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I haven't posted the chat logs in a while since we haven't really talked substantially (though there have been chats every thursday at 1 pm EDT)
This one is important, please read:
Start of #gow_cofa buffer: Fri May 28 12:52:57 2004
[11:55] * Now talking in #gow_cofa
[11:55] * services.apolyton.net changes topic to 'The Glory of Diplomacy: Who
needs the UN when you have #GoW_CoFA?'
[11:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr
[11:57] * Darekill has joined #gow_cofa
[11:57] [Darekill] Hi!
[11:58] [MasterZen] hey
[11:58] [MasterZen] how's it going?
[11:58] [Darekill] fine
[12:00] [Darekill] how are you?
[12:00] [MasterZen] heheh, I went to a party last night... I'm a bit hung over
;S
[12:01] [Darekill] Nothing like a good hang over
[12:02] [MasterZen] yes, terrible...
[12:03] [MasterZen] this is when I say I will never drink again... but I do :P
[12:03] [Darekill] I've got something in my mind.
[12:03] [Darekill] You know what the bad thing about contracts and treatys is?
[12:04] [MasterZen] what
[12:04] [Darekill] they are easyli broken or bended to the point it is almost
like broken.
[12:05] [Darekill] we talked earlier about winning this game together right?
[12:05] [MasterZen] yes
[12:05] [Darekill] how far would you go to win thing together.
[12:06] [Darekill] I mean what would you be ready to sacrifice for it.
[12:06] [MasterZen] I don't think there's much sacrifice in victory...
[12:07] [Darekill] maybe there is.
[12:07] [MasterZen] other than the intarnishable reputation of the Glory of
War
[12:07] [MasterZen] people know we're usually up to no good
[12:08] [Darekill] Would it ring a bell if i would introduce the term :"United
states of Bobconia"
[12:08] [MasterZen] hmm... I don't like the "united states" part, other than
that, good
[12:09] [MasterZen] How about, "the Bobconian Federation"?
[12:09] [MasterZen] "Glory of Demogyptica"? hehehe
[12:09] [Darekill] Names are not impostant. the idea is.
[12:09] [MasterZen] yes I know
[12:10] [MasterZen] well, to be honest we have been working as a super-civ
already. Joint research, sharing of workers...
[12:10] [Darekill] We would not have to publish it. but I would want to have
"the eye" in the game
[12:10] [MasterZen] yeah, this would be a secret until the last turn
[12:11] [Darekill] good.
[12:12] [Darekill] I'm willing to go this path. We should tell Trip about it
as soon as we made up this idea completely.
[12:12] [MasterZen] ok
[12:12] [Darekill] It would mea if one of us wins we would both have won
because from this very point we would act as one nation for the rest of the
game secret but effectiv .
[12:13] [Darekill] mean
[12:13] [MasterZen] yep
[12:13] [Darekill] I think that could be done.
[12:13] [MasterZen] whoever wins "technically" (i.e. launches spaceship)
doesn't matter, we write a joint declaration of victory
[12:13] [MasterZen] and Trip confirms it
[12:14] [Darekill] thats what was in my mind.
[12:14] [MasterZen] good
* Retrieving #gow_cofa modes...
[12:15] [Darekill] A lot of members of my team still are very suspicious about
you would go to betray us. thus the wall of Ansrs outsid our citys which
you must have noticed
[12:15] [MasterZen] ah yes, we sent back a rider and noticed that wall
[12:15] [Darekill] I have notivced that on the other hand there are almost no
citys of you have any protection.
[12:16] [MasterZen] btw, we still have 2 riders down south, but they are not
in your cultural territory
[12:16] [MasterZen] I think it's obvious what would be the world reaction if
one of us attacked the other...
[12:17] [Darekill] If we would set up this contract. there would not be any
need for us to act up against each other it would make things a lot easier
[12:17] [MasterZen] agreed completely
[12:17] [MasterZen] though it would still be best if some sort of tension
appeared, at least that the other teams perceived
[12:18] [Darekill] Oh of cours to be honest the thought was tempting to go and
take over GoW. We coud have dealt you a strike which would have crushed you
[12:18] [MasterZen] lol
[12:18] [MasterZen] trust me, I've had that thought more than once... hehehe
[12:18] [Darekill] but then we would have been the bad ass of the game.
[12:18] [MasterZen] yes, a RoP rape would be very damaging
[12:18] [Darekill] All the others would go really mad.
[12:19] [MasterZen] though "technically" it is valid, most people would likely
consider it as a cheesy tactic
[12:19] [Darekill] They wouldn't deal with us anymor in no other ISDG either.
[12:20] [Darekill] In that aspect I think humans are less forgiving then the
AI is
[12:20] [MasterZen] totally
[12:21] [MasterZen] Zayxus was always a bit paranoid of us
[12:21] [Darekill] I told everyone that you would know this too and that this
was the reason i did trust in you. You would not be so stupid to fall for
the temptation.
[12:21] [MasterZen] the only reason I'd do a RoP rape in a demogame like this
is if I were 100% sure that another team was going to do it to us
[12:22] [Darekill] I always try to think that an oponent is at least as clever
as I am. Which is not much in any way
[12:22] [MasterZen] hehe
[12:22] [Darekill] So fine we got there fast.
[12:22] [Darekill] I still have to introduce the thought to my team.
[12:23] [MasterZen] and to be honest, the RoP was in a way, the de facto
insurance that neither team was going to attack the other
[12:23] [MasterZen] precisely because doing so would be so damaging
[12:23] [Darekill] they are still arguing about giving away to much citys or
luxurys or borders or having to few defenders
[12:24] [Darekill] even that your workers that work for us are blocking
something came up.
[12:25] [MasterZen] the funny this is
[12:25] [MasterZen] my team is just as paranoid
[12:25] [MasterZen] *thing
[12:25] [Darekill] All this would be settlet then because if we would be
united it wouldn't matter who sels what as long as it works for us
[12:25] [MasterZen] yeah
[12:25] [Darekill] oh paranoia is a pain in the ass of every reasonable leader
[12:26] [Darekill] but it is necessary.
[12:26] [MasterZen] helps us not be so naive
[12:26] [Darekill] I still don't know how Vodrak takes the cooling down of our
relation.
[12:26] [MasterZen] he must probably think it's an evil GoW plan
[12:27] [MasterZen] you know, I'm more paranoid of Lego invading us than
anything else
[12:27] [Darekill] actually it is.
[12:27] [MasterZen] well, yes...
[12:27] [Darekill] But it was our plan as well.
[12:27] [Darekill] I was analysing this thing a long time and just could not
find a way to win the game for ND.
[12:28] [MasterZen] me too
[12:28] [Darekill] then I thought maybe if you and GS would attack Lego and we
could stay clear out of trouble
[12:29] [MasterZen] hahaha
[12:29] [Darekill] But lately I found out that this would not happen :grrr:
[12:29] [MasterZen] we were going to do that anyway :P
[12:29] [MasterZen] well, as long as we had an assurance that ND would not
backstab us
[12:29] [Darekill] Yes but not soon enough for us.
[12:29] [MasterZen] and I doubt that could happen. So my team would probably
not like it
[12:29] [MasterZen] my goal is simple:
[12:30] [MasterZen] turn GoW into a manufacturing powerhouse. Whatever plans
come up, we'll be ready then
[12:30] [Darekill] right.
[12:30] [Darekill] We are building a lot of infrastucture right now.
[12:30] [MasterZen] good
[12:30] [Darekill] Since I took over there were no beackers spend into
military anymore.
[12:31] [MasterZen] factories factories factories!
[12:31] [Darekill] Zayxus spend a lot to upgrade and to grow citys.
[12:31] [Darekill] That was not good.
[12:31] [MasterZen] that's the problem, he was always too paranoid of Go
[12:31] [MasterZen] *GoW
[12:32] [MasterZen] though I don't blame him
[12:32] [Darekill] I honour his engagement in this game but he did not see
what i see.
[12:32] [Darekill] I think my path is better now.
[12:32] [Darekill] If we unite we hav a chance.
[12:32] [MasterZen] yep
[12:33] [MasterZen] better to be co-winners, than plain losers
[12:33] [Darekill] right and it strikes both ways. Our paranoia would be the
insurance for Lego to win.
[12:34] [Darekill] not that i think lego would be bad winners but i think
better us then them
[12:34] [MasterZen] GS isn't stupid either, they know they can probably sneak
a win if we fail
[12:34] [Darekill] of course.
[12:34] [MasterZen] GS, believe me, is much more dangerous now because they
actually have good diplomacy now :P
[12:34] [Darekill] But i think we can buy tech from them
[12:34] [MasterZen] however, GS is plainly on our side. I trust them
completely right now
[12:35] [Darekill] better to buy from them then from Lego.
[12:35] [Darekill] fine
[12:35] [Darekill] since we already started to negotiate some deals with them.
[12:36] [Darekill] like a tech for 20% of the research costs.
[12:37] [MasterZen] has GS told you if ND has oil?
[12:37] [Darekill] no they did not up till now.
[12:37] [Darekill] but I can ask them.
[12:38] [Darekill] there are good chances that we might have.
[12:38] [Darekill] a lot of jungle.
[12:39] [MasterZen] oil is in desert and tundra
[12:39] [MasterZen] btw, I have not seen a single tundra tile in the whole
map... wierd
[12:39] [Darekill] hmmm right. I thought I spotets it in jungle too sometimes.
[12:39] [Darekill] all the tundra on Leo?
[12:40] [Darekill] lego
[12:40] [MasterZen] perhaps
[12:41] [MasterZen] but I doubt it
[12:41] [MasterZen] lego doesn't go as south as ND, and ND doesn't have tundra
[12:41] [MasterZen] (i think)
[12:41] * Darekill thinks there may be some undiscovered land...
[12:42] [MasterZen] perhaps to the south, yes
[12:42] [MasterZen] i'd send a ship but our fleet is up north :P
[12:42] [Darekill] our frigatte (yes singular) the "NDD Südstern" can sail
south.
[12:43] [Darekill] it is between Lego and GS noe.
[12:43] [Darekill] now
[12:43] [MasterZen] it'lll be too far to be productive, that's for sure
[12:43] [MasterZen] but maybe it has uranium
[12:44] [Darekill] hmm...
[12:44] [MasterZen] uranium = B * O * O * M
[12:44] * Darekill think ND will equip a settler ship or two just in case.
[12:45] [Darekill] two frigattes wit one Glleon and each wth a settler and an
infantry.
[12:45] [Darekill] with Galeon with and
[12:45] [Darekill] i should definitly take my time typing...
[12:46] [MasterZen] at least you're not typing with a hangover :P
[12:46] [Darekill] yep
[12:47] [MasterZen] so, we agree on making Fridays the official chat day for
the next 7 weeks?
[12:47] [Darekill] I can't help it but I signed that when I got married 17
years ago...
[12:47] [MasterZen] hehe
[12:47] [MasterZen] 17 years is a long time, congratulations
[12:47] [Darekill] well actually for the next 5 weeks what comes after that I
can'T tell.
[12:47] [MasterZen] ok
[12:48] [Darekill] yes and still beeing kind of happy is something I'm proud
of.
[12:48] [MasterZen] keep it up then
[12:49] * MasterZen doesn't want to get married until I'm 30
[12:49] [Darekill] O.k. i think I introduce my people with the thought of "the
Bobconian Federation"
[12:49] [MasterZen] yes, same here
[12:49] [Darekill] I'm almost sur we can get this fixed.
[12:49] [MasterZen] "The Glory of Demogyptica"
[12:49] [Darekill] would be fine too.
[12:50] [Darekill] there will be a lot of work to do but I think it'l be worth
it.
[12:50] [MasterZen] at least it's our only viable way of winnign
[12:50] [MasterZen] *winning
[12:50] [Darekill] exactly and that'S why I think i get it done.
[12:51] [Darekill] so anything else? Something that I'd have to do next turn?
[12:51] [MasterZen] not really
[12:51] [Darekill] Send more money for research?
[12:51] [MasterZen] we sent you steel this last turn
[12:51] [MasterZen] we're not researching right now. GS is doing Combustion
[12:52] [Darekill] good.
[12:52] [MasterZen] i'd suggest you get cash and use it to buy techs
[12:52] [Darekill] we do.
[12:52] [Darekill] till next week.
[12:52] [MasterZen] cool
[12:52] [MasterZen] cya
[12:52] [MasterZen]
[12:52] * Darekill has left #gow_cofa
End of #gow_cofa buffer Fri May 28 12:52:57 2004
This one is important, please read:
Start of #gow_cofa buffer: Fri May 28 12:52:57 2004
[11:55] * Now talking in #gow_cofa
[11:55] * services.apolyton.net changes topic to 'The Glory of Diplomacy: Who
needs the UN when you have #GoW_CoFA?'
[11:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr
[11:57] * Darekill has joined #gow_cofa
[11:57] [Darekill] Hi!
[11:58] [MasterZen] hey
[11:58] [MasterZen] how's it going?
[11:58] [Darekill] fine
[12:00] [Darekill] how are you?
[12:00] [MasterZen] heheh, I went to a party last night... I'm a bit hung over
;S
[12:01] [Darekill] Nothing like a good hang over
[12:02] [MasterZen] yes, terrible...
[12:03] [MasterZen] this is when I say I will never drink again... but I do :P
[12:03] [Darekill] I've got something in my mind.
[12:03] [Darekill] You know what the bad thing about contracts and treatys is?
[12:04] [MasterZen] what
[12:04] [Darekill] they are easyli broken or bended to the point it is almost
like broken.
[12:05] [Darekill] we talked earlier about winning this game together right?
[12:05] [MasterZen] yes
[12:05] [Darekill] how far would you go to win thing together.
[12:06] [Darekill] I mean what would you be ready to sacrifice for it.
[12:06] [MasterZen] I don't think there's much sacrifice in victory...
[12:07] [Darekill] maybe there is.
[12:07] [MasterZen] other than the intarnishable reputation of the Glory of
War
[12:07] [MasterZen] people know we're usually up to no good
[12:08] [Darekill] Would it ring a bell if i would introduce the term :"United
states of Bobconia"
[12:08] [MasterZen] hmm... I don't like the "united states" part, other than
that, good
[12:09] [MasterZen] How about, "the Bobconian Federation"?
[12:09] [MasterZen] "Glory of Demogyptica"? hehehe
[12:09] [Darekill] Names are not impostant. the idea is.
[12:09] [MasterZen] yes I know
[12:10] [MasterZen] well, to be honest we have been working as a super-civ
already. Joint research, sharing of workers...
[12:10] [Darekill] We would not have to publish it. but I would want to have
"the eye" in the game
[12:10] [MasterZen] yeah, this would be a secret until the last turn
[12:11] [Darekill] good.
[12:12] [Darekill] I'm willing to go this path. We should tell Trip about it
as soon as we made up this idea completely.
[12:12] [MasterZen] ok
[12:12] [Darekill] It would mea if one of us wins we would both have won
because from this very point we would act as one nation for the rest of the
game secret but effectiv .
[12:13] [Darekill] mean
[12:13] [MasterZen] yep
[12:13] [Darekill] I think that could be done.
[12:13] [MasterZen] whoever wins "technically" (i.e. launches spaceship)
doesn't matter, we write a joint declaration of victory
[12:13] [MasterZen] and Trip confirms it
[12:14] [Darekill] thats what was in my mind.
[12:14] [MasterZen] good
* Retrieving #gow_cofa modes...
[12:15] [Darekill] A lot of members of my team still are very suspicious about
you would go to betray us. thus the wall of Ansrs outsid our citys which
you must have noticed
[12:15] [MasterZen] ah yes, we sent back a rider and noticed that wall
[12:15] [Darekill] I have notivced that on the other hand there are almost no
citys of you have any protection.
[12:16] [MasterZen] btw, we still have 2 riders down south, but they are not
in your cultural territory
[12:16] [MasterZen] I think it's obvious what would be the world reaction if
one of us attacked the other...
[12:17] [Darekill] If we would set up this contract. there would not be any
need for us to act up against each other it would make things a lot easier
[12:17] [MasterZen] agreed completely
[12:17] [MasterZen] though it would still be best if some sort of tension
appeared, at least that the other teams perceived
[12:18] [Darekill] Oh of cours to be honest the thought was tempting to go and
take over GoW. We coud have dealt you a strike which would have crushed you
[12:18] [MasterZen] lol
[12:18] [MasterZen] trust me, I've had that thought more than once... hehehe
[12:18] [Darekill] but then we would have been the bad ass of the game.
[12:18] [MasterZen] yes, a RoP rape would be very damaging
[12:18] [Darekill] All the others would go really mad.
[12:19] [MasterZen] though "technically" it is valid, most people would likely
consider it as a cheesy tactic
[12:19] [Darekill] They wouldn't deal with us anymor in no other ISDG either.
[12:20] [Darekill] In that aspect I think humans are less forgiving then the
AI is
[12:20] [MasterZen] totally
[12:21] [MasterZen] Zayxus was always a bit paranoid of us
[12:21] [Darekill] I told everyone that you would know this too and that this
was the reason i did trust in you. You would not be so stupid to fall for
the temptation.
[12:21] [MasterZen] the only reason I'd do a RoP rape in a demogame like this
is if I were 100% sure that another team was going to do it to us
[12:22] [Darekill] I always try to think that an oponent is at least as clever
as I am. Which is not much in any way
[12:22] [MasterZen] hehe
[12:22] [Darekill] So fine we got there fast.
[12:22] [Darekill] I still have to introduce the thought to my team.
[12:23] [MasterZen] and to be honest, the RoP was in a way, the de facto
insurance that neither team was going to attack the other
[12:23] [MasterZen] precisely because doing so would be so damaging
[12:23] [Darekill] they are still arguing about giving away to much citys or
luxurys or borders or having to few defenders
[12:24] [Darekill] even that your workers that work for us are blocking
something came up.
[12:25] [MasterZen] the funny this is
[12:25] [MasterZen] my team is just as paranoid
[12:25] [MasterZen] *thing
[12:25] [Darekill] All this would be settlet then because if we would be
united it wouldn't matter who sels what as long as it works for us
[12:25] [MasterZen] yeah
[12:25] [Darekill] oh paranoia is a pain in the ass of every reasonable leader
[12:26] [Darekill] but it is necessary.
[12:26] [MasterZen] helps us not be so naive
[12:26] [Darekill] I still don't know how Vodrak takes the cooling down of our
relation.
[12:26] [MasterZen] he must probably think it's an evil GoW plan
[12:27] [MasterZen] you know, I'm more paranoid of Lego invading us than
anything else
[12:27] [Darekill] actually it is.
[12:27] [MasterZen] well, yes...
[12:27] [Darekill] But it was our plan as well.
[12:27] [Darekill] I was analysing this thing a long time and just could not
find a way to win the game for ND.
[12:28] [MasterZen] me too
[12:28] [Darekill] then I thought maybe if you and GS would attack Lego and we
could stay clear out of trouble
[12:29] [MasterZen] hahaha
[12:29] [Darekill] But lately I found out that this would not happen :grrr:
[12:29] [MasterZen] we were going to do that anyway :P
[12:29] [MasterZen] well, as long as we had an assurance that ND would not
backstab us
[12:29] [Darekill] Yes but not soon enough for us.
[12:29] [MasterZen] and I doubt that could happen. So my team would probably
not like it
[12:29] [MasterZen] my goal is simple:
[12:30] [MasterZen] turn GoW into a manufacturing powerhouse. Whatever plans
come up, we'll be ready then
[12:30] [Darekill] right.
[12:30] [Darekill] We are building a lot of infrastucture right now.
[12:30] [MasterZen] good
[12:30] [Darekill] Since I took over there were no beackers spend into
military anymore.
[12:31] [MasterZen] factories factories factories!
[12:31] [Darekill] Zayxus spend a lot to upgrade and to grow citys.
[12:31] [Darekill] That was not good.
[12:31] [MasterZen] that's the problem, he was always too paranoid of Go
[12:31] [MasterZen] *GoW
[12:32] [MasterZen] though I don't blame him
[12:32] [Darekill] I honour his engagement in this game but he did not see
what i see.
[12:32] [Darekill] I think my path is better now.
[12:32] [Darekill] If we unite we hav a chance.
[12:32] [MasterZen] yep
[12:33] [MasterZen] better to be co-winners, than plain losers
[12:33] [Darekill] right and it strikes both ways. Our paranoia would be the
insurance for Lego to win.
[12:34] [Darekill] not that i think lego would be bad winners but i think
better us then them
[12:34] [MasterZen] GS isn't stupid either, they know they can probably sneak
a win if we fail
[12:34] [Darekill] of course.
[12:34] [MasterZen] GS, believe me, is much more dangerous now because they
actually have good diplomacy now :P
[12:34] [Darekill] But i think we can buy tech from them
[12:34] [MasterZen] however, GS is plainly on our side. I trust them
completely right now
[12:35] [Darekill] better to buy from them then from Lego.
[12:35] [Darekill] fine
[12:35] [Darekill] since we already started to negotiate some deals with them.
[12:36] [Darekill] like a tech for 20% of the research costs.
[12:37] [MasterZen] has GS told you if ND has oil?
[12:37] [Darekill] no they did not up till now.
[12:37] [Darekill] but I can ask them.
[12:38] [Darekill] there are good chances that we might have.
[12:38] [Darekill] a lot of jungle.
[12:39] [MasterZen] oil is in desert and tundra
[12:39] [MasterZen] btw, I have not seen a single tundra tile in the whole
map... wierd
[12:39] [Darekill] hmmm right. I thought I spotets it in jungle too sometimes.
[12:39] [Darekill] all the tundra on Leo?
[12:40] [Darekill] lego
[12:40] [MasterZen] perhaps
[12:41] [MasterZen] but I doubt it
[12:41] [MasterZen] lego doesn't go as south as ND, and ND doesn't have tundra
[12:41] [MasterZen] (i think)
[12:41] * Darekill thinks there may be some undiscovered land...
[12:42] [MasterZen] perhaps to the south, yes
[12:42] [MasterZen] i'd send a ship but our fleet is up north :P
[12:42] [Darekill] our frigatte (yes singular) the "NDD Südstern" can sail
south.
[12:43] [Darekill] it is between Lego and GS noe.
[12:43] [Darekill] now
[12:43] [MasterZen] it'lll be too far to be productive, that's for sure
[12:43] [MasterZen] but maybe it has uranium
[12:44] [Darekill] hmm...
[12:44] [MasterZen] uranium = B * O * O * M
[12:44] * Darekill think ND will equip a settler ship or two just in case.
[12:45] [Darekill] two frigattes wit one Glleon and each wth a settler and an
infantry.
[12:45] [Darekill] with Galeon with and
[12:45] [Darekill] i should definitly take my time typing...
[12:46] [MasterZen] at least you're not typing with a hangover :P
[12:46] [Darekill] yep
[12:47] [MasterZen] so, we agree on making Fridays the official chat day for
the next 7 weeks?
[12:47] [Darekill] I can't help it but I signed that when I got married 17
years ago...
[12:47] [MasterZen] hehe
[12:47] [MasterZen] 17 years is a long time, congratulations
[12:47] [Darekill] well actually for the next 5 weeks what comes after that I
can'T tell.
[12:47] [MasterZen] ok
[12:48] [Darekill] yes and still beeing kind of happy is something I'm proud
of.
[12:48] [MasterZen] keep it up then
[12:49] * MasterZen doesn't want to get married until I'm 30
[12:49] [Darekill] O.k. i think I introduce my people with the thought of "the
Bobconian Federation"
[12:49] [MasterZen] yes, same here
[12:49] [Darekill] I'm almost sur we can get this fixed.
[12:49] [MasterZen] "The Glory of Demogyptica"
[12:49] [Darekill] would be fine too.
[12:50] [Darekill] there will be a lot of work to do but I think it'l be worth
it.
[12:50] [MasterZen] at least it's our only viable way of winnign
[12:50] [MasterZen] *winning
[12:50] [Darekill] exactly and that'S why I think i get it done.
[12:51] [Darekill] so anything else? Something that I'd have to do next turn?
[12:51] [MasterZen] not really
[12:51] [Darekill] Send more money for research?
[12:51] [MasterZen] we sent you steel this last turn
[12:51] [MasterZen] we're not researching right now. GS is doing Combustion
[12:52] [Darekill] good.
[12:52] [MasterZen] i'd suggest you get cash and use it to buy techs
[12:52] [Darekill] we do.
[12:52] [Darekill] till next week.
[12:52] [MasterZen] cool
[12:52] [MasterZen] cya
[12:52] [MasterZen]
[12:52] * Darekill has left #gow_cofa
End of #gow_cofa buffer Fri May 28 12:52:57 2004
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