Tweet
from yesterday:
Session Start: Thu Feb 05 10:19:05 2004
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
[10:19] * Now talking in #gow_cofa
[10:19] * services.apolyton.net changes topic to 'The Glory of Diplomacy'
[10:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr
[14:00] * Zayxus has joined #gow_cofa
[14:00] [Zayxus] hi
[14:01] [MasterZen] hello!
[14:02] * MasterZen sets mode: +o Zayxus
[14:02] [MasterZen] how are you today?
[14:02] [Zayxus] thank you , fine
[14:02] [Zayxus] (and a little hungry
)
[14:03] [MasterZen] yeah me too
[14:03] [MasterZen] well, there's a few things I'd like to talk about
[14:03] [Zayxus] yes?
[14:04] [MasterZen] next turn we get Metallurgy. After that we are doing Military Tradition, will ND cooperate with us for this tech?
[14:04] [Zayxus] yes, for me.
[14:05] [MasterZen] perfect
[14:05] [MasterZen] also, I tried to get GS to allow us to trade Physics with you but they insist on 20 turns non-trade :S
[14:06] [Zayxus] oh
[14:06] [MasterZen] but well, we can give it to you free after that anyway
[14:06] [MasterZen] I think GS is paranoid of you. And even more paranoid of Lego
[14:07] [Zayxus] physics is for magnetism...
[14:07] [MasterZen] no, physics is for chemistry. Magnetism is for Metalllurgy
[14:08] [Zayxus] Maybe, GS would **** to sell physics to everyone.
[14:08] [MasterZen] hehe
[14:08] [Zayxus] physics is already ours?
[14:09] [MasterZen] they will send it to us once we send them 300g for their beaker loss
[14:10] [Zayxus] try to offer 'not accepted'? 300 is not too much, is it?
[14:10] [MasterZen] this was the problem, we had problems negotiating physics-chemistry. They lost 1 turn of deficit research doing chemistry until we offered them 300g extra so that they could switch to physics
[14:11] [MasterZen] this enabled us to trade magnetism-metallurgy. So in short, we are getting magnetism for only 300g
[14:12] [MasterZen] if we didn't pay them 300g, we would have had to trade metallurgy-physics, which is not efficient since then we would have to do Magnetism by ourselves
[14:12] [Zayxus] right
[14:13] [MasterZen] the problem, like I said, is that GS doesn't want us to trade you physics. But I have an idea
[14:14] [MasterZen] maybe once Lego gets Physics, we can send it to you so GS thinks that you and Lego traded it
[14:14] [Zayxus] try it?
[14:15] [MasterZen] ?
[14:15] [Zayxus] how do you know, if a civ has a tech?
[14:16] [MasterZen] well, if we have physics. When we go to the diplomacy screen we are able to offer it to someone else. If the other civ already has that tech, we can't offer it
[14:17] [Zayxus] I remember.
[14:17] [Zayxus] It could work.
[14:18] [Zayxus] in how many turns could that be: Physics finished at Leggo?
[14:18] [MasterZen] hopefully less than 20
[14:18] [MasterZen] Lego and GS seem to hate each other. GS doesn't want to trade anything with Lego
[14:20] [Zayxus] Don't mind. perhaps Lego and ND could find a deal about Physics.
[14:21] [MasterZen] ok
[14:21] [Zayxus] what is the aim in next age?
[14:21] [MasterZen] i'd say Industrialization
[14:22] [MasterZen] btw, if ND and GoW were to get involved in a war, who would you prefer to fight, GS or Lego?
[14:22] * aggie has joined #gow_cofa
[14:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o aggie
[14:22] [MasterZen] heya aggie
[14:22] [Zayxus] hello
[14:22] [aggie] hi there
[14:23] [aggie] i can't really participate today, but wanted to come by to show i didn't forget
[14:23] [Zayxus] about the question: GS
[14:23] [aggie] ok
[14:24] [MasterZen] but if we go to war against GS, won't Lego be able to get ahead? They have a huge con tinent and probably want to win the space race
[14:25] [Zayxus] depends on jungle to be cleared.
[14:25] [MasterZen] another possibility: we do not go to war, we reach the modern age, one of us builds the space ship, the other builds ICBMs and nukes the crap out of Lego
[14:26] [Zayxus]
[14:26] [aggie] also remeber for the short term. We get free tech with new age
[14:27] [aggie] is lego scientific
[14:27] [MasterZen] no
[14:27] [MasterZen] lego is com/ind
[14:28] [MasterZen] we don't get free tech either: we're ind/mil
[14:28] [aggie] isn't china scientific
[14:28] [MasterZen] nope
[14:28] [MasterZen] the only scientific civ right now is Vox
[14:28] [aggie] ok
[14:29] [aggie] thats what i get for playing random civs, I rarely play either one enough to remeber
[14:29] [MasterZen] lol
[14:29] [aggie] well i'll shut up then
[14:29] [aggie]
[14:29] [MasterZen] well historically china could pretty much be every trait
[14:30] [aggie] thats true
[14:30] [aggie] well i must gobut will remainn online to see what is said when i get back in 30
[14:30] [MasterZen] ok
[14:30] * aggie is now known as aggieaway
[14:30] [MasterZen] kill Lego! kill Lego!
[14:31] [Zayxus] when , with which tech would be a another war?
[14:31] [MasterZen] I don't want them to win without a fight
[14:31] [MasterZen] well, if we were against Lego we might get GS to help us
[14:31] [MasterZen] if we fight GS, it will likely be only ND/GoW
[14:32] [Zayxus] the 3 smaller attack the biggest?
[14:32] [MasterZen] you know, ND/GoW/GS could probably put over 100 mobile units into battle...
[14:32] [MasterZen] yes
[14:32] [MasterZen] the problem is we'd need a lot of ships
[14:33] [Zayxus] sure
[14:33] [Zayxus] or airplaines
[14:33] [MasterZen] 8 galleons could transport 32 units
[14:33] [MasterZen] 3 fleets = 96 units
[14:34] [Zayxus] at once
[14:34] [MasterZen] then again, we'd also need defensive units
[14:35] [Zayxus] on sea and land?
[14:35] [MasterZen] well, if the attack were a surprise we might not need that many ships
[14:35] [MasterZen] for defense
[14:35] [MasterZen] (or rather, to attack Lego's ships)
[14:36] [Zayxus] what should Legoland target to counter attack?
[14:37] [MasterZen] well, if we managed to land, they'd have to destroy our stacks
[14:37] [MasterZen] if they don't have railroads, it is likely they won't be able to concentrate their entire army which is good for us
[14:38] [MasterZen] once they get railroads it will be much much more difficult
[14:39] [MasterZen] there is one very big problem though: GS might be tempted to backstab us
[14:39] [Zayxus] how sure is it, that GS would not attack Bob in between?
[14:39] [MasterZen] hehe, I see we think alike
[14:39] [Zayxus] it is the old question of alliances
[14:39] [MasterZen] well, I'd say the odds are considerable
[14:40] [MasterZen] perhaps 50%?
[14:40] [Zayxus] GS needs more land, they wrote in the thread
[14:40] [MasterZen] yep
[14:40] [Zayxus] which land?
[14:41] [MasterZen] well, if I were them, I'd obviously invade Bob. But I am not them :P
[14:42] [Zayxus] north or south of Bob? which land is more rich?
[14:43] [MasterZen] northern bob and southeastern bob are very rich. But the south is not yet fully developed so perhaps they might think of invading the south. Last time they invaded GoW it was a disaster for them
[14:43] [Zayxus] what was the desaster?
[14:44] [MasterZen] they got nowhere :P they had to retreat
[14:44] [MasterZen] they could have used those troops in the south instead
[14:45] [Zayxus] at the moment there is so much free in the south of Bob...
[14:46] [Zayxus] I wonder, why GS did retreat in the south?
[14:46] [MasterZen] because we kicked their ass
[14:47] [MasterZen] because we had 70+ mobile units against their 10-15
[14:48] [Zayxus] to break the way of Lego for space, would GOW try also a 'little' war?
[14:49] [MasterZen] a little war against who?
[14:49] [Zayxus] against the quickest civ on the way to the space ship.
[14:50] [MasterZen] will probably be Lego
[14:51] [Zayxus] seems so. and perhaps GS would enter that war then?
[14:51] [MasterZen] maybe
[14:51] [MasterZen] although GS does not have resources, they will likely try to find them somewhere else. That means either Bob or Lego
[14:52] [MasterZen] that might actually be the incentive for them to help us against Lego
[14:53] [Zayxus] with Nationalism: Rifleman and DraftCitizen it would be more hard...
[14:53] [MasterZen] yes, very hard
[14:54] [Zayxus] there is not much time left.
[14:55] [MasterZen] nope
[14:55] [MasterZen] hopefully Vox's free tech is not Nationalism
[14:55] [Zayxus]
[14:56] [Zayxus] how does vox keep with us un techs?
[14:56] [MasterZen] let's hope they don't
[14:57] [MasterZen] btw, I suspect Lego will go into a democracy
[14:58] [Zayxus] GOW not?
[14:59] [MasterZen] I'm not sure. Depends on whether we decide to go to war or not
[14:59] [Zayxus] right
[14:59] [MasterZen] with ND is no problem since you are religious. But we might have some turns of anarchy
[15:00] [Zayxus] hard. how many harbours has GOW to build veteran galleons?
[15:00] [MasterZen] I think 3
[15:01] [MasterZen] don't remember
[15:01] [MasterZen] by the time we get magnetism we'll probably have 4-5
[15:03] [Zayxus] GOW starts to build galleons these next turn?
[15:03] [Zayxus] even without harbors?
[15:03] [MasterZen] we'll be doing them in between improvements
[15:05] [Zayxus] are there other topics to discuss?
[15:05] [MasterZen] not really
[15:07] [Zayxus] how many turns are left to plan before 'Rifleman'?
[15:09] [MasterZen] could be very little
[15:10] [MasterZen] but
[15:10] [MasterZen] we can put a 20 turn no-trade on Metallurgy.
[15:11] [MasterZen] that ensures GoW can reach the industrial before anyone else
[15:11] [MasterZen] we also need to work on Theory of Gravity
[15:12] [Zayxus] I have to think about it: Either a war against Lego as the strongest civ, or try to get GS to accept Lego as the winner .
[15:13] [Zayxus] And this before the age of 'Draft citizen'.
[15:14] [MasterZen] we can always attack Lego later... with ICBMs
[15:15] [Zayxus] until ICBM it is a long way, isn't it?
[15:16] [MasterZen] well it's either now or until then. Once Lego sets up its railroads it will be almost impossible unless we build a lot of infantry and artillery
[15:17] [Zayxus] probably artillery as offensive
[15:18] [MasterZen] it won't be quick. It will be a city-after-city slog
[15:18] [MasterZen] our last chance of a quick war ends with riflemen
[15:19] [Zayxus] right
[15:20] [Zayxus] to get a balance of more equal chances of all bigger civs
[15:21] [Zayxus] The people of Demogyptica have to think about it. I have to do a turn.
[15:21] [MasterZen] ok
[15:21] [MasterZen] we have to discuss it ourselves
[15:21] [MasterZen] they are just ideas
[15:24] [Zayxus] yes. Either a fight for balance of power or a decision of the winner by all civs including GS. To convince GS by fighting them is another idea.
[15:26] [MasterZen] I don't want to decide on the winner. I want GoW/ND to win at all costs.
[15:28] [Zayxus] then we would have to cut down the strongest, right? Even with GS on the side?
[15:28] [MasterZen] and if GoW loses, at least we shall lose fighting, (or building the damn space ship)
[15:28] [MasterZen] yep, or at least damaging Lego enough so that we are all equal
[15:28] [Zayxus] I put the question into the forum.
[15:29] [Zayxus] yes. damaging the strongest.
[15:36] [MasterZen] well, I have to go eat
[15:36] [Zayxus] yes, and I have to do a turn
[15:37] [Zayxus] see you next week?
[15:37] [Zayxus] or a mail?
[15:39] [MasterZen] as you wish. I am usually here anyway
[15:41] [Zayxus] I try to do the turn being online.
[15:41] [MasterZen] ok
[16:04] [Zayxus] turn sent.
[16:04] [Zayxus] bye.
[16:04] * Zayxus has left #gow_cofa
[16:10] * aggieaway has quit IRC (Quit: )
[17:06] * Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Feb 05 17:06:51 2004
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
[10:19] * Now talking in #gow_cofa
[10:19] * services.apolyton.net changes topic to 'The Glory of Diplomacy'
[10:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr
[14:00] * Zayxus has joined #gow_cofa
[14:00] [Zayxus] hi
[14:01] [MasterZen] hello!
[14:02] * MasterZen sets mode: +o Zayxus
[14:02] [MasterZen] how are you today?
[14:02] [Zayxus] thank you , fine
[14:02] [Zayxus] (and a little hungry
)[14:03] [MasterZen] yeah me too
[14:03] [MasterZen] well, there's a few things I'd like to talk about
[14:03] [Zayxus] yes?
[14:04] [MasterZen] next turn we get Metallurgy. After that we are doing Military Tradition, will ND cooperate with us for this tech?
[14:04] [Zayxus] yes, for me.
[14:05] [MasterZen] perfect
[14:05] [MasterZen] also, I tried to get GS to allow us to trade Physics with you but they insist on 20 turns non-trade :S
[14:06] [Zayxus] oh
[14:06] [MasterZen] but well, we can give it to you free after that anyway
[14:06] [MasterZen] I think GS is paranoid of you. And even more paranoid of Lego
[14:07] [Zayxus] physics is for magnetism...
[14:07] [MasterZen] no, physics is for chemistry. Magnetism is for Metalllurgy
[14:08] [Zayxus] Maybe, GS would **** to sell physics to everyone.
[14:08] [MasterZen] hehe
[14:08] [Zayxus] physics is already ours?
[14:09] [MasterZen] they will send it to us once we send them 300g for their beaker loss
[14:10] [Zayxus] try to offer 'not accepted'? 300 is not too much, is it?
[14:10] [MasterZen] this was the problem, we had problems negotiating physics-chemistry. They lost 1 turn of deficit research doing chemistry until we offered them 300g extra so that they could switch to physics
[14:11] [MasterZen] this enabled us to trade magnetism-metallurgy. So in short, we are getting magnetism for only 300g
[14:12] [MasterZen] if we didn't pay them 300g, we would have had to trade metallurgy-physics, which is not efficient since then we would have to do Magnetism by ourselves
[14:12] [Zayxus] right
[14:13] [MasterZen] the problem, like I said, is that GS doesn't want us to trade you physics. But I have an idea
[14:14] [MasterZen] maybe once Lego gets Physics, we can send it to you so GS thinks that you and Lego traded it
[14:14] [Zayxus] try it?
[14:15] [MasterZen] ?
[14:15] [Zayxus] how do you know, if a civ has a tech?
[14:16] [MasterZen] well, if we have physics. When we go to the diplomacy screen we are able to offer it to someone else. If the other civ already has that tech, we can't offer it
[14:17] [Zayxus] I remember.
[14:17] [Zayxus] It could work.
[14:18] [Zayxus] in how many turns could that be: Physics finished at Leggo?
[14:18] [MasterZen] hopefully less than 20
[14:18] [MasterZen] Lego and GS seem to hate each other. GS doesn't want to trade anything with Lego
[14:20] [Zayxus] Don't mind. perhaps Lego and ND could find a deal about Physics.
[14:21] [MasterZen] ok
[14:21] [Zayxus] what is the aim in next age?
[14:21] [MasterZen] i'd say Industrialization
[14:22] [MasterZen] btw, if ND and GoW were to get involved in a war, who would you prefer to fight, GS or Lego?
[14:22] * aggie has joined #gow_cofa
[14:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o aggie
[14:22] [MasterZen] heya aggie
[14:22] [Zayxus] hello
[14:22] [aggie] hi there
[14:23] [aggie] i can't really participate today, but wanted to come by to show i didn't forget
[14:23] [Zayxus] about the question: GS
[14:23] [aggie] ok
[14:24] [MasterZen] but if we go to war against GS, won't Lego be able to get ahead? They have a huge con tinent and probably want to win the space race
[14:25] [Zayxus] depends on jungle to be cleared.
[14:25] [MasterZen] another possibility: we do not go to war, we reach the modern age, one of us builds the space ship, the other builds ICBMs and nukes the crap out of Lego
[14:26] [Zayxus]
[14:26] [aggie] also remeber for the short term. We get free tech with new age
[14:27] [aggie] is lego scientific
[14:27] [MasterZen] no
[14:27] [MasterZen] lego is com/ind
[14:28] [MasterZen] we don't get free tech either: we're ind/mil
[14:28] [aggie] isn't china scientific
[14:28] [MasterZen] nope
[14:28] [MasterZen] the only scientific civ right now is Vox
[14:28] [aggie] ok
[14:29] [aggie] thats what i get for playing random civs, I rarely play either one enough to remeber
[14:29] [MasterZen] lol
[14:29] [aggie] well i'll shut up then
[14:29] [aggie]
[14:29] [MasterZen] well historically china could pretty much be every trait
[14:30] [aggie] thats true
[14:30] [aggie] well i must gobut will remainn online to see what is said when i get back in 30
[14:30] [MasterZen] ok
[14:30] * aggie is now known as aggieaway
[14:30] [MasterZen] kill Lego! kill Lego!
[14:31] [Zayxus] when , with which tech would be a another war?
[14:31] [MasterZen] I don't want them to win without a fight
[14:31] [MasterZen] well, if we were against Lego we might get GS to help us
[14:31] [MasterZen] if we fight GS, it will likely be only ND/GoW
[14:32] [Zayxus] the 3 smaller attack the biggest?
[14:32] [MasterZen] you know, ND/GoW/GS could probably put over 100 mobile units into battle...
[14:32] [MasterZen] yes
[14:32] [MasterZen] the problem is we'd need a lot of ships
[14:33] [Zayxus] sure
[14:33] [Zayxus] or airplaines
[14:33] [MasterZen] 8 galleons could transport 32 units
[14:33] [MasterZen] 3 fleets = 96 units
[14:34] [Zayxus] at once
[14:34] [MasterZen] then again, we'd also need defensive units
[14:35] [Zayxus] on sea and land?
[14:35] [MasterZen] well, if the attack were a surprise we might not need that many ships
[14:35] [MasterZen] for defense
[14:35] [MasterZen] (or rather, to attack Lego's ships)
[14:36] [Zayxus] what should Legoland target to counter attack?
[14:37] [MasterZen] well, if we managed to land, they'd have to destroy our stacks
[14:37] [MasterZen] if they don't have railroads, it is likely they won't be able to concentrate their entire army which is good for us
[14:38] [MasterZen] once they get railroads it will be much much more difficult
[14:39] [MasterZen] there is one very big problem though: GS might be tempted to backstab us
[14:39] [Zayxus] how sure is it, that GS would not attack Bob in between?
[14:39] [MasterZen] hehe, I see we think alike
[14:39] [Zayxus] it is the old question of alliances
[14:39] [MasterZen] well, I'd say the odds are considerable
[14:40] [MasterZen] perhaps 50%?
[14:40] [Zayxus] GS needs more land, they wrote in the thread
[14:40] [MasterZen] yep
[14:40] [Zayxus] which land?
[14:41] [MasterZen] well, if I were them, I'd obviously invade Bob. But I am not them :P
[14:42] [Zayxus] north or south of Bob? which land is more rich?
[14:43] [MasterZen] northern bob and southeastern bob are very rich. But the south is not yet fully developed so perhaps they might think of invading the south. Last time they invaded GoW it was a disaster for them
[14:43] [Zayxus] what was the desaster?
[14:44] [MasterZen] they got nowhere :P they had to retreat
[14:44] [MasterZen] they could have used those troops in the south instead
[14:45] [Zayxus] at the moment there is so much free in the south of Bob...
[14:46] [Zayxus] I wonder, why GS did retreat in the south?
[14:46] [MasterZen] because we kicked their ass
[14:47] [MasterZen] because we had 70+ mobile units against their 10-15
[14:48] [Zayxus] to break the way of Lego for space, would GOW try also a 'little' war?
[14:49] [MasterZen] a little war against who?
[14:49] [Zayxus] against the quickest civ on the way to the space ship.
[14:50] [MasterZen] will probably be Lego
[14:51] [Zayxus] seems so. and perhaps GS would enter that war then?
[14:51] [MasterZen] maybe
[14:51] [MasterZen] although GS does not have resources, they will likely try to find them somewhere else. That means either Bob or Lego
[14:52] [MasterZen] that might actually be the incentive for them to help us against Lego
[14:53] [Zayxus] with Nationalism: Rifleman and DraftCitizen it would be more hard...
[14:53] [MasterZen] yes, very hard
[14:54] [Zayxus] there is not much time left.
[14:55] [MasterZen] nope
[14:55] [MasterZen] hopefully Vox's free tech is not Nationalism
[14:55] [Zayxus]
[14:56] [Zayxus] how does vox keep with us un techs?
[14:56] [MasterZen] let's hope they don't
[14:57] [MasterZen] btw, I suspect Lego will go into a democracy
[14:58] [Zayxus] GOW not?
[14:59] [MasterZen] I'm not sure. Depends on whether we decide to go to war or not
[14:59] [Zayxus] right
[14:59] [MasterZen] with ND is no problem since you are religious. But we might have some turns of anarchy
[15:00] [Zayxus] hard. how many harbours has GOW to build veteran galleons?
[15:00] [MasterZen] I think 3
[15:01] [MasterZen] don't remember
[15:01] [MasterZen] by the time we get magnetism we'll probably have 4-5
[15:03] [Zayxus] GOW starts to build galleons these next turn?
[15:03] [Zayxus] even without harbors?
[15:03] [MasterZen] we'll be doing them in between improvements
[15:05] [Zayxus] are there other topics to discuss?
[15:05] [MasterZen] not really
[15:07] [Zayxus] how many turns are left to plan before 'Rifleman'?
[15:09] [MasterZen] could be very little
[15:10] [MasterZen] but
[15:10] [MasterZen] we can put a 20 turn no-trade on Metallurgy.
[15:11] [MasterZen] that ensures GoW can reach the industrial before anyone else
[15:11] [MasterZen] we also need to work on Theory of Gravity
[15:12] [Zayxus] I have to think about it: Either a war against Lego as the strongest civ, or try to get GS to accept Lego as the winner .
[15:13] [Zayxus] And this before the age of 'Draft citizen'.
[15:14] [MasterZen] we can always attack Lego later... with ICBMs
[15:15] [Zayxus] until ICBM it is a long way, isn't it?
[15:16] [MasterZen] well it's either now or until then. Once Lego sets up its railroads it will be almost impossible unless we build a lot of infantry and artillery
[15:17] [Zayxus] probably artillery as offensive
[15:18] [MasterZen] it won't be quick. It will be a city-after-city slog
[15:18] [MasterZen] our last chance of a quick war ends with riflemen
[15:19] [Zayxus] right
[15:20] [Zayxus] to get a balance of more equal chances of all bigger civs
[15:21] [Zayxus] The people of Demogyptica have to think about it. I have to do a turn.
[15:21] [MasterZen] ok
[15:21] [MasterZen] we have to discuss it ourselves
[15:21] [MasterZen] they are just ideas
[15:24] [Zayxus] yes. Either a fight for balance of power or a decision of the winner by all civs including GS. To convince GS by fighting them is another idea.
[15:26] [MasterZen] I don't want to decide on the winner. I want GoW/ND to win at all costs.
[15:28] [Zayxus] then we would have to cut down the strongest, right? Even with GS on the side?
[15:28] [MasterZen] and if GoW loses, at least we shall lose fighting, (or building the damn space ship)
[15:28] [MasterZen] yep, or at least damaging Lego enough so that we are all equal
[15:28] [Zayxus] I put the question into the forum.
[15:29] [Zayxus] yes. damaging the strongest.
[15:36] [MasterZen] well, I have to go eat
[15:36] [Zayxus] yes, and I have to do a turn
[15:37] [Zayxus] see you next week?
[15:37] [Zayxus] or a mail?
[15:39] [MasterZen] as you wish. I am usually here anyway
[15:41] [Zayxus] I try to do the turn being online.
[15:41] [MasterZen] ok
[16:04] [Zayxus] turn sent.
[16:04] [Zayxus] bye.
[16:04] * Zayxus has left #gow_cofa
[16:10] * aggieaway has quit IRC (Quit: )
[17:06] * Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Feb 05 17:06:51 2004