[LUX]_Trip> they presented no anger towards us having two
cities so close
[18:24] <[RP]_Togas> back from phone call, catching up
[18:24] <[RP]_dejon> And if there is war, you also have no horses or
iron.
[18:25] <[LUX]_Trip> we will have them for a period of time, especially
iron
[18:25] <[LUX]_Trip> what if we disband Regio and they don't stop?
[18:25] <[RP]_Arnelos> Trip... you honestly think they're aren't mad
about you foudning the city so close???
[18:25] <[RP]_dejon> BUT...if you abandon - there is a chance you can
trade for those Horses and Iron, and ND at least would have two of each
[18:25] <[LUX]_Trip> we had a border agreement with them
[18:25] <[LUX]_Trip> their city in that location is a violation of our
agreement
[18:25] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> "Rules are made to be broken."
[18:26] <[RP]_Arnelos> hmmm.... any chance you could forward us the
provisions of that treaty?
[18:26] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I don't think your border agreement
included you building a city next to them , that doesn't make sense
[18:26] <[LUX]_Trip> we were to have everything east of the mountains
[18:26] <[RP]_Togas> Frankly, I don't care much to discuss who insulted
who in this "border agrement"
[18:26] any contract is up for renegotation at any time...
forget who said it, but this situation reminds me of that quote.
[18:26] <[LUX]_Trip> Borc 'signed' the agreement
[18:26] <[GoW]_Panzer32> thats pretty vague...
[18:26] <[RP]_dejon> That would suck - but it still doesn't make sense
to build that close after they built there.
[18:26] <[RP]_E_T> back
[18:26] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> That isn't east of the mountains, its west
and north

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Continued
[18:26] <[LUX]_Trip> wb ET
[18:27] <[LUX]_Trip> the moutnains right next to them
[18:27] <[RP]_Togas> Bottom line: They have the swords. We don't.
They will take this city next turn.
[18:27] <[LUX]_Trip> their city is NE of them
[18:27] <[LUX]_Trip> anyways
[18:27] <[LUX]_Trip> we will consider the chances of abandoning the
city
[18:27] <[LUX]_Trip> we may send them a PM on that subject
[18:27] <[LUX]_Trip> however, such topics do not help us now
[18:28] <[LUX]_Trip> 4Should war be declared, which is the likliest
outcome, we must prepare
[18:28] <[RP]_Togas> abadon the city. Send them a letter saying that
you have done this to avert war. Don't send any further empty threats.
Those don't work.
[18:28] <[RP]_dejon> If they are ignoring your PM - perhaps GoW and/or
RP could offer to negotiate on your behalf.
[18:28] <[RP]_dejon> Be a mediator
[18:28] <[RP]_Arnelos> dejon has a point... they've been responding to
our PMs on the subject
[18:29] <[LUX]_Trip> but no progress has been made
[18:29] <[RP]_Togas> and they have been willing to meet and discuss
with us
[18:29] <[LUX]_Trip> Togas talked with them for over an hour and all he
was able to tell me was that "they would still go to war"
[18:29] <[RP]_Togas> I have able mediators on my team who would
volunteer.
[18:29] <[RP]_Arnelos> GhengisFarb, I'm sure they've talked to you guys
as well?
[18:29] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Yes
[18:29] <[RP]_Togas> Trip, you're misquoting me.
[18:29] <[LUX]_Trip> the implications are the same
[18:29] <[RP]_Togas> I said that, in my opinion, they will attack.
[18:29] <[RP]_E_T> but the thing is, this has not been an option that
has been presented to ND yet, so they just might go for it
[18:30] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: +v GodKing_rp
[18:30] <[RP]_dejon> Consider the diplomatic solutions - because we all
know that WAR at this early stage will not favour AT least 2 teams on
this continent, perhaps more
[18:30] <[RP]_Togas> I made a peace pitch, but frankly, they'd be fools
to take me up on it. I made no offers.
[18:31] <[LUX]_Trip> with the situation being what it is, I will
advocate RP to see what they can do to see if peace can be preserved
[18:31] <[LUX]_Trip> we can hold the save for only another 4 hours
[18:31] <[RP]_dejon> But if Togas were to mediate a chat btwn Trip and
Borc...
[18:31] <[LUX]_Trip> therefore, preparations need to be made either way
[18:31] <[LUX]_Trip> we do not have time to work out a solution now
[18:31] <[LUX]_Trip> no teams here will have the save between when we
send it and NDE gets it
[18:31] <[RP]_E_T> Trip, CAN you change your build to a settler and who
soon can it be ready??
[18:32] <[RP]_E_T> &how
[18:32] <[LUX]_Trip> we have a settler
[18:32] <[RP]_Arnelos> is the 24 hours holding the save that hard of a
rule?
[18:32] <[RP]_Togas> ET -- next turn the city gets sacked. No point.
[18:32] <[LUX]_Trip> Arnelos: we try to keep by that agreement
[18:32] <[LUX]_Trip> if possible, we could hold onto it longer...
[18:32] <[RP]_Arnelos> I would think this would be a situation where
some leeway would be permissible, but ok...
[18:32] <[LUX]_Trip> very well
[18:33] <[LUX]_Trip> Lux will hold onto the save until tomorrow
[18:33] <[RP]_Togas> Take a chance. You risk nothing. Abandon the
city and tell them that you did so for peaceful purposes, attone for sins,
whatever.
[18:33] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> What are you going to do with the settler
[18:33] <[LUX]_Trip> perhaps some sort of agreement with ND can be
worked out in that time
[18:33] <[RP]_Togas> Then, in subsequent turns, negotiate peace, if
possible.
[18:33] I would not worry about that 24 hour rule too
much. it is more of a guideline.
[18:33] <[LUX]_Trip> GF: we can either build a new city, or re-join our
capital, pop a barracks, etc.
[18:33] <[LUX]_Trip> I don't like breaking my own rules
[18:34] <[RP]_Aidun> Doesn't matter Trip
[18:34] it isn't a rule. a guideline is all. besides,
this situation warrents such.
[18:34] <[LUX]_Trip> agreed
[18:34] <[LUX]_Trip> and we were just catching up to everyone else in
the timecounter
[18:34] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Why all the interest in our settler?
[18:34] <[RP]_dejon> I agree - 24hr is a guideline online, and the
TimeCounter is unofficial
[18:35] <[RP]_Togas> Guys, I'm not in favor of anyone holding onto the
save for that long. I don't think a negotiation of any sort will be
resolved that quickly.
[18:35] <[GoW]_Panzer32> another city is very beneficial to you
[18:35] <[RP]_dejon> To make sure you don't irritate ND or GoW with
your next city? :P
[18:35] <[LUX]_Trip> Togas: an agreement might be reached if RP, ND and
Lux have a meeting tomorrow
[18:35] <[LUX]_Trip> was your meeting with ND today planned?
[18:35] <[LUX]_Trip> if so, how far in advance?
[18:36] <[RP]_Togas> meeting was spontaneous due to request via PM
[18:36] <[LUX]_Trip> perhaps you could send them another PM now asking
for another meeting tomorrow
[18:36] <[RP]_Aidun> What time tomorrow Togas?
[18:36] <[RP]_dejon> I have to go all - wife's birthday today. If
Togas goes idle - the former MTA and current Madrid Gov. - Señor Arnelos
speaks for the RP Team.
[18:36] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I don't like this planning a meeting
without my team.
[18:36] Trip - I would suggest some guidelines for this
conference. First, what is your objective here? To avoid a war or to
get help in the war?
[18:36] <[LUX]_Trip> byebye Dejon, thanks for coming
[18:36] <[RP]_Aidun> Congrats Dejon
[18:36] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Congrats Dejon
[18:36] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> Congrats Mrs. Dejon!
[18:36] <[LUX]_Trip> GF: if you want to attend then it's fine
[18:36] <[RP]_dejon> It's her birthday, not mine.
[18:37] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> I know
[18:37] * [LUX]_statusperfect has quit IRC (Read error: Connection
reset by peer)
[18:37] <[RP]_Aidun> Congrats to Mrs Dejon
[18:37] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> ph33r the p33r
[18:37] <[RP]_dejon> okay, bye. Last thing - I favour as peacefull a
solution as possible.
[18:37] <[LUX]_Trip> I feel the most progress can be made using RP as
mediators, as Togas has already talked with them
[18:37] <[LUX]_Trip> that's all
[18:37] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Congrats to Mrs Dejon
[18:37] * [RP]_dejon has left #ta
[18:37] happy bday ms dejon
[18:37] <[LUX]_Trip> GK this meeting was a conference to try to decide
what should be done, war or no war
[18:38] <[RP]_Togas> We'll act as mediators, only. I'll volunteer or
ask one of my people to do so.
[18:38] <[LUX]_Trip> send them a PM sometime today, if you would
[18:38] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> RP and GoW can't get you troops in time to
prevent ND taking your city
[18:38] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> The main Q is: IF war occurs, will you
join on our side?
[18:38] <[RP]_Togas> Agreed
[18:38] <[LUX]_Trip> that is assumed
[18:38] <[LUX]_Trip> now
[18:38] <[LUX]_Trip> on to other things
[18:38] <[LUX]_Trip> I have 20 minutes
[18:39] <[LUX]_Trip> 4IF there is a war, then what?
[18:39] <[LUX]_Trip> assume NOTHING can be done to avoid it
[18:39] <[RP]_Togas> I have 2 units in the theatre, that's it. Any
other units I send will be post 15 turns. Far too late.
[18:40] <[LUX]_Trip> GoW, what do you have available within 10 turns?
[18:40] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> if there is a war:
[18:40] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Pray to your gods. We'll pray to our
gods.
[18:40] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Hell, pray to each other's gods even
if possible.
[18:40] I know not. It will have to be discussed within
our forum. the discussion has already started, but as Togas says, we
have no troops nearby.
[18:40] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> At least two Horsemen
[18:40] <[LUX]_Trip> I heard that GoW and RP have warriors near the
southern ND border
[18:41] <[LUX]_Trip> these could be used in conjunction
[18:41] <[LUX]_Trip> What do you think the best use of those 2 Horsemen
could be?
[18:41] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> It depends on the situation and location of
troops, they won't be able to take out a stack of 4 Swordsmen
[18:41] <[LUX]_Trip> agreed
[18:42] <[RP]_Arnelos> 2 horsemen (especially if vets) could
conceivably slow down a stack of 5 swordsmen, maybe even knock out 2 of them.
But they won't stop it fully.
[18:42] <[RP]_Arnelos> crosspost
[18:42] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> If ND takes Fabio and moves on they could
retake Fabio
[18:42] <[LUX]_Trip> that sounds like a good plan
[18:42] <[LUX]_Trip> I would think the best use for them would be to
retake Regio
[18:42] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> The main thing is to threaten them from
3 sides
[18:42] <[LUX]_Trip> then hit the ND stack hard
[18:42] <[RP]_Arnelos> I assume that ND will probably RAZE Regio
[18:42] <[LUX]_Trip> we'll come with 2 Swordsmen
[18:42] <[LUX]_Trip> with good luck we'll destroy the stack completely
[18:42] <[LUX]_Trip> or at least cripple it
[18:42] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> yes, I feel the best use is to emphasize
their mobility
[18:43] <[RP]_Arnelos> hello? does no one else think that ND will raze
Regio?
[18:43] <[RP]_Arnelos> it's too close to their city
[18:43] <[LUX]_Trip> Arnelos: probably
[18:43] <[LUX]_Trip> either way, it's not important
[18:43] <[RP]_Arnelos> which means Regio won't BE THERE to reconquer
[18:43] <[LUX]_Trip> at least, during the war
[18:43] If I was them, I would.
[18:43] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> They won't Fabio
[18:43] <[LUX]_Trip> a dual assault with 2 veteran Horsemen and 2
Swordsmen should be enough to destroy their stack
[18:43] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> They won't raze Fabio
[18:43] <[RP]_Arnelos> Ghengis - why not?
[18:44] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> i don't know, I just know they won't
[18:44] <[GoW]_Panzer32> they want horses, right?
[18:44] <[RP]_Arnelos> ok...
[18:44] <[LUX]_Trip> horses will be in their border even if they raze
[18:44] <[LUX]_Trip> their city has expanded to size 2
[18:44] <[GoW]_Panzer32> oh
[18:44] <[RP]_Arnelos> they'll get the horses automatically if Regio is
razed due to border expansion, right?
[18:44] <[RP]_Togas> Fabio conflicts with their city. One of those
cities must go
[18:44] <[LUX]_Trip> yes
[18:44] <[RP]_Arnelos> crosspost
[18:44] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> They may be using Fabio as cultural
claiming space
[18:44] <[LUX]_Trip> either way
[18:44] <[LUX]_Trip> not important
[18:45] <[RP]_Arnelos> My guess is that they will either raze Regio or
they'll have it build a worker and abandon it
[18:45] <[LUX]_Trip> we'll deal with cities later on
[18:45] <[LUX]_Trip> GF: what do you think is the best use for the
Horsemen?
[18:45] <[LUX]_Trip> as in, complete plan, not just "run around and
torch stuff"
[18:45] <[LUX]_Trip>
[18:45] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Harassement and Counterattack
[18:45] <[GoW]_Panzer32> in other words, "rin around and torch stuff"
[18:46] <[LUX]_Trip> hehe
[18:46] <[LUX]_Trip> do you agree with my plan to use your 2 Horsemen
and our 2 Swordsmen for a counter-attack?
[18:46] 8-)
[18:46] <[GoW]_Panzer32> if we got lucky, it could work
[18:46] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Shadow the enemy and take advantage of any
openings they leave, as I am not the enemy I don't know where there
army will move or what it will do so basically "run around and torch
stuff"
[18:47] <[LUX]_Trip> will RP and GoW work together to use their 2
warriors in the south?
[18:47] <[GoW]_Panzer32> use 2 move to our advantage.
[18:47] <[LUX]_Trip> to "run around and torch stuff"
[18:47] <[RP]_Togas> We CAN ... but I'm failing to see how it would
help to do so.
[18:47] <[GoW]_Panzer32> warriors waddle around and torch stuff
[18:48] <[LUX]_Trip> exactly
[18:48] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I don't think that will work, as they are
two small stacks. If your two swordsmen dent the stack and make it a
possiblity for the Horsemen to defeat it, then it becomes more viable.
[18:48] <[LUX]_Trip> you might even get a chance to capture their iron
[18:48] <[LUX]_Trip> GF: then we will make that the plan for now
[18:48] <[LUX]_Trip> it's our best shot, I think
[18:48] <[RP]_Togas> Here's the thing: I'm willing to try some crazy
suicide kinda stuff with my warriors if I know I have no other choice
and that Lux will be dead if I don't. However, I don't think we're at
that point.
[18:49] <[LUX]_Trip> if they see 2 GoW horsemen running around up
north, they may leave the south undefended
[18:49] <[RP]_Togas> Cut your losses. Try to cut a deal while you
build like mad
[18:49] <[LUX]_Trip> Togas: like I said, we are only assuming right now
that war is inevitable
[18:49] <[LUX]_Trip> trying to deal with them will be first and
foremost
[18:50] <[RP]_Togas> So assuming that all negotiations fail, then, like
I said, I can volunteer some terrorist units to destroy iron road and
threaten undefended cities in the south
[18:50] <[LUX]_Trip> okay
[18:50] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I will be totally frank, if ND wipes out
Lux next turn, I am not 100% sure we can rationally commit to declaring
war on ND
[18:50] <[LUX]_Trip> that sounds good as well then
[18:50] <[LUX]_Trip> we can hold them off
[18:50] <[LUX]_Trip> we'll keep those Spearmen alive long enough
[18:51] <[LUX]_Trip> like I said, we're assuming here that Regio is
already lost
[18:51] <[RP]_Togas> I don't think you can hold them off, though. I
think you may have severely overestimated your combat potential
[18:51] <[LUX]_Trip> it's not TOO much of a concern right now
[18:51] <[LUX]_Trip> either we win or we lose
[18:51] <[RP]_Togas> or you live to fight another day
[18:51] <[LUX]_Trip> if it comes to war, then that may not be a
possibility
[18:52] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I just want that known, as that would leave
4 swordsmen (plus their reserves) on one side and a few Warriors on
Lux's side.
[18:52] <[GoW]_Panzer32> I don't see permanent peace here.
[18:52] <[RP]_Togas> Nor I, but right now Lux is at the disadvantage
[18:52] <[RP]_Togas> You press war when you have the advantage, press
for peace when you do not.
[18:53] <[RP]_OliverFA> Please invite GK21
[18:53] <[RP]_E_T> GK lost sysnc, please invite GK21
[18:53] * [LUX]_BigFurryMonster will have to leave for RL duties
(sleeping), unfortunately
[18:53] <[LUX]_Trip> you wouldn't be a good poker player Togas
[18:53] <[RP]_Arnelos> there is no such thing as permanent peace... but
a temporary one in GoW, RP, and Lux interests to at least allow GoW and
RP to mobilize would be nice
[18:53] <[RP]_Togas> you'd be surprised
[18:53] <[LUX]_Trip> hehe
[18:53] <[LUX]_Trip> well, we have a general idea of where we are right
now
[18:53] <[LUX]_Trip> I must be going now
[18:53] * [LUX]_Trip sets mode: -nis
[18:53] <[LUX]_Trip> open discussion
[18:53] <[LUX]_Trip> beware
[18:53] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[18:54] <[LUX]_Trip> I must be getting to my calculus test now, I'm
afraid
[18:54] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[18:54] <[LUX]_Trip> I'll be available for PM, email, chat, whatever
when I return
[18:54] <[GoW]_Panzer32> brb
[18:54] <[LUX]_Trip> thanks to you all for coming
[18:54] <[LUX]_Trip> let's hope things work out in the end
[18:54] <[GoW]_Donegeal> don't be afraid.. its just calc...
[18:54] <[LUX]_Trip> goodbye
[18:54] * GK_of_rp has joined #ta
[18:54] <[RP]_Togas> goodbye
[18:54] * [LUX]_Trip is now known as Trip[calc-test]
[18:54] hello
[18:54] <[RP]_Arnelos> someone voice GK
[18:54] thanks. I hate java
[18:55] it's not moderated now
[18:55] anyways
[18:55] <[RP]_E_T> can't you try using mIRC?
[18:55] <[RP]_Arnelos> oh
[18:55] byebye everyone!
[18:55] <[RP]_Arnelos> cya Trip
[18:55] 'Til lata
[18:55] <[GoW]_Donegeal> good luck on test
[18:55] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> cya
[18:55] thanks
[18:55] lata
[18:55] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> BFM, how many active members does Lux have?
[18:55] mIRC doesnt work at my home computer, cannot connect
to the poly server
[18:55] <[GoW]_Donegeal> I must be going also...
[18:55] <[RP]_Arnelos> cya donegeal
[18:55] <[LUX]_BigFurryMonster> 7 or so
[18:55] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Don't cause anymore wrecks, Don
[18:56] <[RP]_Arnelos> I have to leave in about 15 min... but I can
chat until then
[18:56] <[GoW]_Donegeal> "have fun stormin the castle!!!"
[18:56] <[RP]_Arnelos> lol
[18:56] * [LUX]_BigFurryMonster has quit IRC (Quit: )
[18:56] * [GoW]_Donegeal has quit IRC (Quit: )
[18:56] <[RP]_Togas> so there's no Lux people left?
[18:57] <[RP]_Arnelos> TRIP
[18:57] nope
[18:57] <[RP]_Arnelos> Trip is still here in terms of being online - he
can read it later
[18:57] well - trip kinda
[18:58] * [RP]_Aidun has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by
peer)
[18:58] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Does anyone have a log of this chat?
[18:59] <[RP]_Arnelos> I was disconnected midway
[18:59] <[RP]_Arnelos> only a partial log
[18:59] <[RP]_Arnelos> Togas? Panzer?
[18:59] * Aidun-busy has joined #ta
[18:59] * Aidun-busy is now known as [RP]_Aidun
[18:59] * GodKing_rp has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[18:59] <[RP]_Togas> no. On work computer
[19:00] <[RP]_Arnelos> 4panzer, do you have a full log?
[19:00] <[RP]_Aidun> + me please
[19:00] <[RP]_Aidun> or has the meeting ended?
[19:01] <[RP]_Arnelos> can't
[19:01] <[GoW]_Panzer32> no
[19:01] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Its ended we are trying to figure out how
to get a log
[19:01] <[GoW]_Panzer32> I can't log
[19:01] <[RP]_E_T> I've got a log from the point that Arnelos & I first
got into the room
[19:01] <[RP]_Togas> may have to scroll back and cut & paste
[19:01] <[GoW]_Panzer32> Screen captures only
[19:01] <[RP]_Arnelos> 7how do I log what I have?
[19:01] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> I can't either, I'm on Java
[19:01] <[RP]_Arnelos> ok, go with E_T's log
[19:01] <[GoW]_Panzer32> better than I have...
[19:01] <[RP]_Aidun> copy padste is the only way
[19:01] <[RP]_Arnelos> E_T - go ahead and save your log
[19:01] <[RP]_Aidun> if you haven't set it at the start
[19:01] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Yes, E_T's log should work
[19:02] <[RP]_Arnelos> and I suppose we can e-mail that log to
GhengisFarb, too? ;p
[19:02] <[RP]_E_T> I'll e-mail it to Togas & Arnelos and they can
distribute it to whom ever
[19:02] <[RP]_OliverFA> I'm leaving good afternoon/night and good luck

[19:02] * [RP]_OliverFA has left #ta
[19:02] <[GoW]_Panzer32> I'm going to supper... see you later
[19:02] <[RP]_Arnelos> ok
[19:02] <[RP]_Arnelos> either I or Togas can send it to GhengisFarb
[19:02] <[RP]_Togas> I'll forward it onto GF
[19:02] <[RP]_Aidun> What was the final outcome?
[19:02] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> bye
[19:02] <[RP]_E_T> CUI
[19:02] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> Diddly squat
[19:02] <[RP]_Togas> seems undecided, frankly.
[19:02] <[RP]_Aidun> bye
[19:02] * [GoW]_Panzer32 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[19:04] gotta go. bye.
[19:04] <[RP]_Aidun> 12What has been decided, I couldn't see, I had to
go for a minute an when I got back my computer was bugging
[19:04] <[RP]_Aidun> bye
[19:04] aidun - not much I am afraid.
[19:05] you in our channel?
[19:05] <[RP]_Arnelos> much was said, much was shared, some dim light
of understanding started to be seen by some... nothing was decided
[19:05] <[RP]_Arnelos> that's your report
[19:05] * GK_of_rp has left #ta
[19:05] <[RP]_Aidun> my report?
[19:05] <[GoW]_GhengisFarb> i would appreciate it if E_T could send us
a copy of his log

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Following chat in Room #2 after the close of the 3 way chat
Session Start: Thu Feb 13 19:04:02 2003
Session Ident: #2
[19:04] * Now talking in #2
[19:04] <[RP]_Arnelos> GhengisFarb - when are those due anyhow?
[19:04] maybe we will both get advanced copies adn can
practice before the general release. Entries are due tomorrow
[19:04] * [RP]_Ninot has joined #2
[19:04] <[RP]_Togas> afk a sec
[19:05] <[RP]_E_T> 4 Togas, please Op me and I'll set a password
[19:05] * ruby_maser has joined #2
[19:05] * [Bobling-RP]mrmitchell has joined #2
[19:05] <[RP]_Arnelos> Ghengis - you're more likely than me
[19:05] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> hello? this is for...?
[19:05] <[RP]_Arnelos> My flags are mostly star-theme flags I made for
other games that I've had to shrink to 32x32
[19:06] * [RP]_Togas sets mode: +o [RP]_E_T
[19:06] <[RP]_Arnelos> and then fiddled with for several days
[19:06] <[RP]_Togas> ... look at all of these crazy RP kiddies online!
[19:06] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> it's an RP zoo :P
[19:06] <[RP]_Arnelos> GhengisFarb... thoughts on Lux? ;p
[19:06] yeee haaaa. gotta love the jungle gym
[19:07] * ruby_maser is now known as [RP]_ruby_maser
[19:07] It's like pulling teeth to get my team together.
[19:07] <[RP]_Arnelos> I'm assuming that GoW and RP Team have....
similar impressions of how we all got to this point ;p
[19:07] ??
[19:07] <[RP]_Arnelos> just a general assumption
[19:07] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> You know what assuming makes?
[19:07] i know exactly how we got to this point
[19:07] * Retrieving #2 info...
[19:07] <[RP]_Arnelos> an ass of me and you
[19:08] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> you learn fast
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +p
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +k Talks
[19:08] Hell - I will blurt it out - trip got himself in it, but
he wants us to dig him out.
[19:08] <[RP]_Togas> I'm all for peace, but I don't think Trip is going
to work very hard for it unless ND lets them off easy.
[19:08] <[RP]_Arnelos> GK is spot on...
[19:08] <[RP]_E_T> the password is Talks
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +o GhengisFarb
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +o GK21
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +o GK21
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +o [Bobling-RP]mrmitchell
[19:08] * [RP]_Arnelos is now known as Arnelos
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +o [RP]_Ninot
[19:08] Trip jas been trying to start a fight with ND for
20+ turns now to trigger your alliance with him.
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +o Arnelos
[19:08] * [RP]_E_T sets mode: +o [RP]_ruby_maser
[19:08] Ghengis - we figured that
[19:08] <[RP]_Togas> Yep.
[19:09] He just didn't realize that ND would build up
this fast
[19:09] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Yeah, Trip has been trying to pick a
fight and he didn't know what he was asking for
[19:09] ya, and now his panties are all tied in a knot as he
wasn't ready.
[19:09] Bingo
[19:09] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> he should've known. They're effin
germans for crying out loud. they love warring.
[19:09] <[RP]_E_T> He has a way out, but he want's war
[19:09] glad we agree.... now why can't Trip see that? he
still seemed blind to it as of last night... he MIGHT now "get it",
though
[19:09] Germans, not to be poking sticks at
[19:10] let sleeping Germans lie.....
[19:10]
[19:10] * [RP]_Aidun has joined #2
[19:10] * [RP]_Togas is now known as Togas_at_Work
[19:10] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Germans are best left on an island.
If not possible, put them away or taking their weapons away (taking
their weapons away has been proven to be a more severe punishment than
death.)
[19:11] Now that Trips got ND all stirred up, how do we
calm them back down?
[19:11] Ghengis... you should see what he posted to me last
night in chat of what he sent Borc
[19:11] ok ok ok. so, what if anything do the two of us do?
[19:11] rp and gow that is
[19:11] I want to twist Trip's arm to get him to agree
to give in.
[19:11] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Borc, a hooker, and a camera
[19:11] that IS the question... how do restore at least a
situation where GoW and RP can not be caught with OUR pants down
[19:11] Nothing, Lux is all spread out, for ND to take
them they will end up scattering their forces.
[19:12] I think that us going along with the wargame
theories probably wasn't the wisest move, as it gives him hope that he
can beat ND
[19:12] true.... Trip seems to still think that somehow GoW
and RP will come to his rescue... it's quite clear that we won't
[19:12] he still doesn't realize that even if he survives, he
will only be a pawn.
[19:12] <[RP]_Aidun> I think he considers he cant, Togas
[19:13] because there's only so much we can do
[19:13] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> We'll help him
[19:13] ND will lose some troops, they will have lost out
on Rex time. Will be much stronger after ND is done with Lux
[19:13] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> that is, after our ski trip to hell
[19:13] Is there a limit GoW will agree to? A limit we
should allow ND to go with Lux?
[19:13] <[RP]_E_T> 4 TA room log has been sent to GF, Togas & Arnelos
[19:13] thanks
[19:13] ya, but if they take over 2-3 lux cities, that is the
same as rex, and now they have an army as well.
[19:14] GK has a point there
[19:14] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> which means we're goners, unless we
can split them up.
[19:14] We (RP and GoW) will be much stronger after Nd
eats up Lux because we will have build more cities.
[19:14] <[RP]_Aidun> cann someone sent it to me too?
[19:14] though at least that will give time for GoW and RP to
mobilize our defenses
[19:14] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> yes, ND's newly conquered gains will
not have temple or anything
[19:14] Aidun - it will be posted in the forum
[19:14] They can only take two cities. Lux's capital,
and Regio, the other two will auto raze
[19:14] * [RP]_E_T is now known as E_T
[19:15] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> GF--true, but any number of cities is
too much
[19:15] just conversation - no real actions proposed - what if
we let ND take 2-3 cities, then we jointly attack them?
[19:15] this is a possibility
[19:15] RP can't get troops through the jungle in a
timely manner at this point to make that plan feasible
[19:15] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> I suggest that when Trip sees the
armies on his border full of Sword etc., he send a last peace message with
a threat to abandon everything without immediate peace
[19:15] let their army get the hell out of dodge, then we hit
them with a blind side.
[19:16] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> However I'm not no diplo expert or
anything
[19:16] mrmitchell - that just lets those 5 swords be
switched for target to GoW...
[19:16] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[19:16] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> and then he breaks the treaty.

[19:16] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> "Rules were made to be broken."
[19:16] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[19:16] would take 'em quite a long time to slosh through
jungle to reach us, but they can probbaly reach GoW pretty quick
[19:17] ND is in a good position for what they are doing
[19:17] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> :eeksomemore:
[19:17] Agreed.
[19:17] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> :youaremakingmeeektoomuch:
[19:17] * E_T sets mode: +o [RP]_Aidun
[19:17] It's in RP and GoW interest to make sure they DO NOT
go after GoW
[19:17] <[RP]_Aidun> thanks
[19:17] so - if we strike first, they start to march on us, then
3 turns later GOW strikes.....
[19:17] double whammie
[19:18] <[RP]_Aidun> Wow
[19:18] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> then LI strikes
[19:18] GK - we don't really have the forces for it...
[19:18] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> but do we have the army?
[19:18] <[RP]_ruby_maser> what about city spacing up north, GF? ND
claims there none
[19:18] 7 Let's end the speculation and wargame for a
moment. Discuss at another time. Right now, I want to decide on
immediate actions only.
[19:18] we have to wait a bit to let them feel good after taking
out Lux anyways.
[19:18] next turn. My team will take no hostile
actions towards ND
[19:18] besides... the best solution is for us to press for
peace and then allow us to build up our defenses during peace so that no
single Civilization has such an advantage in mobilization like ND does
right now
[19:18] yes sir.
[19:19] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> It is Togas's Will; It Will Be Done.
[19:19] I think Trip should gift GoW Campus Festus and
gift their treasury to RP for "safekeeping" if Lux is annilated at Regio
it prevents ND from taking a northern city (next to my captital) and
prevents tehm from taking Lux's treasury
[19:19] The optimal situation is where the balanace of power
is re-established
[19:19] <[RP]_Aidun> Arnelos, thats the bests strategy
[19:19] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Arn--
[19:19] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> We needn't one nation becomeing too
powerful
[19:19] <[RP]_Aidun> I hear you talking like Goldstein Arnelos
[19:19] GF, while I'd love to agree with that proposal,
Trip won't.
[19:19] yeah... I don't think Trip would go for that
[19:20] what if we offer Lux members asylum
[19:20] Well.... I gotta run
[19:20] bye
[19:20] got another meeting to be at
[19:20] cya all
[19:20] <[RP]_Aidun> Arn, have you read Goldstein
[19:20] <[RP]_Aidun> cya
[19:20] Here's how I see it:
[19:20] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> remember, Trip's ego is still large
enough to create a black hole soon
[19:20] He's not as opposed to it as you think. He
definitely agreed on the treasury thing, and also agreed that if they lose
Regio next turn they are deadmeat.
[19:21] * Arnelos has quit IRC (Quit: )
[19:21] 1) Lux must abandon that city before it's taken
(and he loses gold to ND)
[19:21] if the enemy keeps coming and he can't stop
them (and he can't) he then threatens to give up his other holdings to us.
[19:21] But that's their biggest city
[19:22] if Nd keeps coming even then, he does this so
that the enemy doesn't take his belongings. Of course, in excahgne, he
would want something from us
[19:22] No word of the assest switch should be given to
ND, that would just piss them off more.
[19:22] Honestly, I think ND won't go for the kill with
Lux. Too overextended.
[19:23] If Nd takes Regio they just wiped out 50% of
Lux's military
[19:23] true, especially if they are unsure of their Flank
[19:23] unless Lux abandons it and pulls military out
[19:24] Its then 4 Veteran/Elite Swordsmen versus 4
Regular Warriors.
[19:24] Lux must do scortched Earth, consolidate,
strike with force when (and if) he has it.
[19:25] <[RP]_ruby_maser> What Lux should do is sell everything (if
any) and gift the city to ND. Its of little value right now. Its at size
2 and not growing.
[19:25] that would have been the real smart thing, but he was
wanting to provoke a war

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Continued
[19:25] They have no force to strike with, they can only
produce regular spearmen and warriors
[19:25] <[RP]_ruby_maser> Gift it as a settlement I mean
[19:25] do you believe that he can link up iron?
[19:26] No, the iron is right next to Regio, ND would
destroy it on their way to Lux's capital
[19:27] Distance from Twin City (what is the name?) to
Regio?
[19:27] that's most likely why ND has their scout on that
crossroads, to prevent Lux connecting that Iron, AFAIK
[19:27] agreed
[19:28] <[RP]_ruby_maser> those are vet swords. Does anyone know if
the computer calculates mil. strength by hit points or by units?
[19:28] When they go and start, they will then raze and move, lux
won't be able to hit the scout
[19:28] units, including 0 HP
[19:28] <[RP]_ruby_maser> well, they've got 2 scouts at least
[19:29] I'd say 3-4 tiles, right between Regio and the
capital
[19:30] * E_T has to go and eat dinner, If this is over before I get
back, I'll send the logs to GF, Arnelos & Togas
[19:30] sounds like Trip won't be able to get his
barracks + iron up in time, unless I'm missing something. Why is he acting
so optimistic?
[19:30] he's an idiot
[19:30] stupidity
[19:30] I think they have a Magic Mushroom resource
[19:30] too many drugs
[19:30] connected
[19:30] he seems to think that we have units ready NOW
... we don't. That we can immediately help him ... we can't
[19:30] <[RP]_Ninot> Trip's got a special source of mushrooms in his
head
[19:31] the closest guy I have is the one right next to
Basher ... and a fat lot of good he's going to do other than annoy ND
[19:31] ... I'd be sending PlagueRat's brigade to their
deaths.
[19:31] I've seen this kind of thinking before in the SPDG, not
realizing the limitations of time & output
[19:32] By the time those warriors areup there, Lux will
be gone gone
[19:32] * Togas_at_Work ponders the benefits of that ...
[19:32] * E_T is now known as E_T_eating_dinner
[19:32] * E_T_eating_dinner will be back
[19:33] it might not be bad in the long run. We get BFM. Gow
gets trip
[19:34] Seems like we should do this: 1) Push Trip
for peace/capitulation. 2) If that fails, offer to take them in as
refugees, split up assets so ND doesn't get them. Minimize losses
[19:34] because I see no viable military option.
[19:34] <[RP]_ruby_maser> Is #2 gonna set a precedent in this game?
[19:34] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> "refugees"
[19:34] perhaps, perhaps
[19:35] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> in our time RPwise, "refugees" equals
"slaves"
[19:35] wouldn't THAT be nice
[19:35] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> but considering they were the fabric
of Luxian nobility, maybe they'll get away with mere "Servanthood"
instead of tending the fields all day
[19:35] Can't wait to divy up GS.
[19:35] <[RP]_ruby_maser> life's a ditch, Trip. Can you dig it?
[19:35] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[19:35] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[19:35]
[19:36]
[19:36] new Chamberpot cleaners, GK just got promoted
[19:37] GK, I might just promote you to stable boy!
[19:37] I assume he is still in that position, no?
[19:37] <[RP]_ruby_maser> you make it sound like a menial job
[19:37] Senior meistro chamber pot cleaner
[19:37] He is.
[19:37] jefe of the chamber pot
[19:37] it is a dirty buisness, but someone has to do it.
[19:37] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> who's Egyption again?
[19:38] GS
[19:38] You have been cleaning chamberpots for over 2000
years now, since before the game started
[19:38] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> well, watch out, they've domesticated
cats now
[19:38] yes. and they are as ripe as ever
[19:38] he does a fine job. You'd be amazed
[19:38] I have to change the bowl every 2-300 years as the glaze
wears off
[19:39] More info than I needed to know
[19:39] The latest has a picture of.... well, I will let you
guess.
[19:39]
[19:39] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> is this how all RP discussions end?

[19:39] and start, and in the middle
[19:39] lots of fun. you should try it out sometime
[19:40] Back on topic -- do you agree to first push
Trip towards Peace/Capitulation? That we stop talking counter attack and
start talking survival?
[19:40] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> it's better than certain annihlation
[19:40] should he fail to listen, which is likely, our
next course of action would be to talk "stash the cash" so ND gets
nothing
[19:41] Yes, I think Trip's only option is peace, but I
don't think that is an option he has
[19:41] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> how's about we "persuade" him to join
us as "refugee"s
[19:42] <[RP]_ruby_maser> what do the horse resources look like up
there? this would give ND another.
[19:42] I'll take on BFM, but I dunno about Trip. He
would want to be too involved.
[19:42] ND hasn't connected it yet, this would give them
a horse connected
[19:43] <[RP]_ruby_maser> I say we push for Lux to cede the city to
ND/abandon it and ND guarantee horses to Lux in exchange down the line
[19:44] <[RP]_ruby_maser> but who am I :P
[19:44] ND most likely won't agree to it, ND and Lux HATE
each other.
[19:44] ND would be stupid to accept that they have to give
horses at some point.
[19:44] <[RP]_ruby_maser> for a fair price then
[19:45] no - i would leave the horses out of it all together.
[19:45] <[RP]_ruby_maser> pity
[19:45] Trip wont, but he is in no position to cry foul.
[19:46] we'll leave the mediation speculation for later
on. For now, I'd just like to get GoW and RP to present a unified
front to Trip.
[19:46] adn to ND
[19:46] He's dead, make out the will.
[19:46] GF -- you won't mind if we make an attempt to
negotiate peace first, right?
[19:46] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> We commend...blah
blah...earth...ashes...dust....amen.
[19:47] If our peace attempts fail, we're with you on
the "will" part.
[19:47] <[RP]_ruby_maser> do we plan on having a UN when all the civs
have met?
[19:47] Go ahead, but I doubt they will consider it since
they have already committed the last 20 turns to the complete
destruction of Trip
[19:48] I agree. It's unlikely. But I'll give it a
try nonetheless. Worth a shot.
[19:49] anything else we need to discuss?
[19:49] To agree to peace now, makes thos turns wasted,
they have sacrificed Rexing to buld up their forces, if they don't go
through with this they will lose the game, I don't see anyway to change
their mind as this path has them committed
[19:50] If we somehow knock them off this path, all the
better.
[19:50] I agree GF. Fair statement.
[19:50] No, I think we pretty much have the situation
pegged
[19:50] knock them off via diplomacy.
[19:50] <[RP]_ruby_maser> I can see their military advisor saying "lets
bonk some heads"
[19:50] but, for the record, I agree that your
assessment is most likely.
[19:51] New derogatory term for Luxians: "Mushroom
Heads"
[19:51]
[19:52] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> They've had one too many blunts
[19:52] I'm nearly done at the office. Luckily, was
only bothered once this afternoon (ignored a lot of calls, though ...)
[19:52] Are we going to get a log of this chat?
[19:52] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Ignoring--Your Key to Success!
[19:52] if someone logged it, email to me and GF
[19:53] <[RP]_ruby_maser> I thought ET did
[19:53] I'm going to put some files away, shut things
down, clean up, go home.
[19:53] makes you seem important, blowing off your
colleagues.
[19:53] clients' parents, mostly.
[19:53] Ouch..... oh well.
[19:53] Have to call them back tomorrow
[19:53] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> why?
[19:54] Have a good dinner Sir Lord Togas.
[19:54] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> :P
[19:54] Did anybody get a log?
[19:54] ET often logs. He's eating now. When he
returns, he can email it
[19:54] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Grand Despot Togas, Lord of the Light
of the Infinite Wisdom, by the Grace of the Spirits, may your
dinnertime be a most excellent time, and may the food be the food of the gods.
[19:55] okay
[19:55] I will return tonight.
[19:55] Good to chat with you, Ghengis. This is an
interesting affair Lux has gotten into
[19:55] <[RP]_ruby_maser> Luxgate
[19:56] goodnight for now.
[19:56] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> :P
[19:56] <[RP]_ruby_maser> well, if that is it, I must be off.
goodnight everyone
[19:56] * Togas_at_Work has quit IRC (Quit: )
[19:56] * [RP]_ruby_maser has quit IRC (Quit: )
[19:56] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Grand Despot Togas, Lord of the Light
of the Infinite Wisdom, by the Grace of the Spirits, you yourself have
an excellent night.
[19:56] Lux Sucks (at military strategy)
[19:56] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> damn. he left
[19:56] Lux sucks big time.
[19:57] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Sucks Invicta
[19:57] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> "Suxians"
[19:57] SuxVicta
[19:57] Sounds like some sort of Lizard
[19:57] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> hey! that can be a great derogatory
name to verbally abuse them once we make them our slaves!
[19:57] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[19:57] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> j/k
[19:57]
[19:57] No you weren't
[19:58] he was. I wasn't
[19:58] Ninot - As you are taking over for GS, let me know if
there is anything I can do.
[19:58] ninot's quiet
[19:59] Ninot is taking over my ambasador dutis to GS
[19:59] wow - look at all my typo's....
[19:59] Are you taking a minister position?
[20:00] no - we don't have any ministers - despotism.
[20:00] oh
[20:00] I had computer problems that caused me to resign
[20:00] <[RP]_Aidun> back
[20:00] I couldn't reasonably do the job.
[20:00] oh
[20:01] Most of the problems are now fixed (I hope).
[20:01] but it is good to have some new blood every now and
then.
[20:01] oh
[20:01] * [RP]_Aidun is now known as Aidun-exam_tomorrow
[20:02] I gotta go guy's
[20:02] Well, I'm gong to go work on Moo3 flags.
[20:02] FYI - just between us, it looks like there may be
another war going on over there
[20:02] Nice discussion this night
[20:02] where?
[20:02] With you
[20:02] ?
[20:02] GS to be on the receiving end of several immortals....
[20:03] bye
[20:03] is Vox the Persians?
[20:03] Yep.
[20:03] later Aidun
[20:03] But GS has the think tank
[20:03] * Aidun-exam_tomorrow has left #2
[20:04] ya, and war chariots, and only two civs on a small
island with only enough room for 8 cities total is what we hear
[20:04] ouch
[20:04] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> Atlantis
[20:04] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[20:04] Think they have room for Lux
[20:04] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell>
[20:04]
[20:05] They hinted that they see lots of warriors to their
north. If they are not being upgraded, it is only due to lack of funds or
iron
[20:06] what do you think 6 immortals will do to a civ with only
4-5 cities?
[20:07] depends on what is in the cities, they have a
defense fo 2, so war chariots shoudl attack the Immortals
[20:08] ya, if they get the chance. I hate to see war so soon.
I think they would prefer to win without war, but they see it comming
[20:08] <[Bobling-RP]mrmitchell> 6 immortals + 5 enemy cities = total
devestation
[20:09] ya. If I was playing persia, that is what I would be
looking to do.
[20:09] even if you had to start with an archer rush to capture
Iron
[20:09] Opps, maybe I shouldnt' have told Vox I wanted to
trade GS Horseback RIding
[20:10] no - they want them to have it. No more WC.
[20:10] horsie is more expensive, and doesn't give a golden age.
[20:10] true
[20:12] Gotta go. GF, I will PM you tomarrow with details about
what we talked about earlier. Thanks.
[20:12] bye
[20:12] * GK21 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[20:13] * GhengisFarb has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[20:18] 4 ending log now, will send to GF, Togas &
Arnelos
Session Close: Thu Feb 13 20:18:23 2003