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    We now have 5 options.
    They are:
    1) Fortify in Alamo and withstand a large(but considering our numbers, not dangerous) attack.
    2) Attack Pamploma(with 10 units out, victory is all but assured)
    3) Attack the GS stack when it moves, as they must unless the knights go on their on, into the open. It is possible that they will rush their knights straight n to that mountain to atack us the following turn.
    4) Use the 18 riders in alamo to defend and move the TDF(all 12) toward Toledo
    5) A new evil option, let the Gs and rp forces line up on the hills above alamo. Then attack pamploma, raze alamo and march eastward to the sea.

    Lets look at each if these.
    1) This is the safest option.
    30 Riders,2pike,8catapult fortified vs 15 rp(lets just assume they have 10 more offensive unit to make a point) and 19 GS offesnive units. NO contest, we win with approx 11 riders killed. They lose 19. This is actually conservative.(not even considering catapults) the remainder of GS/RP wiped out in ND/Gow counter attack.

    The only problem with this is "Won't GS know they are screwed at some point and call off the attack". I mean after 10 RP units have run into the buzzsaw and they've done 5 and are still seeing an untouched rider, they have to know its hopeless and call off the attack or will they keep thinking "we must be getting to the end" lets were them down. Even in this scenario much damage is done to their forces allowing us to counterattack.

    This attack could take place as early as 300, but if so would be luanched with NO gs MI's. If they wait for that it will be no earlier than 320. This gives us time for option 2.

    2) We attack Pamploma and try to hold Alamo, in many ways this can go with (1) because we can do this right after we are attacked. However we could also do this before the attack, and then rush back to Alamo. I give this liitle more talk since we all know that with 10 units out of Pamploma they have about 10 left in it, and this can't resist a combined GS/GOW attack. but if we do this BEFORE an attack ND must bear the brunt so as to leave Alamo defended

    3) This option is actually very possible if(as I think is possible) Gs splits there stack up. I think the knights will head north to the pike on the mountain and the rest will either head sw onto the hill or actually proceed n onto the desert to support the attack on Alamo. It is also possible they will send the MI/Pikes toward Merida. This is actually my bet. Note this also speeds up the attack on Alamo since the Knights can attack next turn from mountain.

    4) Earlier we had planned on assaulting barcelona andhave the TDF attacking and prowling the area around Toledo. The southern attack seems foolhardy right now. But it still makes sense to run the TDF up north. The could all attack in 300. I am now absolutely sure the big GS force is south of Alamo. It is probable that the TDF could take all the coastal cities with minimal resistance.

    Additionally if more units come out of Pamploma, it and ND forces 10+ could take pamploma with little help from the riders at Alamo.

    Could 18 riders,2pike and 8 catapult hold Alamo. YES, almost certainly. especially if only the knights attack, and we also could quick road and have ND infantry and defensive units hold pamploma. If Gs waits for the MI the equation is less certain but still probably a victory.

    5) The now you see it, know you don't. Our 30 riders let all the attack forces surround them at alamo, and then leave razing the city.

    We destroy roads and take pamploma. Assuming the ND has attacked it first 15 of ours should win. Then the rest rush towards the mountains(attacking any units in the pass, if few).

    They keep advancing(say 10 by now) to the outskirts of New Madrid and toledo(we might not do both, I am hesistant to commit to splitting without knowing the enemy positions).

    Next turn we take those and the Gs port. Due to slow movement the GS super stack is unable to respond, resulting in extreme advantages for us with the isolated Gs units.

    Unortho once said we need to reinforce our unpredicatableness, I say this does that and more.

    Ok, those are the options, what do you think.
    Aggie
    The 5th President, 2nd SMC and 8th VP in the Civ3 Demogame. Also proud member of the GOW team in the PTW game. Peace through superior firepower.

  • #2
    I like 5. It leaves the enemy stranded in the middle of the mountains to enjoy a COLD winter quarters...........

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh dear lord I love #5.

      One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
      You're wierd. - Krill

      An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

      Comment


      • #4
        #5 sounds good .. but..

        ND will have to agree.... Will They ?
        And I need to have a look at the save first (will do it tonight).
        And I will really start to push Beta for a price on an investigation on Pampalona. (He is yet to respond)
        "No Comment"

        Comment


        • #5
          I like option 5 too.
          Staff Member of CDG

          Comment


          • #6
            Option 5 offers a humilliating defeat for RP, however, in a way RP and GS would have to play into our hands for this to be viable.

            I don't think we should commit to 5 without seeing the overall position of GS troops next turn to see what their intention is.
            A true ally stabs you in the front.

            Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Master Zen
              Option 5 offers a humilliating defeat for RP, however, in a way RP and GS would have to play into our hands for this to be viable.

              I don't think we should commit to 5 without seeing the overall position of GS troops next turn to see what their intention is.
              I agree, the great thing about ALL these plans is that they are all the same until we act. Very similar to football where you count how many in a certain zone right before you snap and then decide to pass or run based on how defenders or in that zone.
              Aggie
              The 5th President, 2nd SMC and 8th VP in the Civ3 Demogame. Also proud member of the GOW team in the PTW game. Peace through superior firepower.

              Comment


              • #8
                Plan#6

                I was looking at the map and an idea occured to me.
                If the Gs stack should move anywhere to the w or sw from where they are now, we could rush by them and take Barcelona and the coastal city before they could react. If that went easily we could keep going on toward Toledo.

                The obvious problem with this plan is that it leaves only 10 riders in Alamo. However, if they do decide to attack Alamo, there forces could be destroyed right afterwards.

                The second danger is that I put them on the desert tiles instead of the mountains. This is simply because this gives them extra manueverablity since if we don't take the desert road they will certaily destroy it. Also this way we can take Barcelona the second turn no matter what.

                This goes on the assumption that a sure win is better than a roll of the dice against Pamploma(still a good option though).

                it is also possible that this could a hit and run. meaning we take barcelona, and maybe the coastal city(both on turn 2) and then we bring all the rest of the riders home.

                The red X's or roads I want to destroy. That way they can't pursue as and if we decide to go back to Alamo, the GS forces are cut off from help or resupply.



                Aggie
                The 5th President, 2nd SMC and 8th VP in the Civ3 Demogame. Also proud member of the GOW team in the PTW game. Peace through superior firepower.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What if they have another stack of catapults and knight behind Barcelona and attack us with those troops?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GhengisFarb
                    What if they have another stack of catapults and knight behind Barcelona and attack us with those troops?
                    That is why the desert square scares me. On the otherhand it is rational to assume if they have a force in reserve, it is smaller than the stack we now see. Unfortunately such a stack could be brought to attack regardless where we finally attack(Unless it is the main GS stack we attack).

                    My intuition is that he moved most of his knights into that superstack. We estimated approx 20 knights here(before we destroyed 8,actaully 2 stacks of 8 was my guess so I was low, I assumed symetric troop location)these are all accounted for +2 we didn't expect. If he wants to commit more knights he must send them in by ship. In many ways we face the same quandry we faced when rushing south, will he be getting enough knights to counterattack us immediatly.

                    The desert square is the key for this, from here we can take the port city on the second turn. If he doesn't have such troops on the way, no reiforcements can arrive for him and fight until turn 4.(turn 3 is when they could arrive).

                    A reasonable arguement is this "Why attack at all before our GA is over." I have no answer to this except I feel that most of us want to. For a comparison, when our GA ends in 370(if it ends in 380 add 3 more riders) we will have a total of 63 Riders(58 in the south). Right now we have 35 Riders(30) in the south. I also get the sense that ND wants to attack. Additionally I want to see RP defeated and Pamploma in our hands, in a variant of this plan instead of toward toledo on turn 3, we rush toward the mountian pass near pamploma and next turn either go to the forest near pamploma(moving the catapults that turn to meet us) or atatck pamploma is we are full strength.

                    Also what about WW, I am under the impression that WW is very small in MP, how small and when will we feel it. I neither play MP much and never at this difficulty level. If ww will soon be a problem, we need to eliminate RP to lower it.

                    Aggie
                    The 5th President, 2nd SMC and 8th VP in the Civ3 Demogame. Also proud member of the GOW team in the PTW game. Peace through superior firepower.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If I was GS I would have THREE Knight stacks one closer to Toledo and one N of Barcelona. In which case both stacks could attack our desert Rider stack using their roads.

                      I would prefer to wait and take Pamplona as we know their force is divided and they haven't had a large production base to keep it up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GhengisFarb
                        If I was GS I would have THREE Knight stacks one closer to Toledo and one N of Barcelona. In which case both stacks could attack our desert Rider stack using their roads.

                        I would prefer to wait and take Pamplona as we know their force is divided and they haven't had a large production base to keep it up.
                        Very reasonable, just thought I'd mention it. This is how I usually work(even in real life), I throw out any idea that comes to mind, just to see if perhaps everybody thinks it's better than what we already have.

                        By the way if anybody wants to suggest something, by all means please do so. Also I believe this plan is not even going to be possible, because almost certainly an atatck on Alamo is planned.

                        GS holding the save is a good sign(unless more techincal problems), becasue it means they have decisions to make. Most likely the "do we split the supperstack or do we keep it big and head in one direction. This arguement will be decided by how large they think are forces are. It is even possible that the RP attack has begun and GS is debating how to assist. To be honest if the attack doesn't occur this turn or next, RP will have nothing on that moutain to atatck with. So the clock is running.
                        Aggie
                        The 5th President, 2nd SMC and 8th VP in the Civ3 Demogame. Also proud member of the GOW team in the PTW game. Peace through superior firepower.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Possibly the onlt thing I would like to point out, is that we can never let GS get a hold of the land they are aiming for.

                          Does anyone think it strange that they have bee-lined straight for the only Gunpowder source that they could ever possibly get control of ?
                          A source that they should not know about ?

                          It is possible someone has let them know that they dont have any Saltpepper, and then told them where they could find some.
                          "No Comment"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
                            Does anyone think it strange that they have bee-lined straight for the only Gunpowder source that they could ever possibly get control of ?
                            A source that they should not know about ?
                            I have my own very dark thought about why that might be, but would prefer to keep it to myself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have the same thought. It also would involve their being involved in the war and also their desire to have some"colonies in that area". Their arguement of "not enough tiles doesn't hold water and they of all people know that.

                              I know it is possible they are cheating, but its by no means certain or is there even a proponderece of the evidence suggesting it. What they have done is more conservative that I would have done in their position, but that is also the nature of that team. It doesn't indicate cheating. On the other hand if GS plops a city down on that SP location near barcelona I'm screaming bloody murder.

                              That being said, it is also very possible that they want to get Merida to deny us the Ivory or perhaps to get it for themselves. Also we do not know if they are even planning for merida.

                              The other idea is that somebody on Lego let it slip that they had no Sp. Always possible, but I can't believe it would be a sanctioned release. Unfortunately people do talk though. On the other hand it is possible that somebody from lego has sympathies with RP and wants to help or (much more likely) they think the GS getting SP could make war go on indefinitely and that would give the game to Lego.

                              Regardless, without a port a city there is useless. I don't intend for a port to exist. Obviously it will not be allowed by me to fall. ND also has defensive units rushing to it and it could be held. Regardless, if they take it they will be easy pickings for a counterattack.

                              One thing I want to say. My greatest fear in this war is not having GS invading the north, it is a WWI type stalemate occuring and as you see my strategy is generally aimed at keeping it a mobile war and thus preventing this. This is where GS/RP have erred. They could have fortified those units(with knights as quick reponse force) and held out on the coast indefintely or at least until WW kicked in. In moving westward with such a large force and sending forces to that mountain near Alamo, I believe that RP/GS have seriously miscalculated.
                              Aggie
                              The 5th President, 2nd SMC and 8th VP in the Civ3 Demogame. Also proud member of the GOW team in the PTW game. Peace through superior firepower.

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